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Thread: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

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    Default Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    As I explained in the first thread in this series, the Pacers have an approximately 2,000,000 trade exception to be used in a trade with another team for an existing contract (a non free agent player). I have searched to try and find out the EXACT amount of this trade exception, but have failed to find an exact number...the amount of 2,000,000 comes from reporting of last year's Jermaine O'Neal trade with Toronto, and from a recent Mike Wells blog mentioning it.

    What this means is this: We can trade an asset with no current monetary value (i.e. a future conditional draft pick, probably a second rounder) to a team which simply wants to pare payroll, thin their roster, or to simply get rid of a player they are having issues with. With our trade exception, we can take back a contract of that amount. Since I don't know the exact number on this trade exception we have, in the examples listed below I've fudged it just a little to include some players who are paid just a smidgen above that amount. Whether it would work or not for those exact players would depend on the specific amount of the money we have to work with.

    The point of this series was to get us all in the mode of thinking outside the box a bit on who we could acquire, and hopefully identify a "diamond in the rough" out there who might actually be obtainable in this way.

    In my research for this I've identified a few interesting names that I like and want to discuss. First, I am going to list my preliminary names that qualify and that would be at least worth discussing:

    JR Giddens and Bill Walker (Boston), Josh Boone (New Jersey), Wilson Chandler (NY), Patrick O'Bryant (Toronto), JJ Hickson (Cleveland), Aaron Afflalo (Detroit), Daequan Cook (Miami), Anthony Johnson (Orlando), Dominic McGuire (Washington), Devean George (Dallas), Brent Barry (Houston), Julian Wright and Devin Brown (New Orleans), Renaldo Balkman and Sonny Weems (Denver), Kyle Weaver (OKC), Mardy Collins (LAC), Mikki Moore (Sacramento), Rudy Fernandez and Nicolas Batum (Portland)


    Ok, now obviously some of these teams have little motivation to make a deal like this. On top of that, some of these guys are held in such high regard by their current teams that just giving them away to save money isn't going to happen. And obviously there are some older players or players with issues on this list that would make us queasy about inquiring about them to start with.

    But, even after you eliminate the unrealistic or undesirable from your list of prospects, there are a couple on this list that I think would be very nice future pieces for us, and would be obtainable for various reasons from their current squads.

    One of the main reasons that some of these guys may be available for bid from their current teams would be that some of these teams will either be JUST OVER the projected luxury tax, or needing to clear room to sweeten offers to prospective unrestricted free agents they covet. We covered some of this area in the first thread on this topic I know, but if a team (such as Toronto or Portland for instance) would deal an existing salary off their books, that would enable them to slightly sweeten an offer on the first year salary of Hedo Terkoglu or some other free agent out there.

    With all of that in mind, let's take a look at a few interesting possibilities, and I will have a recommendation on which player I'd go after this way.

    1. Trade a future second round pick to New Jersey for Josh Boone.

    Boone is a young big who is blocked in New Jersey a little bit by Yi Jianlian. Boone isn't a great player, but he can rebound and defend a little bit, and he isn't a stiff. He also would give us probably our only real legitimate shotblocker, and would be a young decent big to have for a year. Boone is still on his rookie deal I think, and is unlikely to stay in New Jersey for another season.

    The Nets aren't in superbad financial shape, but if there is indeed a player they would rather sign as a free agent for this upcoming season, they could partially pay for that by in effect selling Boone to us.

    2. Trade a future second round pick to Toronto for Patrick O'Bryant

    I actually think some team in the league will make this trade before July 8, as Toronto scrambles to put their finishing touches on the structure of Hedo Terkoglu's offer without having to renounce the rights to Carlos Delfino, who they seem to like. Clearing the young but relatively useless O'Bryant off their books might be a way they would consider saving some cash.

