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Thread: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

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    Default Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Since a lot of you may not be too familiar with Dahntay Jones, here are a few video clips from the Pacers/Nuggets game from 3/1/09. Even in a small amount of clips, I think you'll get an idea of what to expect.

    Clip 1:

    Cutting to the hoop early in the game. Makes an 'awareness' play and shows his ability to finish at the rim. He's not a great cutter, but neither was Stephen Graham before O'Brien started running plays for him. Since they are similar athletically, I hope O'Brien uses similar plays for Jones



    Clip 2:

    One-on-one defense vs. TJ Ford. Dahntay spent most of his first half play guarding TJ Ford. He does a great job staying in front of TJ on this play. He'll be the only player on the roster (as it is now) that can stay in front of quick point guards. His work on Chris Paul was great in the playoffs.

    At the end of the play though, you do see a breakdown in the pick and roll. Not sure if it's Nene or Dahntay that makes the mistake on this play, but I think it's Dahntay. This may be an issue if he struggles to learn our "system"



    Clip 3:

    Jumpshot. Don't let his 3FG% last year fool you. He's not a good shooter. Though his % was higher, I felt more confident that Marquis' shot would go in than Dahntay's. Then again, just about every Pacer (not named Marquis) has really improved their outside shot within the past three years.



    Clip 4:

    More defense on TJ Ford. I think he does an OK job on pnr defense, but his recovery and block on TJ are great. Have I mentioned I love his defense?



    Clip 5:

    WEIGHTROOM!



    Clip 6:

    Dahntay mixing it up with TJ. Watch the top of the screen for the entire sequence. Jones starts with a hard bump and then rides Ford to the half court line. A little later, another hard bump that causes Ford to shove him

    Jones got into Ford's head, Ford gets the technical, Jones gets the foul. I think he's similar to Rodman in this way.

    Btw, Ford's first tweet about his new teammate said this "Congrats to my boy Dontay Jones.. Been cool for 7yrs.. Let's go Pacers.. Need my $ for that tech last yr..lol"



    Clip 7

    Sequence following technical. On one hand, I think Ford scores his only 2 points of the quarter on this play, and I think he's nearly scoreless because of Dahntay's defense.

    On the other hand, Dahntay gave up on this play. I really don't like to see that.



    Clip 8

    Not working too hard on the pick and roll here. Not sure if we was tired or not, but with his aggressiveness he should've easily made it to Jack. Instead, Jack's got the open look.



    Clip 9

    Jones with another nice finish near the rim. He won't score a lot, and I expect a lot of his buckets to be plays like this.



    Clip 10

    More defense on Ford. He basically shuts Ford down on this play. Any time your SG can shut down one of the quickest PGs in the league, he's bordering on elite defender status (at least on the ball).



    Clip 11

    Another breakdown on defense. Not 100% sure, but again I think it's Dahntay that should've rotated to a wide-open Jack. Jones doesn't appear to fully grasp Nuggets team defense, which isn't that great.



    Clip 12

    Nothing spectacular here, but he finds Martin for a nice assist. This play happened (imo) because Jones' quickness froze all of the Pacers defenders on this play (esp. after that first dunk).



    Clip 13

    This clip represents almost all of his positive attributes in one series. He starts off with good defense and a block off of TJ's back which he brings down to the other end and makes a graceful spin move for an easy layup. You get to see his defense, quickness, and athleticism. He's not a point guard, but he's a decent ballhandler and has a knack for freezing the defense. With his athleticism, he has the ability break down defenses in a completely different way than Marquis. Marquis is still more effective (one of the better in the game), but I think we can use Dahntay more effectively than Denver because of our system.



    Clip 14

    Slightly funny. Dahntay reminding Troy that he's in the game. It's great to keep trying because it will eventually p*ss off your opponent. I love Troy's cranky response, followed by Dahntay's next attempt.



    Clip 15

    Another one . Nothing big here, but he slaps Brandon Rush on an inbounds play. The Pacers were sorely needing a punk on their team, and they definitely got one.



    Clip 16

    Dahntay is guarding Stephen Graham on this play. Like a lot of very quick and athletic players, Dahntay drifts too far off of Graham, allowing Graham a wide open look. My suspicion is that guys like Dahntay had always been able to recover defensively in high school and a little in college, and thus never learned to break a bad habit of over-relying on athleticism. We need him to fix this.



    Clip 17

    Not fighting through a screen. I've seen Granger do this when he's fatigued. I hope Dahntay's just tired here because he has to fight through these.



