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Thread: Are you like me right now

  1. #51
    Step aside, King James BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Would you put your best offensive player on the bench?

    I think people seem to forget the importance of defense. It's not like rebounding, steals, assists, etc. It represents HALF of the game with the other half being offense.

    When you have D Jones subbing for Troy, you have a guy who can score just about as well...and probably better down the stretch. You have a guy who brings a swagger, great passion and toughness to the floor. And of course you bring a guy who can defend the wing better than all the other players on your team, not just better than Troy Murphy.

    Look at it this way. Say Troy and Dahntay can score the same amount per game. Troy might give his man 18-20 points and Dahntay gives up 8-12. That is a huge swing. You combine that with the much greater energy Dahntay brings down the stretch, and there is no comparison.

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  3. #52

    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    The next 7 games will give us great insight into what the team will do this season. But I love the D, and expect great things from TH based on what I've seen so far.

    Miami, Atlanta and Denver are solid teams and most people expected they would be. The teams we beat before Boston look like bottom feeders. In the next stretch of games, we will see if this team can beat the teams it's supposed to beat. We have shown that we can, at least ocassionally, beat upper eschelon teams, like we did last year. The real test will be taking care of business against the teams of the bottom rung. That's something we did not do last year. I have not analyzed the schedule, but if we TCB against the dregs both home and on the road, win at least half of the games against the average teams, and ocassionally knock off some of the top teams, especially at home, we will make the playoffs. I prefer to think that I know this year's team to be capable of this, especially when we are back at full strength. And I am usually not an optimist!

  4. #53
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Would you put your best offensive player on the bench?

    I think people seem to forget the importance of defense. It's not like rebounding, steals, assists, etc. It represents HALF of the game with the other half being offense.

    When you have D Jones subbing for Troy, you have a guy who can score just about as well...and probably better down the stretch. You have a guy who brings a swagger, great passion and toughness to the floor. And of course you bring a guy who can defend the wing better than all the other players on your team, not just better than Troy Murphy.

    Look at it this way. Say Troy and Dahntay can score the same amount per game. Troy might give his man 18-20 points and Dahntay gives up 8-12. That is a huge swing. You combine that with the much greater energy Dahntay brings down the stretch, and there is no comparison.
    Yes, there is no comparison if Dahntay's scoring stays to form and Troy stays in a slump. Dahntay needs to prove his scoring is not a fluke for him to earn the playing time the way you say it is. Let is also ignore rebounding and passing as you stated (lol Murphy has more assists than Jones)

  5. #54
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    As far as one of the original questions posed by UB, on whether or not the defense is better.

    YES!

    I don't see the scrambling rotations like there were in the first few games, and going back into the past seasons. Whether or not that has to do with Watson and D Jones or not, I would say partially.

    I think JOb has toned down some things on both ends. The offense is much more deliberate as well. Thsoe two things combined leads me to believe he has cut back on the pace a bit.

    I don't think it can be overstated how important it's been having guards in Watson, D Jones, and Rush being able to keep their man out of the paint is. It just makes everything easier.

  6. #55
    Member PaceBalls's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    I don't usually necro threads, but I thought this was interesting to see what everyone was thinking about our team before the wheels fell off the wagon. Before the 5 game win streak became the legend that it is, and everyone had drawn their lines in the sand about if it was a fluke, if our team is good or bad, if Murph really is the root of all basketball evil...

    One interesting point was the wells tweet in which Jim says..

    Wells222

    O'Brien on if he'll start Murphy when he's healthy: "It’s tough to go away from a group that’s 4-0." Pacers are 4-0 w/o T-Murph

    I think it was a bit too easy for him, not tough at all. What is tough is not going back to that group after it all went to hell.

  7. #56
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Another strange variable is the few number of games the Pacers have played to date. They have had plenty of practice and rest time between games. 3 straight homes games over a 12 day period is just strange and that is not normal - so I would caution anyone from reading too much into these past few games. To be a good team or to be even a .500 team you have to win when the schedule isn't so kind.

