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Thread: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Some of the old-timers will remember three years ago when, due to the magic of EPT, my wife and I discovered that we were pregnant. Fast forward three years, and we now have a happy and healthy 2-year-old. She's really enjoyed watching basketball with me this year, and now has a small plastic basketball that she enjoys throwing up in the air.

    I'm 6'6" and my wife is 6'2". We're both moderately athletic. I played soccer through HS, and my wife played tennis.

    So I'd like for my daughter to play basketball as she gets older, if she continues to be interested. Is there anything that I should know? I don't care about actual team issues yet; we're still a few years away. I'm thinking more in terms of good gifts. Children's basketball hoops: good or bad? What sized ball? Basically looking for advice from folks who have had kids play ball.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Anthem; 07-05-2009 at 10:34 PM.
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Dude my little 2 year old has a basketball goal in the house. it ranges from 3-6 feet. We watch Pacer games or play NBA 2K (when my XBOX is not on the fritz) and about two minutes in he goes and shoots. He even tries to dribble. Cultivate the interest and simply don't over burden the child (not claiming you are). Having the child reach their regular milestones will pave the way for any basketball skills.

    For instance my son can stand and dunk his goal at 3 feet. If I raise it to four, he can't score cause he hit a jump shot, cause he can barely jump.

    But I know that my son loves "bunka" ("basketball in his own language, no matter how hard I try to teach him). Every time we see a ball or a goal he wants to play. Amazing and fun....I love my Boy.

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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Good questions. I had similar questions, and an unfair advantage to getting them answered - my father was one of the first licensed elementary school PE teachers in the state. Admittedly, he only taught at the elementary school level for his first year, and then he "graduated" to teaching and coaching at the middle school and later high school levels. He's a big advocate in "don't start too early" because you don't really gain an advantage by the time middle school rolls around yet you substantially ncrease the likelihood of burnout. He spent countless hours telling parents of middle school kids that he had to cut that, "yes, I know your son has been playing for years, but the other kids have caught up to his skill level."

    Here's what we've done/ are doing. Take it with a grain of salt...

    Start with a kids size ball. Just let her run around with it. We had one of those Fisher Price plastic goals for few years - found it at a garage sale. When she was three, we had a step she could stand on and dunk the ball. In fact, I think that is the only item we've ever bought at a garage sale.

    In a couple of years, your daughter will be ready for fun little drills like passing the ball around her waist (she'll drop it a lot, but she's working on finger strength and dexterity, getting the feel for the ball.) Also some sloppy dribbling. And you can dribble the ball and have her chase you around and try to steal it from you. Eventually, you'll have to teach her that grabbing the opponent's leg or arm in order to steal the ball is really a foul, but not yet.

    By five, some pass-and-catch and a minor amount of "shooting". Teach her "butterfly - release!" with her hands, and she'll learn the difference between shooting the ball in the basket and throwing the ball at the basket. Her form will still be terrible - you shouldn't worry about fixing it for a couple more years (as long as she has some type of follow-through.) By this point, she'll already have more fundamentals than Dale Davis ever had.

    Do not rush her.

    Skills will rapidly progress late in the elementary school years. No reason for a kid younger than third or fourth grade to feel any pressure "playing basketball (games)". If you want her to run around playing a team sport, pick one like soccer where running is more important that skills/ hand-eye coordination (at least for elementary school aged kids, maybe older players have more skills - and maybe they don't. )

    Once she's in about first grade, and can get a shot up to about six feet, its time to have a real adjustable goal and a regulation-sized ball. Play around-the-world at a distance that she hits a high percentage.

    My going-into-fourth grader is starting to really get into it. We keep the rim at 8.5 feet, because she still struggles at 9.0 feet. She's in a fundamentals class at the YMCA that is for third grade and up, and later in the month she'll be in our friends' basketball day-camp (he's the head coach of a local D3 team).

