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Thread: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

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    Default Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    The Pacers made a difficult, but necessary decision this past weekend when they decided not to pick up the 2009-10 option on the contract of Marquis Daniels.

    While Indiana is thin on the wing, Daniels would have made $7.35 million, which would have pushed the Pacers dangerously close to the expected luxury tax threshold.

    Daniels will become an unrestricted free agent on Wednesday, but the ball is still in the Pacers' court if they so choose.

    Statistically, Daniels had his best season last year. He averaged career-highs in points (13.6), rebounds (4.6) and minutes (31.5), but appeared in just 54 games.

    His season ended early because of a wrist injury suffered in March.

    When healthy, Daniels played a vital role for the Pacers, who were without Mike Dunleavy for a majority of the season. With Dunleavy out until 2010, losing Daniels leaves Indiana dangerously thin on the wing.

    Currently, Danny Granger and Brandon Rush are the team's only options at shooting guard and small forward, which leaves the team one injury away from disaster.

    It's very possible that the Pacers could find a serviceable, low-cost option on either the free agent or trade market, but Daniels might be the best out there.

    He didn't play up to his contract in 2008-09, largely because of his injuries issues, "earning" just $3.74 million according to RealGM Executive Editor Christopher Reina's ingenious 'Reina Value.'

    Because of durability issues and a depressed market, I'd imagine that Daniels could fetch anywhere from $3 million to $6 million annually on the free agent market. He has never appeared in more than 74 games in any of his six NBA seasons, and has logged 60 or fewer games on four occasions.

    What hurts Daniels in Indiana's offensive system is his lack of range, but he provides them with versatility in most other aspects.

    He can't hit a three-pointer with any sort of consistency (23.7% for his career), but can slash to the basket and finish with regularity around the rim. Granger is probably the only member of the team that drives to the basket better than Daniels. He can handle the ball and rebound as well.

    When the combination of T.J. Ford and Jarrett Jack were either injured or in foul trouble last season, Daniels was a capable fill-in at the point. His assist numbers (2.1 per game) weren't great, but he plugs the hole and creates mismatches at the position.

    In terms of efficiency, Daniels is still chasing the numbers he posted in his final season with the Mavericks (2005-06, 10.2 points on 8.3 shots), but aside from his limited range he's a good fit for the Pacers.

    There isn't a player of his caliber on the free agent market that Indiana would likely be able to sign, whether the hang up is financial or because there is no guarantee of a playoff berth in Indiana.

    Drafting Tyler Hansbrough addressed the team's need for another big body and a presence in the paint, but the focus should be on the perimeter now.

    There were rumors that the Pacers were shopping Ford prior to last week's draft, but doing that, if still possible, won't solve the team's issues on the wing unless they are able to land a slasher in exchange for the point guard.

    Daniels can play at three spots, further enhancing his value for the Pacers, especially with Dunleavy out, Rush still relatively unproven and a point guard situation that appears to be influx yet again.

    It's obvious that the Pacers don't feel as though Daniels is worth $7.35 million, and he isn't. But how high should they go if he is open to signing a long-term deal as an unrestricted free agent?

    As I said, his play last season indicated that he was worth roughly $3.7 million, and the Pacers shouldn't waste any time getting his signature if he's willing to sign, say, a three-year deal worth $11 million. However, that's unlikely.

    With only about $18 million, plus the contract of Hansbrough, locked up in 2011-12, Indiana could back load any deal given to Daniels to provide them more flexibility in the present.

    Let's assume Daniels' market value is roughly $4.5 million per year, which I believe is a fair assessment. The Pacers could sign him to a three-year, $14 million deal with increasing annual value.

    They could pay him $3.75 million this coming season, $4.75 million in 2011 and $5.5 million in 2012.

    A deal in that realm would be a great value for the Pacers. It would allow them to retain a fill-in and insurance for Dunleavy, while not pushing them up against the luxury tax wall.

    If the Pacers don't make a strong play for Daniels, someone will.
    http://pacers.realgm.com/articles/17...n_for_indiana/
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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    What a horrible idea.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    I don't think it's a horrible idea, but I agree that there are better alternatives.

    FWIW, while Daniels' "Reina value" at $3.74 mil, his "Fife value" is right at 4 mil. (It was even higher earlier in the season, before Rush emerged.) Given his injury history and market conditions (as well as his lack of development from 3-pt land), I don't agree with Perna's assessment that his open-market value is $4.5 mil.
    Last edited by DrFife; 06-30-2009 at 12:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    It's like "ex sex". It's nice and it fills a void, but at the end of the day, you know "It's time to move on..." Nothing good or productive is going to come of it.
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 06-30-2009 at 12:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    I would hate to pay someone $4million and have them sit 30 games on the bench because of injuries.

    We already have that problem with Dunleavy and Tinsley, and had it before with JO. Pacers have been plagued with injuries. I would rather use that $4 million for someone who would play at least 70 games
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Horrible idea?
    You mean 3/11m?

    Seems reasonable to me. It's either that or lots and lots of TJ/Jack/Rush or Granger lineups. And of course the always huge Diener/Jack/Rush/Granger/Troy lineups.

