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Thread: Are you like me right now

  1. #1
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Are you like me right now

    This is going to be really short.

    Before the season started I predicted that I had no real feel for what the Pacers team was going to be. I predicted 37 wins, but admittedly, that was pure speculation based more on the past few seasons and then just picking a number out of thin air. But I told myself maybe after a few weeks I would be able to have a clue.

    OK, three weeks in and I still have no idea what this team is. Is it a team on the brink of disaster as it looked after games 2 and 3 this season or are they the solid team they have shown signs of being in the past 4 games?

    Has the defense really improved?

    What will happen if and when Troy, Dunleavy and Foster come back?

    Maybe Granger should play power forward full time?

    How can D. Jones possibly not be on the floor for at least 30 minutes every game?

    Overall I still have no idea what this team is - they are different, tougher, better defensively (I think) but are they any better - I don't know.

    I cannot figure this team out
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 11-16-2009 at 09:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This is going to be really short.

    Before the season started I predicted that I had no real feel for what the Pacers team was going to be. I predicted 37 wins, but admittedly, that was pure speculation based more on the past few seasons and then just picking a number out of thin air. But I told myself maybe after a few weeks I would be able to have a clue.

    OK, three weeks in and I still have no idea what this team is. Is it a team on the brink of disaster as it looked after games 2 and 3 this season or are they the solid team they have shown signs of being in the past 4 games?

    Has the defense really improved?

    What will happen if and when Troy, Dunleavy and Foster come back?

    Maybe Granger should play power forward full time?

    How can D. Jones possibly not be on the floor for at least 30 minutes every game?

    Overall I still have no idea what this team is - they are different, tougher, better defensively (I think) but are they any better - I don't know.
    Not a lot of time for the other points, but I hated the starting lineup of Ford-Jones-Rush-Granger-Hibbert. Now, I love it. It just works at the start of the game when the players have the most energy.

    When Murphy's back, I wouldn't hate to see him come off the bench.

    I think Jones should get the start over Rush (and Dunleavy once he's back). If that doesn't work, or if Rush/Dunleavy outplays Jones, then mix it up. But I think Jones should start, and even if he doesn't, should play the majority of the minutes in the 2nd half. It just feels like his presence on the floor has been the reason the team hasn't collapsed in the 2nd half like they used to - although they may just be an improved team, and I may just be looking for a reason for the switch in dynamics.

    No idea what this team is. An early indication may be the game against NJ. If this is the same shaky team from last year, then we'll lose inexplicably. If we're over the hump, we'll handle them. Though, nothing is ever set in stone.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    This is going to be really short.

    Before the season started I predicted that I had no real feel for what the Pacers team was going to be. I predicted 37 wins, but admittedly, that was pure speculation based more on the past few seasons and then just picking a number out of thin air. But I told myself maybe after a few weeks I would be able to have a clue.

    OK, three weeks in and I still have no idea what this team is. Is it a team on the brink of disaster as it looked after games 2 and 3 this season or are they the solid team they have shown signs of being in the past 4 games?

    Has the defense really improved?

    What will happen if and when Troy, Dunleavy and Foster come back?

    Maybe Granger should play power forward full time?

    How can D. Jones possibly not be on the floor for at least 30 minutes every game?

    Overall I still have no idea what this team is - they are different, tougher, better defensively (I think) but are they any better - I don't know.
    This is the question that I keep asking. Is it a coincidence that we are 4-0 without Murphy this season? I want to think adding those guys will strengthen us, but I almost don't want them to come back.

    I just wonder how much our defense will struggle with Murph/Dun in there.

    I'm not sure I have a firm grasp on what this team is yet, either. I think tomorrow's game with New Jersey will show me something. This is the type of "trap" game that we have always seemed to struggle with. I'd like to see that same passion we had Friday night every game night, but I'm not sure that is possible in an 82 game season.