    She came home last Tuesday and said she had learned "one-two-hop". "What's that?" I asked. Then she went out and showed me her running layup. Pretty cool. Then we had a discussion on jump stops and pivot feet (and why, if you don't do the jump-stop properly, you get called for traveling when you pivot.)

    I have a couple of books about teaching basketball skills to kids - start here:

    http://www.thebigo.com/TheArt/TheArt.php
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
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    And life itself, rushing over me
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    That's some real great advice, Jay. Thanks for posting. I have been teaching 3-16 year olds basketball fundamentals for some time now and what you've just laid out makes me feel better about what I've been doing.

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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks man.
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Always, always stress keeping her head up while dribbling.

    The number of girls I've seen who stare at the ball when they dribble is extremely high, even into the middle school level.


    Other than that, the level of the commitment required probably varies a little bit based on your school district. A big (1000 kids per grade) district might start weeding them out pretty early - middle school. Which is a same because many kids don't develop that soon. A big school district might mean specializing in one particular sport early, and playing it year round.

    IMO, playing too much of one sport at a young age just sucks. Too much burn out, not enough fun.

    On the other hand, if your daughter gets over 6 foot, which sounds pretty likely, she shouldn't have a problem making any given freshman team. You can't teach height, as they say.

    My girls start high school this year. They should end up playing two sports in high school, volleyball and basketball. Other than the fact they have good height (5' 8" and 5' 10") and are reasonably athletic, they have a couple if very good things going for them:

    They work hard.
    They are "coachable".

    Those two things go a long way. Particularly as development starts to level off.
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Also, expect to have good coaches and bad ones.

    I got so frustrated with my girls rec league coaches that I ended up volunteering myself. Spending 1/2 hour of a 1 hour practice playing "knock out" is not my idea of a useful skill development...
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Particularly as development starts to level off.
    That is so true.

    Somebody put my seventh grade football and basketball team pictures on Facebook. It was painful enough to see that I was far-and-away the smallest kid on the team. But then I got to laughing when I saw the kids that had full beards in middle school and played F and C on the basketball team back then turned out to be smaller than me. (Of course, I grew four inches as a freshman in college, so my growth spurt was very late.)

    I've told my wife and father that if I start coaching Samantha's basketball teams, that I'll be committed to having the girls play every position over the course of the season. Just because you're tallest in fourth grade does not mean that you'll be playing C later in life.

    Clearly, with parents that are 6'6" and 6'2", your situation may be a bit better defined.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Other than that, the level of the commitment required probably varies a little bit based on your school district. A big (1000 kids per grade) district might start weeding them out pretty early - middle school. Which is a same because many kids don't develop that soon.
    You do have to figure out the politics at some point. At my school, attending the varsity coach's annual summer day camp was a must. To me, that was obvious, but then again my Dad was one of the instructors. To an outsider (especially if you're living in a school district that you didn't grow up in), it does take a bit of investment. My daughter is pretty involved with a swim team program that is run by our varsity swimming coach, and its no secret that he uses it as a progressively more intense development program. He keeps it fun for the elementary school aged kids, but the middle schoolers are getting used to some damn difficult practices.

    A big school district might mean specializing in one particular sport early, and playing it year round.
    This is true, but it really is a shame. Let the kids be kids.

    In the same breath, someone that advocates this specialization will say, "but Timmy got burned out, can you believe it??" Duh.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)


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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Always, always stress keeping her head up while dribbling.

    The number of girls I've seen who stare at the ball when they dribble is extremely high, even into the middle school level.