    O'Bryant is a true center who hasn't really lived up to his high draft status. (He was a top 10 pick once upon a time by Golden State). He still is just 23 years old, and may at some point finally develop into the player some scouts thought he would be coming out of college. He basically has done nothing so far as a pro except collect a check, but this could be a low risk, high reward move. If he doesnt pan out, I belive he is still on his rookie deal, and can be let go after this season.

    3. Trade a future second round pick to Cleveland for JJ Hickson

    Hickson is blocked in Cleveland, and basically will have no chance to play as they gear up with veterans for another championship run. Being that the Cavs are going to be over the luxury tax, this move could save them Hickson's salary multipled by 2, which could net them a savings potentially of almost 3,000,000 dollars.

    Would Cleveland actually do this? I doubt it (I certainly wouldn't if I were them....I think Hickson has a chance to be good someday) but with the tax looming over them, and with Hickson having no chance to play significant minutes there it seems, it is definitely worth inquiring about.

    4. Trade a conditional second round pick to Houston for Brent Barry

    Houston looks like they are going to be over the luxury tax after they sign Trevor Ariza. With Ming and McGrady being injured and crippling their short term championship aspirations, I see no reason why they would want to play the dollar for dollar luxury tax.

    Barry is old obviously, and doesnt fit our future, but for now he might be a cheap band aid on our wing positions as a bridge to Dunleavy's return from injury.

    Would I trade for Barry personally? No.

    Should it at least be considered? Probably, just as a veteran role player guy. Barry's skills at least somewhat fit our system, if he has anything left in the tank at all.

    5. Trade a future second round pick to Denver for Renaldo Balkman

    Balkman is an athletic wing who can be a very good defender when given an opportunity. He plays with high energy and has a very good motor. He is an extremely active rebounder, and in fact Isiah Thomas considered him to be the next Dennis Rodman when he drafted him for the Knicks a few years ago.

    Now, it turned out of course that he isn't anywhere near as good as Rodman, but he also doesnt dye his hair green and wear women's clothing either, so that may still be ok.

    What he would bring would be a guy with some above average leaping ability and athleticism to our team, and also someone who doesn't need the ball to be effective. In fact, he is such a bad offensive player that you don't want him to get the ball in almost any circumstances.

    Still, he would fit a defensive need for us, and wouldnt be a bad fit. He is a low risk player, who is young and always could end up being a late bloomer....although I doubt it.

    With Denver needing to try and resign Kleiza, Anderson, and Dahntay Jones, saving a couple million on a player who never plays for them anyway might make some sense to them. I'd say Balkman could definitely be had by someone.


    There were many players on the above full list that I would love to get, but don't consider realistic from their current teams perspective. For instance, I'd love to have Rudy Fernandez or Nicolas Batum from Portland, but neither of them are going anywhere in a give away type of deal (no matter how much Fernandez may be complaining). Likewise, I'd for Donnie Walsh just to hand us Wilson Chandler for a song, cap space, and old time's sake, but I don't see that happening. I could see Walsh throwing in Chandler as a sweetener to get a team to take Jeffries off their hands however....but that isn't going to be us probably, and that isn't the point of this thread anyway.

    The point of this particular thread was to try and identify a player we could realistic obtain, and that would help us the most, by using our 2,000,000 trade exception. I have identified who that player would/should/could be, at least if I were in a decision making capacity, so here is the deal I want us to make and why:

    Pacers trade a conditional future second round pick to Detroit for Aaron Afflalo.

    The reasons why Afflalo should be obtainable realistically are obvious. He is blocked by superior players signed to long term contracts. He is a wing on a team with Ben Gordon, Rip Hamilton, and Teyshaun Prince all signed long term.

    With the Pistons wanting to save all the cap room they can get prior to officially inking Villanueva and Gordon, even the paltry 1,000,000 bucks and change Afflalo costs them could be a factor in how they structure the 2 veteran free agents deals. Granted, the Pistons are in good financial shape and don't need to dump a cheap player for money reasons, but they might like the additional tweaking dumping Afflalo gives them at this exact moment in time. They also of course might like the idea of spending that extra 1,000,000 bucks or so in some other way, perhaps to obtain a cheap big somewhere.