    Edit: I promise I didn't read the post above before I posted, but yeah, what he said.
    Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    I will probly get lynched for saying this, but "no Murphy" makes things way better for this team IMO, despite his good stats. I have been saying this for a couple years, he is a false positive. Dont get me wrong, i like the guy, but i just dont think he can ever play on a winning team, while being a big part of the offense and playing time. Reason being, he is just too slow on defense, and keying him in on the offense messes things up for our real playmakers, who can break down the other teams defense. The offense gets stagnated too often. Kind of like what Shaq has done to Phoenix' and now Cleveland's offenses. Especially with JOB's wide open, run'n'gun, shoot em up 3 pointer offense.

    I understand with his salary, he has to play, but us Pacer fans want W's.

    I just wish they could find him in supporting roll on the rotation that is starting right now. Maybe 10 minutes a game coming off the bench (taking Solo's minutes, not Han's minutes), he could make more of a difference, IMO.

    EDIT: ditto to reading the post above. LOL

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    I am always absolutely certain about the future.

    Absolutely certain that I don't know much about it, that is.

    So, yes, this season still looks like a roller coaster ride to me. That's the fun of it.

    As to Murphy, I believe that O'Brien is a good enough coach to adapt the game plan to best use his players. Murphy is an asset, and his return will be a plus for the team.


    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBaby33
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    keying him in on the offense messes things up for our real playmakers, who can break down the other teams defense.
    The trailing shot from the top that Murphy made so often last year is as fine an example of that as you could ask for. His slowness was not a liability.
    Last edited by Putnam; 11-16-2009 at 09:03 AM.
    And I won't be here to see the day
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by smj887 View Post
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    Not a lot of time for the other points, but I hated the starting lineup of Ford-Jones-Rush-Granger-Hibbert. Now, I love it. It just works at the start of the game when the players have the most energy.
    Our most effective lineup so far is not TJ/Rush/Jones/Granger/Hibbert, but WATSON/Rush/Jones/Granger/Hibbert.

    I think at this point if Larry can move Trophy and TJ for anything at all he should do it.

    EDIT: Of course, I've been saying that since the beginning of LAST season.
    Last edited by Anthem; 11-16-2009 at 09:13 AM.
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  10. #7
    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Tomorrow ??? All i know it better be better then today and a LOT better then yesterday, but that is where my insight ends.

    I had silent hope and so far am pretty sure it worked out well;

    1. DG being better again
    2. Rush coming along (My sweet Lord, what a defender!)
    3. Hibbert becoming our Bynum (I actually think he can be better, he no have the attitude)
    4. We'd start playing defense :P

    On the other hand I don't understand (other then hope) what ppl rave about Tyler, to me he is as hopeless a case and one-trick-pony as McBob and I think that his "schtik" has a short life. What mainly bothers me is his attitude, so don't try and convince me he is such a talent, he proclaims himself to be that already, but so far has proven nothing.
    When a rookie is talking about how he feels is he much more then a one dimensional player and feels he has a good face up jumper (if he can get it of without being blocked) and inside game (if he can get the ball up without being blocked) then i start puking a bit.
    If anything he was exposed in the Celtics game, badly, which reflected on his playing time.
    A Foster type player? with offense??? he has a loooong way to go to even get close, same goes for McBob. they both are miles and years from contributing.

    Did anyone see those jumpers from Rush that capped our run ??
    Not to mention his defense, how he was chasing Allen around, incredible, a joy to see.

    Hibbert gonna be a monster, sooner rather then later!

    That 3 that gonna cost us dearly in a few years, and will make us look very very hard for "cheap" supporting cast, as there is no way that Rush and Hibbert going to be "cheap" once their rookie contracts are over
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


  11. #8
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    The best defensive team the Pacers have, has been on the floor the last 3-4 games and they are winning.

    They've won the boards, too, I believe. So the loss of Murphy amounts to this, he can hit the 3 and a team cannot leave him alone out there. If an opposition game plans for Murphy they can basically make him completely a non factor on offense, other than it brings a defender away from the basket. All an opposing team has to do though is this. Opposing team can even guard Murphy with a smaller player and accomplish this.