    They really need a solid defensive wing to go with Rush and Danny. Graham is going to kill them if asked to defend the wing for 28 mpg.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Id sign him for something like 2 years/6 million (3 per). He would add nice depth. I doubt he would take that... but I would prefer not to mess with all the cap room we will potentially have after two more seasons.

    We do need a backup wing and preferably one that is a capabale defender.
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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    I'd rather give that 3 years $11 million to Keith Bogans. At least he'll play more games and play good defense
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Millertime, Thank the lord you are not the GM. Q6 is way better than Bogans. He can break guys off the dribble and get to the hoop. He is an above average defender. He knows JOB's system and has playoff experience. 3 years @ 11 mill would be a steal for any team in the league for the services of Marquis Daniels.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    I would love to have Marquis back at a good price (3 mil per, or so)

    He's one of those players who seems to be forgotten about for whatever reason. He did a good job for us last season and without him it would've been a disaster.

    Obviously 7 mil per year is way too much, but I see no reason not to bring him back at a better price.

    Under-valued player in my opinion.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    We do hold his Bird Rights, so we could realistically sign him. I would love to sign him starting at about 2.5-3.0M, which would put his deal right around the 10M range for three years. Especially if we get some cap relief from the buyout or trade of Tinsley.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Unfortunately, I think we will see a lot more of the Jack Ford combo in the back court, because I think someone else will easily outbid us for Daniels services. Then we should just go for an undrafted FA, and a veteran for the league minimum.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    What's the league minimum for someone with Daniels' experience?

    $3 million per still sounds too rich for a guy that is never healthy, can't shoot, but can slash to the rim and can defend.

    We need a backup swingman to play 18-20 mpg, assuming Rush and Granger both get at least 36mpg, which they should.
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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    What's the league minimum for someone with Daniels' experience?

    $3 million per still sounds too rich for a guy that is never healthy, can't shoot, but can slash to the rim and can defend.

    We need a backup swingman to play 18-20 mpg, assuming Rush and Granger both get at least 36mpg, which they should.

    $1,033

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    It is 1.15M for the first and 1.27M for the second season. I think that would be great for the Pacers to sign him to, but I think some team will make him a little better offer.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Count, wouldn't he actually have to sign as having 7 years experience since this next year he would be getting signed for would be his seventh year in the league? Or am I misinterpreting this?

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    I'd rather give that 3 years $11 million to Keith Bogans. At least he'll play more games and play good defense
    Bogans might be a good fit if he wasn't so short and such a ballhog. He's a little too similar to Jack as well, IMO with Jack being the better player.

    Anthony Parker might be a slightly better fit.
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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    I agree that Parker would be a terrific fit for us, but there are way too many European teams out there that remember how good he was in Europe that would be willing to pay way more than we would for his services.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    Count, wouldn't he actually have to sign as having 7 years experience since this next year he would be getting signed for would be his seventh year in the league? Or am I misinterpreting this?
    The scale is based on full years of experience. A rookie would be 0. Since Daniels is starting his 7th year, you would look at the min for a player with 6 years of experience.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Keep an eye out for the Pacers signing someone like Morris Almond. He is a player Bird liked out of college who has performed well in the NBDL, but has played little for the Jazz.

    He's only 24 and 6'6 225 can play both sg and some sf , he is a name I'd not be surprised to see at Pacer fall camp.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    I'd offer him two years, $3.0 to $3.5 million after he sits on the market for several weeks with no interest. Don't want to insult him with that offer up front if he is crazy enough to think he's getting the MLE somewhere. Once economic reality sets in, maybe he'll take that amount to stay here.
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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    Keep an eye out for the Pacers signing someone like Morris Almond. He is a player Bird liked out of college who has performed well in the NBDL, but has played little for the Jazz.

    He's only 24 and 6'6 225 can play both sg and some sf , he is a name I'd not be surprised to see at Pacer fall camp.
    I hope so!!!

    I believe he could thrive in JO'B's system where he was a bad fit with Sloan's system.

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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    It's like "ex sex". It's nice and it fills a void, but at the end of the day, you know "It's time to move on..." Nothing good or productive is going to come of it.
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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    Quote Originally Posted by diamonddave00 View Post
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    Keep an eye out for the Pacers signing someone like Morris Almond. He is a player Bird liked out of college who has performed well in the NBDL, but has played little for the Jazz.

    He's only 24 and 6'6 225 can play both sg and some sf , he is a name I'd not be surprised to see at Pacer fall camp.
    Oh, that would be just fine with me. I like shooting guards who can shoot, so I'd love to have Almond.
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    Default Re: Is Daniels Still An Option For Indiana?

    My problem with Almond is I think they need SF style defense much more than 3 ball shooting. Rush and Granger give you outside shots and even Ford and Jack to an extent.

    Quis had impact two ways that are not replaced yet - scatback into the lane for scores and tip drill defense on the outside to slow up offenses. They still need that. While TWill wouldn't be the scorer I think his defense and passing would more than replace Quis, which is why I was hoping for him. That's the type of player I think they still need.

    As Jay said let him sit in the market, he's free to take a look and I have no problem with his return later and cheaper. He'd contribute a lot more next NOV for a lot less than Dunleavy is getting ready to do.

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