    Pacers have played 7 games.

    Celtics have played 11 - that IMO was a factor Saturday night.

    The only other team in the NBA who has played 7 games is the Bucks and they are 5-2 (that has helped them)

    In fact only 1 team has played only 8 games (Spurs)

    All the other teams have played at least 9 games. (in fact only 5 teams have played 9 games.


    Starting Tuesday night the pacers go 11 days without more than 1 day off they play 7 games (prior to the west coast trip) but several games are very winnable. Knicks, Nets, Bobcats, Clips - all very winnable and I'm not even counting the Raptors, Cavs or Mavs

    This is another important variable that greatly helped the Pacers win 5 straight games. Somthing that is never brought up , but IMO it was a very important factor in the good play or at least the winning play

  8. #57
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This is another important variable that greatly helped the Pacers win 5 straight games. Somthing that is never brought up , but IMO it was a very important factor in the good play or at least the winning play
    True. Because if our team was truly good enough to beat the Celtics then we would be able to beat teams like the Magic.

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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  9. #58
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    True. Because if our team was truly good enough to beat the Celtics then we would be able to beat teams like the Magic.

    [/green]
    OK, no, but the Celtics were dead tired when the Pacers beat them and the Pacers were very well rested because of so few games leading up to the Celtics game. That was a factor in the win - the Celtics were not at their best

    I don't understand your point or sarcasm. Pacers have beat the Magic and Celtics at home that is a fact. Magic and Celtics are both better teams than the pacers, that is a fact (evidenced by their overall won/loss record) Those are the only two above .500 teams the pacers have beaten all season.

    The Magic are really struggling right now as evidenced by losing at home to the Raptors last night.

    The schedule is what it is, but the pacers played these two teams "at the right time"

  10. #59
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The schedule is what it is, but the pacers played these two teams "at the right time"
    But a win is a win, right?

  11. #60
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    OK, no, but the Celtics were dead tired when the Pacers beat them and the Pacers were very well rested because of so few games leading up to the Celtics game. That was a factor in the win - the Celtics were not at their best

    I don't understand your point or sarcasm. Pacers have beat the Magic and Celtics at home that is a fact. Magic and Celtics are both better teams than the pacers, that is a fact (evidenced by their overall won/loss record) Those are the only two above .500 teams the pacers have beaten all season.

    The Magic are really struggling right now as evidenced by losing at home to the Raptors last night.

    The schedule is what it is, but the pacers played these two teams "at the right time"
    You are going to gargantuan, ridiculous extremes to justify your opposition to the fact that the line up that JOS uses only because of injuries is, in fact, a winning line up.

    I think you've gone bonkers.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  12. #61
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    You are going to gargantuan, ridiculous extremes to justify your opposition to the fact that the line up that JOS uses only because of injuries is, in fact, a winning line up.

    I think you've gone bonkers.
    "Winning lineup" compared to what. As I have said before the lineup may have better chemistry, might play a more fun style to watch, might play a more exciting style, we all might like it because we don't have to watch Troy and TJ - but a "winning lineup" I ask compared to what. Are they better than the lineup we don't like - there isn't enough evidence to really know. Josh, Price has just started playing a few games. They didn't play during the 5 game stretch in November. What if the pacers use Murphy and they win at about a .400% rate.

    Get back with me in about 20 games and I'll tell you what is the most "winning lineup" we can put on the floor.

  13. #62
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    "Winning lineup" compared to what.
    Well, we could start with comparing the games where Murphy and/or Foster start versus the games they don't.

    I'm guessing you'll find a terrible losing percentage when they start, and a strong "winning" record when they don't.

    There are similar comparisons to make with TJ, but you'd probably need to compare large versus smaller minutes. But that controversy is over, imo, as JOB has finally seen the light on that issue.
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 01-07-2010 at 01:02 PM.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  14. #63
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Well, we could start with comparing the games where Murphy and/or Foster start versus the games they don't.