    Murphy is improved defensively, but not as good as Danny or Solomon at the PF position. He's a great defensive rebounder, but the those rebounds are still being gotten.

    Now Murphy does have value, but I'd like to see it in limited minutes and more as a speciality, like his skills indicate.

    Murph is really good at one thing, shooting the 3 and average at many other things.

    He'd never be that effective in a playoff series, as the opposing team would just completely nullify him.

    It will interesting to see what happens. They have a chance to win 6 in a row, that would be pretty amazing, but like Buck, I'm not sure what we have yet, at all.

    I do know that defense rarely has an off night though. Toughness, both physically and mentally, don't wane.

    I do know I really like what I see, right now.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Tyler is playing well. He has hit the face up jumper, already. He does get blocked, but that is the price you pay for being aggressive and trying to get to the line. It puts pressure on a defense. He will dial it back a bit and pick his spots, I'm sure. He knocks people down. He runs the floor very well. He causes balls to be tipped on offensive rebounds. He's really just a general nuisance. Regardless of some of the negatives as he's figuring things out, he's a tremendous spark and a great physical presence. The opposition won't like playing against him, that says alot, to me.

    He has warts, but he should. None of his warts are a product of ommission, they are of the commission variety. I can absolutely live with that.

    He's light years ahead of McBob on both ends. He's a better offensive player right now than Jeff has been in his career.

    He's got a ways to go, but I really like what he brings to the table. He's not scared and he plays very hard, what's not to like.

    A powerful Power Forward, give me some of that!

    Just my opinion, of course.
    Last edited by Speed; 11-16-2009 at 10:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    The true test of where our team is will come against the next two opponents, back to back, in the woeful Nets followed by a Knick team that is only marginally better. These are two teams that we now should have reasonable expectations of beating. If we do so, and handily, we will have begun to show some cohesiveness and maturity that will begin to separate us from the last several seasons. Otherwise, we are still probably a struggling young team that still is trying to adjust to each other.

    If we don't sink back to that level, we will have shown progress. I am still not sure of that yet. Our performance against the C's was good for about 2 1/2 to 3 quarters, but had it not been for Pierce being visibly hurt and Allen not having lift on his shots late due to having lost some of his stamina in the fourth because of the back to back, that outcome could just as easily been reversed or more.

    I had predicted 37 wins, also, and am not sure whether that was too low or not. If we are actually showing true improvement here, our off season acquisitions are responsible for it, most surprisingly from Watson and his outstanding play at the point, and Dahntay who, while still making a lot of mistakes due to his aggressiveness on both ends of the floor, appears to be providing floor leadership that may end up replacing that which we lost when we lost JJack to free agency. Solo has even provided some help and at times solid play, though he still basically disappears in a lot of cases.

    I guess I am cautiously optimistic, but it still feels like there are still some pieces of sky strewn about on the ground that have yet to be cleaned up from the preseason and first three games of the regular season that we only wish had been part of the preseason.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    I'm very similar to Unclebuck on this. I predicted 34 wins, thought if things went well they could go .500 or so, but assumed injuries and some other variable(s) would mess it up and leave them taking a step back (from last year).

    Didn't know what to expect as the season started. I was surprised by the awful start. I am surprised by this nice rebound. I have no idea what happens next. Not just because we don't know if this can be sustained by the current group, but we don't know what adding Troy and Mike will do to it.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    On the other hand I don't understand (other then hope) what ppl rave about Tyler, to me he is as hopeless a case and one-trick-pony as McBob and I think that his "schtik" has a short life. What mainly bothers me is his attitude, so don't try and convince me he is such a talent, he proclaims himself to be that already, but so far has proven nothing.
    When a rookie is talking about how he feels is he much more then a one dimensional player and feels he has a good face up jumper (if he can get it of without being blocked) and inside game (if he can get the ball up without being blocked) then i start puking a bit.
    If anything he was exposed in the Celtics game, badly, which reflected on his playing time.
    A Foster type player? with offense??? he has a loooong way to go to even get close, same goes for McBob. they both are miles and years from contributing.
    A. He's a rookie,ie up and down games
    B. We haven't lost since he began playing.....

