View Poll Results: Would you want him?

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  • Absolutely

    17 42.50%
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    8 20.00%
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Thread: EARL CLARK

  1. #51
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by billbradley View Post
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    SLAMonline Mock Draft: Earl Clark, No. 13

    Indiana needs this tough guy who does it all.

    by DeMarco Williams

    http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba...k-draft-no-13/

    With the 13th pick in the 2009 SLAMonline Mock Draft, the Indiana Pacers select…

    Earl Clark. Drafting players is a lot like meeting a girl on Match.com. Sure, you’ve peeped 10 great pictures of the mystery lady online repeatedly, but until you see her standing at the Cheesecake Factory hostess desk for the first time, you’re not really sure what to expect. Earl Clark, the ridiculously-athletic forward who did Louisville’s dirty work while Terrence Williams was getting the ESPN highlights, is, well, the Pacers’ date for next season.

    Indiana finished 36-46 a year ago. In one conference, that record would have been cause for panic. In the other, it’s just another way of saying your team was only one player away from a 6th seed in the playoffs. Thankfully for the Pacers, they play in the latter conference.

    Danny Granger, the NBA’s most improved player, was the main reason Indiana came thiiiis close to making the postseason. The two-headed PG of TJ Ford and Jarrett Jack kept things in motion. Troy Murphy manned the middle respectably. And when they weren’t at the doctor’s office, the MDs, Mike Dunleavy Jr. and Marquis Daniels, were a headache for the opposition.

    The Pacers have potential at every position. Unfortunately for hoops fans in the Hoosier State, they rarely showed it consistently. A do-it-all like Clark would be a heaven send. At 6-10, Clark is long enough to mix it up inside with Murph and Roy Hibbert on occasions, but he’s more than ball hungry enough to help Grange and Dunleavy during any offensive lulls. Lest we forget, Clark led the loaded Louisville Cardinals in scoring last season.The kid simply adores the hoop.

    Of course, Indiana’s problem isn’t really with putting the ball in the hole. It’s actually with preventing others from having their way with the scoreboard. Squads averaged 106 ppg versus the Pacers. That’s 5th worst in the League. They gave up 115 or more 21 times. While Clark would be the first –Wait, actually Cardinals coach Rick Pitino might be first- to tell you he needs some work with his defensive fundamentals, things like a growing physique (228 pounds and expanding), a crazy wingspan, sound footwork and a knack for the big block and rebound only make learning that much easier.

    Still, the essential point with the Pacers is that they aren’t missing much. Somebody like Clark, a genuinely decent kid with more upside than Facebook in ‘07, can come in, learn his role (hustle, tussle and bust on you) and thrive for Coach Jim O’Brien. There are some who say Wake Forest’s James Johnson could have done the same things. Maybe so. But this whole draft thing is like meeting a virtual crush in person for the first time. Might as well go with the one who appeared the most promising in the pictures.


    I honestly think this kid's our guy.
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Here's the thing we have one side saying, "Clark has issues maintaining focus and motivation." then we have another saying "These accusations are not based in reality."

    Part of me, due to the fact that we heard the same two sided debate after the Williams pick, says where there is smoke there is fire, and that we should stay away. The other part of me says that you're gonna kick yourself if you miss out on a good talent because of that fear. Tough choice to make. If Clark is there at 13 and we are KEEPING the pick, I think it could be likely that he is our guy.

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  3. #53
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Here's the thing we have one side saying, "Clark has issues maintaining focus and motivation." then we have another saying "These accusations are not based in reality."

    Part of me, due to the fact that we heard the same two sided debate after the Williams pick, says where there is smoke there is fire, and that we should stay away. The other part of me says that you're gonna kick yourself if you miss out on a good talent because of that fear. Tough choice to make. If Clark is there at 13 and we are KEEPING the pick, I think it could be likely that he is our guy.
    I can completely ignore the "motivation" questions and ask a more important question:

    Is Clark going to be a good fit for us given what we know he is already capable of ( not what he can "potentially" become )?

    From what I have read about him....he has the skillset to be a SF in the NBA with the cavaet that he could POTENTIALLY BECOME ( and that's the key ) a PF/Frontcourt Player.

    Because I'm a pessimist and thinks that we must draft/aquire NBA Ready Players that are not only ready to contribute and ( hopefully ) fills a need....I'd prefer not to draft a Tweener that is more of a SF then he is a PF ( as opposed to one that is more of a PF then he is a SF ).