    Guys do this too. Honestly, the best way to learn to play a sport with your head up, and Jay will hate this I'm sure, is to play soccer. It will help your awareness x1000, I was never the best ball handler, but I was always able to keep my head up and it made me much better when I was asked to set up the offense which I often did for my teams even though I was usually playing one of the forward positions because I played soccer in the fall and spring and bball in the winter.
    Last edited by Trader Joe; 07-08-2009 at 08:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    You do have to figure out the politics at some point. At my school, attending the varsity coach's annual summer day camp was a must. To me, that was obvious, but then again my Dad was one of the instructors. To an outsider (especially if you're living in a school district that you didn't grow up in), it does take a bit of investment. My daughter is pretty involved with a swim team program that is run by our varsity swimming coach, and its no secret that he uses it as a progressively more intense development program. He keeps it fun for the elementary school aged kids, but the middle schoolers are getting used to some damn difficult practices.



    This is true, but it really is a shame. Let the kids be kids.

    In the same breath, someone that advocates this specialization will say, "but Timmy got burned out, can you believe it??" Duh.
    Some great advice by Jay in this thread.

    Ironically enough, my high school track coach had a summer camp every summer that was "optional" but strongly encouraged. My senior year if became required but before that if you were not at this camp you did not run with the "A" team (varsity).

    Also ironically, I was burnt out via this coach and minus one half marathon I refuse to run. Not only does it hurt to run with all of the injuries I have, I also do not enjoy it anywhere close to as much as I used to.

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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    This is an interesting thread. I exposed my daughter to nearly everything in music and sports. Then allowed her to follow whatever road she wanted and supported her every step of the way. She ended up being a second chair violinist and an elite level club volleyball player. One of the tools I gave her was instruction at Acceleration Indiana which provided target specific training. Plyometrics, twitch muscle explosion and stamina. But she had to do the work and she did. Sometimes it's an expensive proposition, but the results were priceless. (Seems like there's a commercial in there). I guess what I'm trying to say is she will find her love and it's your job to support that dream.
    Last edited by ABADays; 07-08-2009 at 10:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    That is so true.

    Somebody put my seventh grade football and basketball team pictures on Facebook. It was painful enough to see that I was far-and-away the smallest kid on the team. But then I got to laughing when I saw the kids that had full beards in middle school and played F and C on the basketball team back then turned out to be smaller than me. (Of course, I grew four inches as a freshman in college, so my growth spurt was very late.)

    I've told my wife and father that if I start coaching Samantha's basketball teams, that I'll be committed to having the girls play every position over the course of the season. Just because you're tallest in fourth grade does not mean that you'll be playing C later in life.

    Clearly, with parents that are 6'6" and 6'2", your situation may be a bit better defined.
    Good advice J. From 7th-9th grade I was one of the tallest guys in school playing forward and center. As guys passed me in height I was relegated to back-up guard because I didn't know how to play the position and hadn't developed the tools.
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Something I learned this year was that there are two 'moratorium' weeks during the summer in Indiana where there can be NO sports activities.

    I suspect it had gotten so bad that kids couldn't take summer family vacations for fear of getting on a coach's **** list for missing camp.

    My girls have 2 days a week of school volleyball camp, which includes an 1 or so hour of conditioning. And probably a multi-day camp of some sort every other week.

    They like volleyball, the coaches, the girls on the team, and don't mind working out, so it's not too bad.

    I can really see both sides. Playing school sports at a high level requires a pretty good commitment of time on the players, but also an investment from the coaches. By seeing who wants to commit, they can better figure out which players are worth developing.

    But at the same time, you can't really dock a kids for missing if they have a pretty good excuse. My girls have missed most of the basketball activities, except for 3 of the 4 days of the "team camp". I don't want them doing 3-4 hours of high intensity work every day of the summer. They'll burn out. I would. Kids need to be kids. Fortunately, the basketball coaches understand.
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    I've told my wife and father that if I start coaching Samantha's basketball teams, that I'll be committed to having the girls play every position over the course of the season. Just because you're tallest in fourth grade does not mean that you'll be playing C later in life.
    Amen! I highly recommend rotating them. My girls were always the tallest had have very little time handling the ball.