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    I've never thought of TH having an attitude problem, whatsoever. I hope he's confident and doesn't think he's not one dimensional. I think a bad attitude would be to say you can do some of those things and then not work hard, I don't see that as an issue with him.

    Did I miss an interview or something where he was talking smack?

    Again, I'll live with him getting his shot block 2 or 3 times a game if he's going to get to the line at a nice rate. Getting to the line has been one of the biggest problems with the recent Pacers teams. Aggressiveness in general really.
    Last edited by Speed; 11-16-2009 at 10:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
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    A. He's a rookie,ie up and down games
    B. We haven't lost since he began playing.....
    We also haven't lost since the Kohl's I work at started playing Christmas music. Just because two things are happening at the same time doesn't mean it's because of one thing that the other is happening. Now Bro Hands has played better than I expected, but he isn't the main reason we've been winning.

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  22. #15
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Another strange variable is the few number of games the Pacers have played to date. They have had plenty of practice and rest time between games. 3 straight homes games over a 12 day period is just strange and that is not normal - so I would caution anyone from reading too much into these past few games. To be a good team or to be even a .500 team you have to win when the schedule isn't so kind.

    Pacers have played 7 games.

    Celtics have played 11 - that IMO was a factor Saturday night.

    The only other team in the NBA who has played 7 games is the Bucks and they are 5-2 (that has helped them)

    In fact only 1 team has played only 8 games (Spurs)

    All the other teams have played at least 9 games. (in fact only 5 teams have played 9 games.


    Starting Tuesday night the pacers go 11 days without more than 1 day off they play 7 games (prior to the west coast trip) but several games are very winnable. Knicks, Nets, Bobcats, Clips - all very winnable and I'm not even counting the Raptors, Cavs or Mavs
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 11-16-2009 at 10:35 AM.

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    Professional Beachcomber mildlysane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Pig Nash View Post
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    We also haven't lost since the Kohl's I work at started playing Christmas music. Just because two things are happening at the same time doesn't mean it's because of one thing that the other is happening. Now Bro Hands has played better than I expected, but he isn't the main reason we've been winning.
    Come on now, clearly his presence has been felt and his energy/enthusiasm has been contagious. Yeah, other factors have been involved in this streak, but to dismiss his contributions as equal to you working at Kohl's is a bit much.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Maybe we'll never lose again, if Tyler is playing!

    WOW!

    Really, I like his attitude, and what he brings. I think he'll work out, if all he ever brings is rebounds, mid-range jumpers, aggressiveness to the hoop that gets foul shots. I don't see what else we could ask of a rook PF. He's going to be made to look like a rookie now and then, yes.

    To the main question...I don't see us reverting to games 1-3 behavior. That was a 'get to know you' period. The chemistry will continue to gel. The team will continue to master the defensive schemes. Will we go 79-3? Probably not, huh? But, it sure looks to me like at least a few games better than last year. That's playoffs.

    Assuming injuries don't screw us up.

    Assuming players coming off injuries don't screw us up.

    What we need to see is how we do against the middle tier of the East. We haven't played any of them yet....each game has been against bottom feeders or contenders. Let's see how we do vs Detroit, Chicago, Charlotte, Milwaukee, etc. Those are our rivals for the playoff spot.
    [~]) ... Cheers! Go Pacers!

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    Grumpy Old Man (PD host) able's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    There was an interview with him in one of the games, recorded, in which he was clearly stating what HE wanted and I see that confirmed in his play, the ball ends with him, it don't go anywhere else anymore, no matter the outcome.

    That, IMO, is very worrying in a rook and i personally don't listen to this "spark" stuff, so is McBob, but ANY player on the team should play with 110% intensity.
    Jumping over and on top of people will usually cost you fouls and not get you any, going up with a lot of arms around you may give you fouls, but also blocks, if as you say he can get blocked 3 times a night on a max of 10 attempts that is 30% out, then shooting 50% will still only generate you 35% total makes.