    Clip 18

    Can't end on a bad play, so here's the last good one. Jones quickly slides in front of Jack in transition. Jack is surprised to see Dahntay there, and travels. This is a very nice transition defense play. I think Dahntay improves our transition defense because he has such an advantage over most of the league with his athleticism.

    Last edited by imawhat; 07-10-2009 at 12:11 PM.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Very nice, imawhat.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Nice set of clips. It makes me feel even more optimistic about his signing and the way he plays.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Good montage. If you are right about his recovery and closeout, then I feel he is in the same boat with the rest of the team. They all struggle with closing out and finishing a defensive set.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Wow, just wow. He looks like a chance taking individual on the ball defender who has no clue about team defense and who also only scores on offense because teams choose to leave him open, which even our poor defensive team was doing.

    We really are paying this guy $11M over 4 years (no way he opts out of the 4th if this is all he can do)? Exactly how desperate are we, anyway?

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Wow, just wow. He looks like a chance taking individual on the ball defender who has no clue about team defense and who also only scores on offense because teams choose to leave him open, which even our poor defensive team was doing.

    We really are paying this guy $11M over 4 years (no way he opts out of the 4th if this is all he can do)? Exactly how desperate are we, anyway?
    Wow accentuate the weaknesses much to make a point.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    I really don't want to be negative. This is the first move in what I call the "Bird era" (the last couple of years) that I have truly questioned.

    I really hope that this particular game is the worst possible example of how he actually plays, but with the reputation for dirty play that he supposedly carries, IDK. The Pacers need to improve, not overpay for someone who looks like a practice player whose best defensive tactics, from this game at least, seem to be getting in opponents heads by getting away with messing with other player's minds by knocking them offstride or interfering with their overall flows within the game by pushing off, riding them with constant fouling away from officials, or slapping them when they are away from the ball and he is less likely to be caught.

    Now on the "Now What" thread I read that he may be coming off shoulder surgery and may not be ready at the start of the season. It seems like it is no wonder Denver chose to let him go. This may well be sour grapes on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they upgrade to Marquis for about $4.5M for 2 years or so.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Denver can't afford that contract of Marquis. I would be surprised if Denver did not offer a 2 year deal to Jones. I hate the length, but the price is not that bad for a defensive ace. And even if Jones' struggles in rotational defense, he still is a great defender.

    But who am I kidding. Jones may be a totally different player here. We just do not know until he plays. How long did it take for Murphy to be worth 80% of his contract? It takes time to get acquainted with the coach, system, and teammates.

    We are all so quick to make a verdict on PD (both sides), when in actuality we have no clue how it is going to pan out. We can make assumptions, but we should never make ascertains before a game is played.

    I think the contract is lengthy, but with the available players and the need, I am not saying that this deal is horrible. Now if Jones flops majorly.....

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Clip 1 really shows how poor our team defense was last season. Why would Jack switch on Kenyon Martin when Murphy is right behind him? Jack just blew that assignment. Smart play by Jones to notice the lane before Jack could rotate back.

    Also, when you break it down like this it's even more evident how much Melo does for the Nuggets offense. He really makes everything easier for the rest of the team.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    I really don't want to be negative. This is the first move in what I call the "Bird era" (the last couple of years) that I have truly questioned.

    I really hope that this particular game is the worst possible example of how he actually plays, but with the reputation for dirty play that he supposedly carries, IDK. The Pacers need to improve, not overpay for someone who looks like a practice player whose best defensive tactics, from this game at least, seem to be getting in opponents heads by getting away with messing with other player's minds by knocking them offstride or interfering with their overall flows within the game by pushing off, riding them with constant fouling away from officials, or slapping them when they are away from the ball and he is less likely to be caught.

    Now on the "Now What" thread I read that he may be coming off shoulder surgery and may not be ready at the start of the season. It seems like it is no wonder Denver chose to let him go. This may well be sour grapes on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if they upgrade to Marquis for about $4.5M for 2 years or so.
    I understand your concern. I share some of the same concerns, but I am not getting too worried about a relatively insignificant contract given to a role player. If we grossly overpaid and this was something that was going to handicap us in making future moves, then I'd be concerned. But really, it's a relatively small contract and he definitely brings some things to the table we need. It's simply not a move I could have a really strong feeling about. In general, I like it. Am I considering this a home run and ready to anoint Bird a genius? Of course not. Is this the type of signing that is going to bump us into the playoffs? I certainly don't think so. He's simply a piece of the puzzle.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Jones is laterally quick, but he also borders on being pretty dirty. He easily could have been called for a foul against TJ prior to the tech. He lowered his shoulder and drove into him. That gets called in the NBA all the time, they just missed it there.