    For the Pacers, Afflalo would be a steal in my opinion. In college at UCLA, when he came out of college I felt he was by far the best defensive wing player in his draft class. He is a high character guy who has major defensive wing ability, both in contesting shots and containing the dribble. I think he walks right in and becomes our best wing defender (at least on smaller wings who can't just overwhelm him with size). Afflalo is 6'5, so he can't be a guy who can guard giant wings, but he can be a great defender on shooting guards like Ray Allen or Joe Johnson. In fact, I thought in college Afflalo was one of the best defenders of avoiding or running thru screens that I have seen in a long time.

    With Indiana looking to possibly sign free agent Dahntay Jones, it would make much more sense in my opinion to purchase Afflalo instead, who would be 2-3 times cheaper, slightly younger, and in my opinion just all around a better player. Afflalo hasn't had real consistent playing time in Detroit, and he won't be getting it anytime soon it appears, but I still think highly of him and think he could be an excellent long term NBA wing.

    I also think his shooting form has improved somewhat as an NBA player. I have very little film of him playing for the Pistons (all I have is when they play us) but his form looks good to me now, where it was a bit shaky back at UCLA I thought. Afflalo isnt a great ballhandler, and isnt going to be a driver/scorer/creator of offense for you I don't think, but he doesn look like a guy who can develop a spot up jump shot that can be very effective on kick outs or in transition. Afflalo is a good foul shooter as well, so he can play for you at the end of games if you need him to.

    I think Afflalo can develop into a "Bruce Bowen" level player if he hits his marks and reaches his potential. I think we need a guy like that both short term and long term, so I badly want to see us obtain him this summer to see if I am right. Because of how things are shaking down, I think we've got a chance to do just that.

    The first part of this series got a lot of good discussion (despite going off track a little bit in the middle) so I hope this one does as well.

    I particular want to hear some opinions from KStat and others about Afflalo, to see if my impressions are valid or whether I am vastly overrating him, and on the Detroit perspective on what I am proposing here.

    Any of you who remember Afflalo well from UCLA can chime in as well.

    Finally, I hope to hear some of your ideas from the partial list of players I listed above, and who you might prefer we acquire in this way.


    As always, the above is just my opinion.

    Tbird

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    I like the Balkman deal, all others, Meh....

    Thing is, we may have a TE, but we can not just take on salery unless you are OK w/ Jack leaving, signing another very cheap PG, giving the keys to TJ - who has a PO for n/y.
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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    As I explained in the first thread in this series, the Pacers have an approximately 2,000,000 trade exception to be used in a trade with another team for an existing contract (a non free agent player). I have searched to try and find out the EXACT amount of this trade exception, but have failed to find an exact number... Tbird
    Espn trade machine reports it as $2,699,140. We also have the Ike Diogu exception of, $910,200.

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    The Pacers have two trade exceptions: one from the JO trade, and one from the Portland trade.

    1. The exception from the JO trade is for about $2,699,000. (The difference between JO's salary, and the combined salaries of Ford, Nesterovic, and Baston...we acquired Hibbert's rights, so there was no salary).

    2. The exception from the Portland trade is about $910,000. (The difference between Jack's salary and Ike's.)

    These cannot be combined, either with each other or with anything else, but they can be broken up. (Example, you could use the JO exception to get one $1.0mm player and one $1.6mm player.)

    They can only be used in trades.

    As to the trades suggested, I don't think Afflalo is going to be available, nor Hickson, and I'm doubtful on Boone. The other guys, I have no interest.

    Finally, these trade exceptions expire this coming Thursday (July 9), so I find it highly unlikely that we'll use them.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    I'd throw out a few more names.