    Unless it appears that he doesn't have too much work on to transition his offensive/defensive skills into becoming the Low-Post Scorer/Defender on the NBA Level ( which doesn't appear to be the case ) that we are looking for.....based off of what we have seen from what he has done in College, he doesn't appear to be a consistent Low-Post scorer/threat ( given his preference to take jumpshots ).

    This doesn't mean that I think that he is not capable of developing and/or model his offensive/defensive game into a PF ....I'm just saying that I am entirely convinced that he can become the type of PF that we are looking for ( given time that we do not have ) based off of what he did in College ( given his preference to take jumpshots ). That amount of "uncertainty" is enough for me to pass on Clark....assuming that players like Henderson, TWill or Lawson ( while moving Ford ) are available.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    1. Is Earl Clark like Rashard Lewis?

    2. If so, does he need to be next to a Dwight Howard?

    3. Is Roy our Dwight?

  5. #55
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I can completely ignore the "motivation" questions and ask a more important question:

    Is Clark going to be a good fit for us given what we know he is already capable of ( not what he can "potentially" become )?

    From what I have read about him....he has the skillset to be a SF in the NBA with the cavaet that he could POTENTIALLY BECOME ( and that's the key ) a PF/Frontcourt Player.

    Because I'm a pessimist and thinks that we must draft/aquire NBA Ready Players that are not only ready to contribute and ( hopefully ) fills a need....I'd prefer not to draft a Tweener that is more of a SF then he is a PF ( as opposed to one that is more of a PF then he is a SF ).

    Unless it appears that he doesn't have too much work on to transition his offensive/defensive skills into becoming the Low-Post Scorer/Defender on the NBA Level ( which doesn't appear to be the case ) that we are looking for.....based off of what we have seen from what he has done in College, he doesn't appear to be a consistent Low-Post scorer/threat ( given his preference to take jumpshots ).

    This doesn't mean that I think that he is not capable of developing and/or model his offensive/defensive game into a PF ....I'm just saying that I am entirely convinced that he can become the type of PF that we are looking for ( given time that we do not have ) based off of what he did in College ( given his preference to take jumpshots ). That amount of "uncertainty" is enough for me to pass on Clark....assuming that players like Henderson, TWill or Lawson ( while moving Ford ) are available.
    I get this, but let me counter:
    At 6'10" & 225#, & a frame to add weight, I think he can be a PF. We play a style that will use his skills to do different things then a proto-typical PF might in other systems. He will never be a Dale Davis type, but I think the Lamar Odom comparison is quite accurate. While many will argue that LO has never lived up to his potential, if we could get what Odom is @ 13, in a weak draft, I'll take it.
    Also, being a "tweener" is not always so bad. Lamar Odom himself is a "tweener". I would put him in a "Good-Tweener" catagory. While maybe not night-in/ night-out the most ideal player/ fit at his position, his ability to move, guard multible positions & streatch defenses creates more positive mis-matches then he gives back. Other players, like a Austin Croshere, was a "Bad-Tweener". AC's skill set is more of a SG, but body & speed was a 3 or a 4. While he was a nice player in spots, he was never a player who could hold down/ start at any position consistently. Any advantage he gave at one position, he gave right back on the other. I do not see Clark having that problem as a 3 or a 4.
    With Murph peeking, & only having 2 yrs left on his deal, this would be a great time to add the "next" PF to this team. Again, I am not saying Clark is/ should be "Our Guy", but I think we could do far worse.
    Last edited by PacerGuy; 06-03-2009 at 11:12 PM.
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  6. #56
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I don't get the "tweener" thing, honestly. The issue is that he's got the skills of a SF and the body of a PF? Because 6'10" doesn't sounds "tweener" to me. Sure, he's light, but he'll add weight as he adds years. 20 pounds doesn't sound unreasonable, which would make him 6'10", 245. That's plenty.
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  7. #57
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I don't get the "tweener" thing, honestly. The issue is that he's got the skills of a SF and the body of a PF? Because 6'10" doesn't sounds "tweener" to me. Sure, he's light, but he'll add weight as he adds years. 20 pounds doesn't sound unreasonable, which would make him 6'10", 245. That's plenty.
    BINGO!
    That was the figure I was gonna use, but left off my post.
    I think 20# is reasonable (& probable), & with his shot blocking & quickness, he could be scarry!
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  8. #58
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerGuy View Post
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    I think 20# is reasonable (& probable), & with his shot blocking & quickness, he could be scary!
    Well in fairness, adding 20 pounds most likely means he loses some quickness. And right now it doesn't look like he has "big man skills" i.e., a post game, footwork, post defense, etc. Somebody who saw more of him could probably comment on that. So you maybe worry that he doesn't have the skills to play the 4 in the NBA.