    Yes he had "nice" numbers his 1st 2 games, lost less the last game, I know he is a rook, humble would suit him much better, we have had enough experience with "I" players, and black holes on offense.

    I wont even start discussin his defense because honestly I think he just gets in the way of our own players.
    So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by mildlysane View Post
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    Come on now, clearly his presence has been felt and his energy/enthusiasm has been contagious. Yeah, other factors have been involved in this streak, but to dismiss his contributions as equal to you working at Kohl's is a bit much.
    I didn't equate them, I was making an example. I said he'd been playing well but he wasn't the "main" factor. Danny Granger and Roy Hibbert have played the best and I think the player most responsible for the attitude on the team is Dahntay Jones.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I think at this point if Larry can move Trophy and TJ for anything at all he should do it.
    If we are going to trade Troy, I would much rather wait a year to do it. His value will be be much higher as an expiring contract.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Our most effective lineup so far is not TJ/Rush/Jones/Granger/Hibbert, but WATSON/Rush/Jones/Granger/Hibbert.
    Yeah, I meant Watson. Ford was just in my mind I guess.

    I wouldn't mind seeing a starting lineup of Watson/Rush/Jones/Granger/Hibbert with a second unit revolving around Ford and Murphy. There are a lot of pieces at this team's disposal, I'm honestly kind of worried that the returns of Murph/Foster/Dunleavy will shake up the rotation too much. This team has serious depth, JOB just needs to make the most of it. I think going with that starting five and subbing in Solomon or Murphy to the power forward and sliding Granger to small forward would work. That way Dahntay starts, gets subbed out for Murphy, then comes in with the second unit.

    It'll be interesting to see how all of it plays out.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Pacers are in trouble if Troy doesn't come back and play pretty close to last years mark. Can't afford to have Granger play the 4 all year long. Not his position, and shouldn't be.

    I do think the defense has improved. You can't make excuses like Pierce was hobbled and Ray Allen played back to backs. Its early in the season, under 10 games in. No player is actually tired yet. If it was that big a problem for Boston you would have seen them give it to Garnett way more. They have gotten a ton of deflections in these 4 wins. And Rush is playing out of his mind defensively right now. He caught up to Allen on every screen and denied the open drive and 3 pter. Way different Pacers team that last season. D Jones is the second best player on this team by far. Should be most improved player of the year candidate.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    There was an interview with him in one of the games, recorded, in which he was clearly stating what HE wanted and I see that confirmed in his play, the ball ends with him, it don't go anywhere else anymore, no matter the outcome.

    That, IMO, is very worrying in a rook and i personally don't listen to this "spark" stuff, so is McBob, but ANY player on the team should play with 110% intensity.
    He plays within the offense in the recorded games I watched. Sure your not watching a UNC game? One-on-one in the post your supposed to finish the play. PLEASE STOP comparing him to McBob because of energy. That's twice now and it's a logical fallacy to argue that based on energy. Tyler owned McBob in college, and he will own him today. McBob is the greatest 12th man you can ask for. Give Tyler a chance he IS a rookie. Confidence isn't really a problem either. Rush and Ford suffer from a lack of confidence at times.

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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by able View Post
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    There was an interview with him in one of the games, recorded, in which he was clearly stating what HE wanted and I see that confirmed in his play, the ball ends with him, it don't go anywhere else anymore, no matter the outcome.
    Totally disagree. I've watched every minute he has played, and I think he's passed the ball too much.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

  36. #25
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are you like me right now

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Totally disagree. I've watched every minute he has played, and I think he's passed the ball too much.
    If you normalize the minutes Tyler's assists are about the same as Solomon Jones but about half as many as Murphy's were before he went out. That tells me that he is in fact passing the ball, whether it is too much or not remains to be seen. I think as his style gets figured out he'll need to do more passing.

    Considering that he is meant to be an in-the-lane scoring PF rather than a trail-and-distribute/shoot PF like Troy, I think he's doing fine.

    What I keep seeing is that teams are forced to double him, so if he CAN in fact pass more he becomes even more valuable.
    BillS

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