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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Lawson, the next Felton?

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  • #1

    Lawson, the next Felton?

    Considering the remarkable similarity between the 2, I thought it would be fun to go back in time to see what was said about Felton when he was coming into the NBA. Felton has developed into a solid PG, and one that may be developing into a very good one after learning from Larry Brown. This past season he put up 14 ppg, nearly 7 apg, 4 rpg and 1.5 spg. He is one of the quickest PGs in the league, and here is some of what DX said about his past season:

    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Raymond-Felton-5/
    His quickness, strength, and explosiveness are ideal even by NBA standards, though his physical stature is only average. Has quickly become a quality NBA point guard, and has the potential to get even better, even though he’s been hurt by Charlotte’s lack of stability from the sidelines. Future success largely depends on whether Larry Brown will try to rein him in, or allow him to play the type of up-tempo basketball that best suits him.

    Offense: Operates primarily off of the pick and roll, but also gets some of his shots from spot up and isolation situations. A great pick and roll point guard due to his ability to turn the corner, create passing lanes, and find the open man. One of the best point guards in the League at throwing full court bounce passes. The most impressive aspect of his point guard skills stem from the way he pushes the ball in transition. Very good at getting to an open area, receiving the outlet, and advancing the ball up the floor in a hurry. Capable of turning regular possessions into fast break opportunities. Few players can match his agility, ball handling, and court vision on the move. A poor shooter from behind the 3-point line, which is the #1 thing he will have to improve on to become more than just an average NBA point guard. Could still stand to improve his finishing ability around the rim, which is hampered by his poor size. Tends to drive left when he attacks the basket, and usually gets all the way to the rim. Absorbs contact better than most point guards. Shoots a pretty decent percentage from the line, but could always improve in that aspect of the game. Seems to get going too fast at times, leading to turnovers, but is starting to control tempo like an NBA floor general. It would probably serve him well to improve his midrange game to diversify his offensive repertoire.

    Defense: A great ball-hawk, pressuring his man the entire length of the floor and being a general nuisance when his man has the ball. Great lateral quickness. His ability to jump into passing lanes allows him to create some turnovers, though he tends to avoid taking unnecessary risks. A smart defender considering his experience level, and much of his ability can be contributed to his time at North Carolina. Shows a willingness to go after long rebounds, but would just as soon get ready to receive an outlet pass. Size will always be a hindrance in this area, though, as opposing guards can easily see the floor and get shots off against him.
    Coming into the league, Felton was lauded for his quickness, speed, and explosiveness. He was considered tough and the leader of the National Champion Tar Heels. His athleticism made up for his height in many ways. He was also noticed for his elite ballhandling skills with either hand. He was a true pass first PG, who was considered to be a great passer, despite a high number of turnovers. They also praised him for quick hands and feet on defense.

    His weaknesses were his size, of course. Some wondered if he was injury prone. Physicality got to him. And, there was the UNC System Stigma:

    On one hand, the speed at which Felton plays at is one of his greatest strengths; it can also at times be his greatest weakness. He needs to cut down on the turnovers, which are almost always a result of playing too fast or trying to make passes that are too difficult. It sometimes seems that Felton can only play at one speed, which of course is lightning speed. He is going to have to learn to slow down and take what the defense dictates.
    He also was not a good shooter. He still has poor FG% in the NBA. However, he has answered some of the knocks on him in the League. For one, he has missed 9 games in 4 years. He has been a consistent performer despite a slew of new coaches, and really blossomed in the 2nd half of the season under Larry Brown. He has shown that he can play at varying speeds, and is one of the top fast breaking PGs in the league. He still has a lot of room to grow, but he has nice potential to be an even better starter than he already is.

    Now, Lawson has many of the same strenghts, as well as knocks.
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ty-Lawson-485/
    STRENGTHS:- Transition play- True point guard- Ability to create own shot- Aggressive slashing mentality- Ball-handling skills- Excellent hands- Ability to get in passing lanes- Pressure defense- Potential- Unselfishness- Work ethic- High-level productivity- Assist to turnover ratio- Court vision- Passing skills- Incredibly quick- Strength- 3-point shooting percentages- Ability to catch and shoot
    WEAKNESSES:- Ability to play at different speeds- Mid-range game- Defensive potential- Basketball IQ?- Experience- Focus- Leadership skills in clutch- College system makes him difficult to evaluate- Poor wingspan- Size for position- Ability to shoot off the dribble- Limited number of 3-point attempts- Pull-up jumper