    But it's hard to see him not having the body.
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  9. #59
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Well in fairness, adding 20 pounds most likely means he loses some quickness. And right now it doesn't look like he has "big man skills" i.e., a post game, footwork, post defense, etc. Somebody who saw more of him could probably comment on that. So you maybe worry that he doesn't have the skills to play the 4 in the NBA.

    But it's hard to see him not having the body.
    Fair enough, I get that, but also get that unlike a big who might have to try & develope his agility & skills, EC will bring those physical tools with him already. It is much easier to take a smaller guy, add weight, & teach technique then it is to take a big & try & develope the skill set. Kinda like it is easier to take a corner in football, add weight, to become a safety, then it is to take a linebacker, lose weight & try & teach coverage & add speed. I will admit that the body must be one that can be transformed in either case, & I think we both agree that Clark has the frame to be either/ both.
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    What weakness in this team does Earl Clark improve? People talk about him needing to be told what to do all the time like it's endearing or something? The kid is obviously a tweener with a low basketball IQ who vanishes for long stretches with a questionable work ethic. Sounds like Shawne Williams part deux to me. No thanks. This team needs to get tougher, rather have TWill personally.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I don't get the "tweener" thing, honestly. The issue is that he's got the skills of a SF and the body of a PF? Because 6'10" doesn't sounds "tweener" to me. Sure, he's light, but he'll add weight as he adds years. 20 pounds doesn't sound unreasonable, which would make him 6'10", 245. That's plenty.
    Doesn't anybody else remember JO's body going down the tubes as he "bulked up"? When you add 20 lbs to your frame in basketball it adds tremendous amount of torque on your joints. Basketball is murder on your knees as it is. Now imagine carrying around a couple sacks of potatoes while your playing. Noone can predict how someones body can handle that. We've seen it with countless players throughout time, and we're seeing it with Greg Oden right now, JMO. If a guy adds weight it should be natural weight as his body matures.

    It's not his size that makes me doubt his ability to play PF anyway, it's his game that makes me doubt his ability to improve our teams weaknesses. And truth is we don't have Dwight Howard in the paint to compensate. We need someone to help Hibbert down low. And not by spreading the floor on offense.

  12. #62
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Doesn't anybody else remember JO's body going down the tubes as he "bulked up"? When you add 20 lbs to your frame in basketball it adds tremendous amount of torque on your joints.
    Actually Jermaine started out in the 220s and bulked up to the 270s. He added 50 pounds, not 20.

    If Jermaine had stayed in the 240s, I believe he'd be a different player today.
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  13. #63
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    There are plenty of 6'10" guys in the NBA right now that have NO business playing PF.

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  14. #64
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    Damn....that was a really good pass.
    I'm not sure any current Pacer could make that pass successfully on a consistent basis.
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Actually Jermaine started out in the 220s and bulked up to the 270s. He added 50 pounds, not 20.

    If Jermaine had stayed in the 240s, I believe he'd be a different player today.
    Just the point I tried to make in a reply, but got a d*** error message & lost it!!!
    Anyway, I tried to say how it was not the 1st 20# that hurt JO - in fact that got him off the bench - but the later 20#+ that hurt him. I also mentioned Karl Malone & Dwight Howard as two others that have/had the frame & added much more then 20# & it helped them, not hurt them.
    As a young man matures, & a college player grows into an NBA body, 10-20# is natural, it is beyond that where I think you need to be careful.
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  16. #66

    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    You know, a point that may be worth making is that everyone is
    viewing our need at PF and the req'd skill-set with the assumption
    that whomever fills that slot needs to complement Hibbert as ideally
    as possible.

    Who says that Hibbert is definitely our C of the future and a guy who
    will man that spot for the next 8-10 years ? I like what I've seen from
    the kid so far too both on and off the court. But we are talking about
    a kid with some limitations on a team that won 35 games. How do we
    know that an opportunity to upgrade 'that' spot won't present itself
    in the next 2-3 years ? Or, if for whatever reason Bird and O'Brien
    are history a couple years from now, how do we know that a new
    regime won't want a different skill-set in that spot ?