    So is he talented or just so physical it makes up for it?

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Jones is laterally quick, but he also borders on being pretty dirty. He easily could have been called for a foul against TJ prior to the tech. He lowered his shoulder and drove into him. That gets called in the NBA all the time, they just missed it there.

    So is he talented or just so physical it makes up for it?
    He's more physical than he is talented but he's still talented. He relies a little too much on his athleticism but under O'brien, I could see him developing his offensive game a bit.

    Say what you will about coach Obie, several players have had breakout seasons under his tutelage.
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    "So is he talented or just so physical it makes up for it?" Does it matter? Effectiveness is effectiveness.

    In the few clips that there were breakdowns defensively, here is the problems I saw. Nene would take a lot of bad reads on the PNR. Instead of pushing the PG away from the basket, and allowing Jones to recover, he would sidestep and allow the offensive player to push further away from Jones, thus leaving a much bigger passing lane, and leaving two players with terrible defensive matchups. Not Good. Jones and Nene found themselves doubling the dribbler 18 feet from the basket if Jones was aggressive in recovery. Not good. Jones was easily able to recover to the PG, but he needed Nene to press out, which he did not do. Jones did make a few mistakes for sure, like not cutting in front of the passing lane because it was his only option to defend the pass instead of the big. He also could have at least tried to follow the big down the lane for a foul once he noticed the breakdown. Also, he needed to do a better job fighting his way through the initial screen, but when Nene isn't playing it properly, Jones doesn't have a chance either way.

    I think Jones needs to learn a few things from Dick Harter. I think he has the make-up to be a much better defender. I can't imagine he learned much when he was in Memphis playing with Damon Stoudamire. That team was so young and played NBDL basketball. He probably learned a little bit from Eddie Jones obviously, but I don't think E. Jones was a happy player in Memphis and he didn't stay for very long. Dahntay I think still has quite a bit of upside, as long as he picks up a better understanding of team defense as it pertains to the Pacers personnel and he works on his jump shot. He has the athleticism to have a nice jump shot. He needs to work on a consistent high release and follow through. He has pretty good form, but I think he needs better rotation and a little more arc on his shots. It's almost as if he shoots "over the ball" when flicking the wrist instead of getting under it for good rotation. He has never been asked to score on any team he has ever been on, so maybe with a little confidence from the coaching staff, the improvement will come.

    The one thing I do like about D. Jones is that he doesn't have many miles on his legs. The biggest concern we would have with a guy with his athleticism and reliance on driving to the hole is a knee injury... KNOCK ON WOOD. At his age, he can be effective long into his thirties since he has only played significant minutes in two NBA seasons. That makes me feel better about the outlook on his four year deal.
    Last edited by pacergod2; 07-10-2009 at 11:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Clips 12 and 13 now fixed.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    Jones is laterally quick, but he also borders on being pretty dirty. He easily could have been called for a foul against TJ prior to the tech. He lowered his shoulder and drove into him. That gets called in the NBA all the time, they just missed it there.

    So is he talented or just so physical it makes up for it?
    Never been ejected, never a flagrant foul during the regular season, only 13 technicals and he's played the same way 325 games in the NBA. That's a definite talent.

    Right now he relies too much on his athleticism, but the court smarts are obviously there. I think he had a great coach at Duke, but could use another teacher on the fine points.

    Still, as it stands right now, he has a clear cut role on this team. Even without improvement, his mental warfare and defensive value for 10-15 minutes/night far outweigh his salary. One on one, I'm not sure how he's anything but a stopper on most PGs and smaller SGs. Offensively, he's a major threat in transition, which is a huge part of our strategy.


    I'll have a lot more to post later on........
    Last edited by imawhat; 07-10-2009 at 12:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    One other thing to keep in mind with the clips where DJ's defense doesn't look so great is that the Pacers are one of the top offensive teams in the league. They were able to put up over 110 points against good defensive teams like the Pistons, Nuggets, Jazz, and Spurs (scored 121).
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    i went to this game, dahntay was doing some sick dunks b4 the game too.

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    Default Re: Dahntay Jones: Play by Play breakdown

    Worst case, he and McRoberts will put on a pre-game clinic doing different dunks.

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