    From GS, Anthony Morrow and Marco Belinelli would be intriguing to me. Morrow really had a fantastic finish to the season, and shot lights out. Belinelli is a great shooter too, though I doubt he's good on D at all (haven't really seen him, just remember how explosive he can be offensively).

    I'm sure LAC wouldn't trade him, but it's possible...DeAndre Jordan. Mike Taylor showed some flashes too but I'm not sold on him.

    Minnesota has PG Bobby Brown, who I think is supposed to be a pretty good defender.

    I wonder if CDR will have a reduced role in NJ behind Williams and Lee now. He's shown flashes of being a good bench player.

    PHX is always looking to shed salary, perhaps Alando Tucker?

    SAC has Donte Green who is a guy that has a lot of potential. He's stuck behind a number of wings, but he'd clearly be a project/bench player. But to take a flyer on him, he could be very good. I don't think SAC would give him away for free though.

    Koufos or Maynor in Utah...they surely wouldn't just hand them over, but it's possible if they want to resign Millsap enough without going too far over the tax. I'd still love to get Maynor, but it's probably wishful thinking.

    I would definitely be asking Washington about Nick Young and Javaris Crittenton. McGuire would be ok, and McGee could develop. I don't think they'd give up Young but maybe Crittenton would be available given all of the guards they have now. Either would be a steal IMO.

    That's all I got.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    I like the Balkman deal, all others, Meh....

    Thing is, we may have a TE, but we can not just take on salery unless you are OK w/ Jack leaving, signing another very cheap PG, giving the keys to TL - who has a PO for n/y.
    The way I think to look at our roster situation is this:

    1. We have approximately 8,000,000 of available funds to spend on this years roster to stay under the luxury tax, which we clearly will not exceed.

    2. We will, in my view, attempt to only carry Dunleavy, Tinsley and 12 others. If we somehow get rid of Tinsley's roster spot, we will simply fill it with someone making the minimum salary...The cost of Tinsley is unlikely to be mitigated much if at all buy a buyout or some other resolution in arbitration.

    3. We have Murphy, Dunleavy, Granger, Ford, Foster, Rush, Deiner and Hibbert under contract, for an approximate total of 50.6 million. Add 7.2 million for Tinsley and that makes approximately 57.8 in committed salary next season for 9 players total (2 of which won't be playing due to being injured or banned from the team). That means we have at least 5 players/warm bodies to sign just to have a full roster, which means on average we can spend less than 2 million per player (and less than that if you want to max out our roster at 15 players under contract).

    4. Assuming you sign McRoberts and Graham for an approximate total of 2.5 to 3 million in first year salary combined, that leaves you with 5 million approximately to spend on 3 (or maybe 4) players. Factor all that in, and I think it would be pretty clear that it is likely that Jarrett Jack won't be returning unless we can purge some salary in another deal somehow with someone.

    5. Even if the Pacers do re-sign Jack, they are going to need to fill the roster with uber cheap players, and using our trade exception is one of the best ways to expand the pool of players to choose from.

    No trade exception deal is going to lead us to the title next year or anything, so these aren't going to be super exciting deals to talk about I know. The hope is to find a needle in the haystack type player, and I think I've found one possibly in Afflalo.

    Thanks for reading the thread and responding Pacerguy!

    Tbird

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Looking over the Wiz roster, the guard rotation would leave Young as a 3rd string SG behind Miller and Foye, while Crittenton would be a 3rd or 4th or 5th string PG behind Arenas, James or Foye, and possibly Marbury as it has been rumored they'll sign him. So it's conceivable to me that Crittenton would be available for the TE.

    He would certainly fit the need of a big PG, and could likely play some 2 though he has a lot of work to do on his shot. He's 6'5" though, and he's only 22. The Wiz are paying a LOT of salary and really don't need and won't use him. He has 2 years left on his rookie deal.