    The bottom line is that we don't. The Pacers are still in a rebuilding
    phase and are a long way from where they want and need to go.

    Wether it's Clark or whomever else at PF or any spot other than SF,
    it's premature to be locking guys into positions on paper for the
    long haul.

  17. #67
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    There are plenty of 6'10" guys in the NBA right now that have NO business playing PF.
    Earl Clark is a shot blocker. He will be able to guard most PF's in the NBA. Dude has the best wingspan in the draft(height to standing length ratio).

    Here's all the PF's I can think of that are worth remembering:

    KG, Elton Brand, David West, Amare, Bosh, Gasol, Boozer, Artest, Dirk, Marion, Aldrige, Lewis, Camby, Jamison, Mcdyess, Maxiell, Lee , Gooden, Bass, B Wallace, Scola, MIlsap, Najera, Randolph, Joe Smith, Kmart, and Collison.

    With exception to guys like Brand, Randolph, Gasol, Boozer. Big guys with offense. Many BIG guys in the NBA can't score, so why couldn't Clark guard PF? Especially of the bench. In two more years and 20 lbs later, he could guard all fo the above. All Clark needs is some coaching.

    Beautiful bonus. He can also play SF defensively. With some coaching, I could see this guy posting up smaller guys and creating match up problems. As a PF he could bring other bigs of the block with his mid-range shot. He has solid handles for PF. Some of the turnover problems could decrease with slower guys guarding him. We as a team need interior defense and Clark is the best thing we can get. I hope and pray TPTB understand what I am talking about.

    Also, I have friends at work who have nothing but good things to say about him. The love the way he approaches the game. The way he runs the floor. He's a awesome shot blocker and has great hands. His focus on defense. Even after a dunk or a three pointer he'll just run back down the floor to play defense. They do say, however, he disappeares offensively, but they also say that Pitino's offense was bad for him and made him stagnant when his shot wasn't falling. Was too structured for him. They think he should have played in the post more, and claimed that when he did post good things happened. I like this guy and feel bad I didn't get to chime in earlier. Sorry Indy, this was more than a reply.
    Last edited by Noodle; 06-04-2009 at 11:01 AM.

  18. #68
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Actually Jermaine started out in the 220s and bulked up to the 270s. He added 50 pounds, not 20.

    If Jermaine had stayed in the 240s, I believe he'd be a different player today.
    Jermaine entered the NBA as a freshly turned 18 year old at 220 lbs. Clark is already what 20-21? He has probably already added 20 lbs since high school. And I don't remember Jermaine ever weighing as much as 270 lbs, 260 maybe. Clark definitely has the frame to add weight, but to me not only are you diminishing his strengths by doing so, you are putting his knees at risk.

    I agree Jermaine would've never had those knee problems if he had stayed at a more natural weight. That's my point. Lets not try to make someone something they are not.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiny Archibald View Post
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    You know, a point that may be worth making is that everyone is
    viewing our need at PF and the req'd skill-set with the assumption
    that whomever fills that slot needs to complement Hibbert as ideally
    as possible.

    Who says that Hibbert is definitely our C of the future and a guy who
    will man that spot for the next 8-10 years ? I like what I've seen from
    the kid so far too both on and off the court. But we are talking about
    a kid with some limitations on a team that won 35 games. How do we
    know that an opportunity to upgrade 'that' spot won't present itself
    in the next 2-3 years ? Or, if for whatever reason Bird and O'Brien
    are history a couple years from now, how do we know that a new
    regime won't want a different skill-set in that spot ?

    The bottom line is that we don't. The Pacers are still in a rebuilding
    phase and are a long way from where they want and need to go.

    Wether it's Clark or whomever else at PF or any spot other than SF,
    it's premature to be locking guys into positions on paper for the
    long haul.
    Because a descent center is probably the hardest thing to find. And we found one, IMO. Barring injury problems I can't see the Pacers in a position to find a better young prospect than Hibbert. When you rebuild you don't look to replace your few true assets, you add to them.

  20. #70
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    The player the Pacers draft is not going to get them into the playoffs next year or even get a lot of minutes out of the gate even if we trade up in this years draft. JOB is our head coach rookies earn their minutes. Our potential draftee must have good work ethic & attitude.