    UNC's system makes it hard for people to decide whether or not he can play in the pros. His shot is questioned, his height is questioned, his ability to play at other speeds is questioned, his defense is questioned, his IQ is questioned. All similar complaints about Felton who has turned into a quality starter. Lawson has had the better individual college career, which means he could turn into a better pro than Felton is. Yet no one really talks about that...for reference:


    Felton Jr Season: 6', 199 lbs, junior, National Champion.
    32 mpg, 13 ppg, 7 apg, 2 spg, 3.6 topg, 1.9 a/to, 45% FG, 44% 3pt, 70% FT


    Lawson Jr Season: 6', 195, junior, National Champion.
    30 mpg, 16.6 ppg, 3 rpg, 6.6 apg, 2.1 spgm 1.9 topg, 3.5 a/to, 53% FG, 47% 3pt, 80% FT

    The knocks on Felton at the NBA (forcing bad passes, shooting midrange/3s) are things that Lawson has already demonstrated to be capable of. It's not a far stretch to imagine him being a better PG than Felton...and Felton was the #5 pick. It's interesting to see so much less is thought of Lawson, and maybe there's something to that that I don't know about.

    I just thought it was remarkable how similar their careers and styles are. I'll be interested to see if Lawson's superior numbers translate to a superior NBA career. If the Pacers think it can, maybe he's someone they really like at 13. Lawson is a much better overall shooter, and seems to be a much better decision maker. If he can play the half court like Felton has learned how to, he could be a very good NBA PG. But most people aren't projecting that, so perhaps this comparison is way off. Like I said, I just thought it was very interesting how similar the positives, negatives, and numbers were, and Felton turned out just fine.



    Is it enough of a potential upgrade over what we have now? That's what the Pacers will have to decide at 13. I still think they'll look to go big first, unless they get a deal they like for TJ.
    Last edited by ESutt7; 06-15-2009, 12:28 AM.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Lawson, the next Felton?

    It could be a possibility. I am always in the interest of drafting the best available player if possible if it can be used as trade bait later.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Lawson, the next Felton?

      I'm a Tar Heel fan, but I'm a realistic fan. I called May as a role player, McCants as a scorer and nothing more, and so on. I did think Felton would be good, and he is now showing he can be.

      I think Lawson will be better than Felton. Lawson is really the type of player that did everything well, so they pick on things that aren't true. They bash his shooting, but his percentages are crazy, they bash his IQ but he had an insanely high A/TO ratio. His height is only a concern on defense, but he is strong and quick enough to still be a pest to other PGs. Lawson is going to have a great NBA career, I would be thrilled if we got him.

      For those of you wondering if I'm just a homer:

      Hansbrough - Great guy to have on the bench, will bring energy and will be one of the best 7th men in the league. Great locker room presence also.

      Ellington - Great shooter, did more than I thought he could this past year at UNC, but will struggle in the NBA. I don't see him having a long NBA career.

      Green - Will be the steal of the draft. He is a do it all kinda player and do it all kinda players always make it in the NBA. Plus he will be a fan favorite. I'm not saying hes going to be a stud, but for a likely second round pick, he will have a very successful career.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Lawson, the next Felton?

        Lawson is a game changing player. Odds are very high he is around @ 13.

        Danny Green/Tyler Hansborough are the reason I would love to acquire the 32nd pick from the Blazers.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Lawson, the next Felton?

          According to wish-tv 8 Lawson is working out for the Pacers today. Teague also (he's from Indy and went to Wake Forest)
          "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
          Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Lawson, the next Felton?

            I was really surprised to see the comparisons on Draftexpress.net for Ty Lawson:

            Best Case: T.J. Ford
            Worst Case: Jamaal Tinsley

            We already have both scenarios! No way the Pacers draft yet another guard like that... right?

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Lawson, the next Felton?

              As far as I know, he doesn't have the same attitude/work ethic concerns. The draft is a crap shoot, but Lawson looks to be virtually identical to what Felton was and actually a bit better. That's why I'm surprised that he's projected to go so low. He must not be doing well in workouts. I know we were rumored to like him last year, so given that he has improved it's not a stretch to imagine they still like him this year. But he's not the most pressing need unless there's a trade lined up.

              But I guess I shouldn't be surprised that so many potentially good guys are high in the lottery, while a guy that appears to at the very least be a solid starter is projected to go between 17-24. Such is the NBA Draft. Bird seems to have a preference for drafting those kinds of sure things though. Johnson may be target #1, but perhaps someone secure like Lawson is #2. He will surely be there at 13.

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