    I'm guessing you'll find a terrible losing percentage when they start, and a strong "winning" record when they don't.

    There are similar comparisons to make with TJ, but you'd probably need to compare large versus smaller minutes. But that controversy is over, imo, as JOB has finally seen the light on that issue.
    So you think JOB is not playing Ford, Foster and Murphy because he thinks by not playing them they have a better chance of winning? We'll see how many minutes Murphy gets here when he is healthy. How do we factor in the games that Hans and Murph have both been out - does that count against Tyler. The won/loss record with and without out Ford is at the very least inconclusive.

  15. #64

    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So you think JOB is not playing Ford, Foster and Murphy because he thinks by not playing them they have a better chance of winning? We'll see how many minutes Murphy gets here when he is healthy. How do we factor in the games that Hans and Murph have both been out - does that count against Tyler. The won/loss record with and without out Ford is at the very least inconclusive.
    Well, JOB said he's going with Watson and Price because it gave the Pacers a better chance to win, the first time he did it.

  16. #65
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So you think JOB is not playing Ford, Foster and Murphy because he thinks by not playing them they have a better chance of winning?
    I can't believe I'm responding to each of these odd points, but it's snowing outside so why not.

    Do you really not get it, or are you just being difficult?

    JOB does not play Foster and Murphy because they are injured. It doesn't really matter whether "he thinks by not playing them they have a better chance of winning." Of course, he doesn't think that. But, in fact, it seems we do.

    Forget about what's in JOB's head. The results are pretty clear that we play better when other players besides Ford, Murphy and Foster get starters minutes. I hope this is clear regarding your "odd" question: "So you think JOB is not playing Ford, Foster, and Murphy because he thinks by not playing them they have a better chance of winning?" It's a weird question.

    He's benched Ford, not because of injury, but because its become so clear how bad he is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    We'll see how many minutes Murphy gets here when he is healthy.
    Are you expecting a lot of minutes or fewer? I can't tell what you mean by this.

    I think it will be the same amount of minutes. I hope and pray for fewer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    How do we factor in the games that Hans and Murph have both been out - does that count against Tyler.
    Forget about Tyler. We're not talking about him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The won/loss record with and without out Ford is at the very least inconclusive.
    Not according to most members around here, and not according to JOB, apparently.

    Are you sharing painkillers with Dunleavy?
    Last edited by McKeyFan; 01-07-2010 at 02:08 PM.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  17. #66

    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    So you think JOB is not playing Ford, Foster and Murphy because he thinks by not playing them they have a better chance of winning? We'll see how many minutes Murphy gets here when he is healthy. How do we factor in the games that Hans and Murph have both been out - does that count against Tyler. The won/loss record with and without out Ford is at the very least inconclusive.
    I think we are 3-1 without Ford

    Lost huge to NY but beat ORL, Min, and GSW

    I think it's pretty clear from watching the team, that chemistry and offense is better with Watson and Price on the floor.

  18. #67
    Member owl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Murphy getting minutes does not necessarily mean OB thinks that is his best chance
    to win. Maybe it is for trade purposes.
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  19. #68
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    Murphy getting minutes does not necessarily mean OB thinks that is his best chance
    to win. Maybe it is for trade purposes.
    It would be contrary to everything Jim has ever said about Murph.

    About the 5 game win streak and the badness that followed. I think it was more about Murph playing the 4 than anyone else on the team holding us down. A case could be made that Jr. is hurting us. The problem with our lineup is that Murph is a bad fit with everyone on the team, maybe he is decent with Foster, but Jeff has been out most of the season. Putting Murph out there with Hibbert is just terrible, add in Jr. to that lineup and we lose everygame almost guaranteed.

    I think TJ can still be good for us with the right guys on the floor. To me, the key to the bad play is Murph.

  20. #69
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    The next few weeks will tell the tale. It is a very fragile time right now. I half expect to hear the four thuds and the screech when the wheels fall off. I have seen a lot better chemistry and effort recently...Less the NY beatdown.
    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
    "But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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