  21. #71

    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Because a descent center is probably the hardest thing to find. And we found one, IMO. Barring injury problems I can't see the Pacers in a position to find a better young prospect than Hibbert. When you rebuild you don't look to replace your few true assets, you add to them.
    I agree with this statement. It is very hard to get a Center to actually play back to the basket basketball anymore. You see more and more centers that play like PF and PF that play like SF.

    I think in most offensive systems you need one dominate post player and the second big on team being a PF or C should be able to play further away. In the pacers case we have the center but not the future PF.

    I should mention that I would prefer a PF that is able to atleast stay in front of man. IF Clark is that guy in the future then great.

  22. #72

    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    For those talking about Clark adding weight, he said in a DX interview that he was looking to add 5-10 lbs. That may be enough. He weighs 228 now (for reference Rashard Lewis and Lamar Odom stand 6'10" and weigh 230).

    I think a key part of the debate here is just what kind of PF you like. Some want the traditional back to the basket PF. Others want the versatile perimeter oriented PF. And that's why there seems to be mixed opinions on Clark. In today's NBA the more versatile PF is preferable IMO. The NBA doesn't let you play as physical now as they did in the 90s, and the game is becoming more oriented on drive and kick offenses, motions, and fluid guard-like players. Post players aren't allowed to "bang" as much as they used to. But having someone with good size that can play some in the post and have a good mid-range game like Odom and Lewis is an advantage because they can shoot, drive past big guys or post up small guys. In time, Clark has the potential to develop into this more than anyone we could get at 13 IMO. So, if we are looking to go for a 4, he'd be our best choice. But I'm skeptical about some of these PGs so that is why I'm liking Clark right now.

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    Member JaimeKoeppe's Avatar
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    He has the potential of being a Tayshaun Prince for us, but its going to depend on how committed he is to Defense. He just has times of inconsistency.
    Last edited by JaimeKoeppe; 06-04-2009 at 01:00 PM.

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    Banned Jonathan's Avatar
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I really believe a very promosing player will slip to the Pacers @ 13 and my guess right now (3 weeks till the draft day) is Brandon Jennings will be available @ 13.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I don't get the "tweener" thing, honestly. The issue is that he's got the skills of a SF and the body of a PF? Because 6'10" doesn't sounds "tweener" to me. Sure, he's light, but he'll add weight as he adds years. 20 pounds doesn't sound unreasonable, which would make him 6'10", 245. That's plenty.
    ZERO PF SKILLS. None. Not any, not a post game, not a quality rebounding game. So a heavier, tall pure SF that earlier in the year was even out at SG for Pitino.

    Awesome.

    Size is not the issue, motivation is not the issue. Between the ears is the issue. I simply think he is going to be really lost on most plays and it's going to drag down the rest of the team on both ends, and I don't just mean in his rookie year.

    Look, you watch the games off ball and this is what you see - TWill and he go to opposite wings on zone defense. TWill then has to constantly yell over to Clark to keep him in position and aware of zone overloads, backcuts, etc. TWill is running his floor spot AND Clark's.

    This happens EVERY GAME, not just sometimes. Clark is not a freshman at this point either, nor is Pitino new or is this early in the year.

    On top of this you also see him burned by these same cuts and overloads.


    At the other end he was great at being a one on one guy, the person you cleared out for. At his size he could pull up (silky) or drive for lane runners pretty well. He wasn't really Mr. Post though and at his size that's odd.

    Again these are all the factors that drew me to TWill so much, he does all of those things except shoot the consistant jumper. I do think NBA guys need to be able to hit a jump shot and Clark having that is a good first step. My concern is that he won't add to this once he gets to the NBA.

    He didn't make big strides in college so I don't see reason to expect that to suddenly change. Again counter with TWill who drastically improved his mental game. So the opportunity was there, he just failed to get it. I don't question his work ethic or desire one bit however. He never played lazy, just lost.

    All Clark needs is some coaching.
    Yes, if only he'd played for a coach that knew something about the game or had any history of winning. I mean being at USC with Tim Floyd really held him back....errr, wait a sec...




    Jennings falling to 13. Good luck on that. I'd be thrilled. Pass happy PG with about 30 different passes in his bag of tricks and a lump of humility from his Euro attempt. Sounds good to me.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 06-04-2009 at 01:59 PM.

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