    His last 10 games of the season he averaged 30 mpg, 10 ppg, 4 rpg, 3.6 apg, .7 spg, and 50% shooting from the field. He's only 25% from 3s in the last 10 and 14% on the year. Obviously a lot of work to be done. But with his size and athleticism, he may be worth taking a flyer on for a couple of seasons. We can afford to develop him and get him consistent minutes when JJ leaves. He'd be a major contrast to TJ Ford due to his size. But then neither of our PGs would be great shooters.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Finally, these trade exceptions expire this coming Thursday (July 9), so I find it highly unlikely that we'll use them.

    You beat me on the date these TE's expire, so unless the Pacers get something done quickly they are worthless. I also feel there is little chance they are used due to the fact the Pacers are slow in getting things done. I could be wrong, and Bird/Morway may have been burning up the phone lines. My feeling is nothing will happen with these TE's. Most TE's never get used, and just expire.

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    Expect Delays blanket's Avatar
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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Keep in mind also that while a TE can be packaged with a future draft pick, as you suggest, it can also be packaged with a player for which we already have the draft rights, such as:

    Andrew Betts
    Erazem Lorbek
    Stanko Barac
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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    I'm looking forward to your idea about trading for Anthony Johnson. Besides the fact that I've always liked him I want to watch the implosion when everyone else says how much they hate him.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Of all the names listed, put me in the camp of Crittenton. Bird has said he prefers a big PG. With Javaris size of 6'5", he can play 3 positions if necessary. Filling in with the second unit on occasion at the SF spot in very short stretches. DG or Rush shouldn't be giving up too many minutes at their respective positions, so while a stretch, I think this also plays into a versatility benefit much as JJ did this year.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    1. I don't think Josh Boone is a guy who is being "blocked" by Yi. I don't think Yi has done anything to warrant a guaranteed long term future in NJ and he's a totally different type of player from Boone anyways. Sean Williams has some off the court issues and he's hardly a reliable guy. I don't think Boone is a guy they're looking to give away. The Nets are in the middle ground salary wise. Dumping Boone for nothing doesn't create salary space to sign anyone, and at the same time they're nowhere near the luxury tax.

    2. Patrick O'bryant isn't worth a 2nd round pick. In fact, if you want him, you can just sign him as a FA. He's not under contract. He's a guy who is playing basketball because he's tall and somebody told him he could make some money playing the game. He doesn't play the game because he enjoys it. You can see it in his body language.

    3. JJ Hickson has enough value around the league that he could probably just fetch a future 1st round pick if they needed to clear off his salary. There are teams with enough salary space or trade exceptions that could offer them a future 1st. He simply has more value than a 2nd round pick at this point.

    4. Brent Barry could probably be had. Not sure if you really want him.

    5. Balkman could certainly be had. He'd be a somewhat useful guy. Wouldn't hurt to call Denver about him.
    With the Pistons wanting to save all the cap room they can get prior to officially inking Villanueva and Gordon, even the paltry 1,000,000 bucks and change Afflalo costs them could be a factor in how they structure the 2 veteran free agents deals. Granted, the Pistons are in good financial shape and don't need to dump a cheap player for money reasons, but they might like the additional tweaking dumping Afflalo gives them at this exact moment in time. They also of course might like the idea of spending that extra 1,000,000 bucks or so in some other way, perhaps to obtain a cheap big somewhere.
    Pistons don't need to save anymore money for signing Gordon/CV. Those are done deals and they fit well within their salary space. They have enough space to frontload those contracts if they wanted to (not sure if they did). Afflalo and his $1M won't affect that. Maybe they want to dump him if they want the extra room to entice another FA, but that's about it.

    They can just sign a veteran big to a $1M deal w/o affecting anything. Also, if they trade Hamilton, all of a sudden Afflalo becomes that much more useful. I just don't think his $1M salary stands in the way of anything they're trying to accomplish.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Balkman sounds like the best idea I've heard. Barring something I don't know, I think he's got the kind of game and personality to do well here.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Balkman sounds like the best idea I've heard. Barring something I don't know, I think he's got the kind of game and personality to do well here.
    Forgot to mention.