    It's hard to develop post players anyway, since you don't have guards that can get the ball to them in good position. They only way they'll score is rebounds. Even in two years of watching Kalie play center in middle school, I don't think I saw more than a handful of good entry passes from the wing. And I think those were more luck than anything.

    The year I coached the girls, I ran plays for every single player on the floor every game. Sure, little Suzy might not be able to catch a soft pass from 2 feet away, but I'm calling her number at least once a game.

    Actually, I was probably worse that Rick was with the Pacers, because I called every play, every time. That way I could mix things up and make sure every girl on the floor was involved. No 'everybody clear out and let our one good dribbler go to the hoop' for me.

    Our plays were basically 'player a is picking for player b' type of stuff, but I could teach setting good picks, making good cuts, strong passes, rolling to the hoop, and so forth out of it.

    We did have a simple motion-based offense (pass to the wing, look to the post, post picks away, PG picks away, hit the cutter or dribble back to the top and do it on other side) that we put in over the season. That allowed to teach some other offensive fundamentals (spacing, etc)

    Or, if I yelled 'push it' after a rebound it was a full-on fast break.

    All that, and we somehow also found time to teach both man-to-man and help defense, and the basic fundamentals of rebounding, passing, and ball handling.

    In 1 hour of practice once a week.

    Lets just say I was very organized and didn't waste even a single second of my hour.

    My girls improved more in those 12 practices than they did in 3 years before.
    Last edited by Doug; 07-08-2009 at 10:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    One of the tools I gave her was instruction at Acceleration Indiana which provided target specific training. Plyometrics, twitch muscle explosion and stamina. But she had to do the work and she did. Sometimes it's an expensive proposition, but the results were priceless.
    My kids have done this before, and it was very beneficial to them, particularly the girls.
    You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
    All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    When I coached girls 4 on 4 basketball maybe 5th grade level, I taught them 5 plays that included all the ingredients of passing, blocking out, dribbling and screening. Only 5. After a short time they could run those plays to "perfection" because it was second nature to them. The other thing I taught a bit later on was defensively overplaying the dribble hand. It made the offensive player uncomfortable because they felt they could only go one way and they were afraid to try a cross-over.

    I had one girl who was so good that I took her Dad aside and told him "She is beyond my coaching" His reply was he just wanted her to have fun.
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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
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    Something I learned this year was that there are two 'moratorium' weeks during the summer in Indiana where there can be NO sports activities.

    I suspect it had gotten so bad that kids couldn't take summer family vacations for fear of getting on a coach's **** list for missing camp.

    My girls have 2 days a week of school volleyball camp, which includes an 1 or so hour of conditioning. And probably a multi-day camp of some sort every other week.

    They like volleyball, the coaches, the girls on the team, and don't mind working out, so it's not too bad.

    I can really see both sides. Playing school sports at a high level requires a pretty good commitment of time on the players, but also an investment from the coaches. By seeing who wants to commit, they can better figure out which players are worth developing.

    But at the same time, you can't really dock a kids for missing if they have a pretty good excuse. My girls have missed most of the basketball activities, except for 3 of the 4 days of the "team camp". I don't want them doing 3-4 hours of high intensity work every day of the summer. They'll burn out. I would. Kids need to be kids. Fortunately, the basketball coaches understand.
    I think if you have some check and balances in place (be it a AD or not) and you keep it reasonable then that is fine.

    The problem is (at least for me) the team had so much success (state championships for like 4 or 5 years in a row) in the past that the coach is able to persuade the higher ups that it is necessary to have those mandatory practices.

    I have no problem with commitment, I just think you need to allow kids to be kids.

    Enough of my rant, some great advice in this thread for you Anthem.

    Best of luck, Anthem. It seems like just yesterday when I remember your posting you were going to be a daddy.

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    Default Re: Train up a child in the way she should go... (children's basketball question)

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    I guess what I'm trying to say is she will find her love and it's your job to support that dream.
    That's the most important sentence in this whole thread.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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