    Balkman can be had without giving up anything. His rookie contract is done and I don't believe he was extended a qualifying offer from Denver (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

    He is an UFA and can be had by anyone in the league.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception


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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Never mind. I looked at the shamsports site and I got 2009/2010 confused with 2008/2009 (this year is no longer listed). Yeah, I think you could get him from Denver if you offered them your trade exception. They'd do it.

    Just don't know for sure if the Pacers want to spend $2.1M on Balkman

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    When does this off-season starts to get interesting for us again ? I can''t wait o know the final results of finishing our roster.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    I will drive to OKC, punch any and all persons required as hard as possible, Kanditazer when necessary, drug/poison (non-lethal), photograph for blackmail purposes and any other similar dirty deed required to make the acquisition of KYLE WEAVER happen before next season.

    Personally I prefer administering some groin smashes with a cricket bat, but whatever. The key here is whatever it takes to get defensive ace Weaver on the team. He's a brilliant wing defender than plays a solid team oriented game on offense.



    Of course he falls under the No F'ing Way range of OKC letting him go IMO. Once they moved him into the rotation that was the end of that, he never left and he didn't disappoint. Just like C Lee. Needed to steal both those guys before their teams figured it out.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 07-05-2009 at 02:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    I will drive to OKC, punch any and all persons required as hard as possible, Kanditazer when necessary, drug/poison (non-lethal), photograph for blackmail purposes and any other similar dirty deed required to make the acquisition of KYLE WEAVER happen before next season.

    Personally I prefer administering some groin smashes with a cricket bat, but whatever. The key here is whatever it takes to get defensive ace Weaver on the team. He's a brilliant wing defender than plays a solid team oriented game on offense.



    Of course he falls under the No F'ing Way range of OKC letting him go IMO. Once they moved him into the rotation that was the end of that, he never left and he didn't disappoint. Just like C Lee. Needed to steal both those guys before their teams figured it out.
    I mean, if you're going to OKC to steal Weaver you may as well grab Durant and Westbrook as well. Why not Green and Harden while you're at it. That'd be great, thanks.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacemaker View Post
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    When does this off-season starts to get interesting for us again ? I can''t wait o know the final results of finishing our roster.
    Theoretically? Any time starting late this week. Realistically? Probably not for a few months.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Balkman looks like he could be a good bench player from what I've seen. He looks like a pretty good defender and plays the game with a lot of energy, something that any bench could use. It'll be interesting to see if Denver keeps him around for insurance purposes in case they lose Jones or Kleiza. It makes sense if the Pacers are interested in Jones, that they'd be interested in Balkman, whose kind of the same type of player (good defender, raw offensively).

    I saw this from draftexpress from June 2006:

    Balkmanís game is not much unlike current NBA player Trevor Arizaís. They have the same knack for rebounding, the same long and athletic physical attributes, the same energy on the floor, and the same raw perimeter game. Ariza is a better ball-handler than Balkman, and has recently developed a larger semblance of a mid-range jumper, but otherwise, Balkman could play a very similar role for an NBA team that Ariza does, providing energy in the passing lanes and on the break while contributing some slashing and rebounding offensively.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Getting him with a TE would also give Denver more money, and theoretically that might make it easier (along with the extra swingman spot open) to re-sign Kleiza.

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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    So someone get the number to Denver's GM and get this deal going.

  26. #24
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    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    Put me down as also being in the Balkman camp.

  27. #25

    Default Re: Player acquisition idea, part #2: Further study of using our trade exception

    I'd be open to the Balkman deal, but using a trade exception means increasing payroll.

    Am I missing something or is there a reason to suggest that this cash-strapped franchise is really open to doing that?

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