View Poll Results: Would you want him?

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  • Absolutely

    17 42.50%
  • No way!

    8 20.00%
  • Doesn't matter to me. This is a weak draft.

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Thread: EARL CLARK

  1. #1
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    Default EARL CLARK

    Do you want to see this guy in a Pacers uni next year? I think he's our guy, and honestly, there's not much of a downside to him.
    Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Since I live in southern Indiana and talk with Louisville fans pretty frequently, I'm hesitant with Earl. He definitely has the tools to be a great player, but his work ethic has been questioned in the past. You ask a UofL fan what they think of him, and they'll tell you they love him, when he plays hard. There are a lot of times where he will just disappear throughout games making you wonder if he's hurt, or just doesn't have the drive to really excel. If he played his hardest every night, he would have been a top 7-8 pick in this draft IMO.

    A guy with his combination of talent, size, and athleticism should have been averaging close to 20 and 10 a game. Instead, he put up a pedestrian 14 and 8. Part of this is because of his work ethic, and another part is because he tries to be someone he's not. Of course this is JMO, but I always felt like he was trying too hard to be a guard by shooting 3's and taking contested outside shots when it was obvious he should be in the low post battling against the big guys.

    If someone picks him and can keep him focused while improving his work ethic, they could have a very good player on their hands.
    Last edited by Coop; 06-02-2009 at 02:34 PM.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I'm absolutely sold on him as a 3/4 who plays well in small ball.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    He reminds me of 2 players...
    AK-48 (lean, long arms, good defense, suspect shooting, unpolished offense) which is good and Shawne Williams which is... yikes!
    That being said, Clark is at least gonna start somewhere on the depth chart (someday).
    Remember, many lottery projected guys will never be starters, so I'll take him at 13.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Maybe.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    In a deeper draft, my answer would be no way. The Ps really can't afford a swing and a miss. They need help period.

    BUT....anyone in this draft at 13 is going to be a question mark, so why not?

  7. #7

    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Here's what I wrote to TBird a couple of days ago. I agree, I think he'll be the pick. Here are my reasons:

    The Pacers traditionally use smokescreens. We've "needed a PG" in the draft for a few years running (Marcus Williams, Acie Law, DJ Augustin etc etc.) and haven't taken one. Given that everyone once again is convinced we will, I bet we won't. I don't think one that really jumps off the page will fall to us (all bets are off if one does). Here are some of my thoughts:

    1. PG as smokescreen to get who we really want.

    2. We're desperate to make the playoffs next season. Giving up Jack or Ford for a rookie PG likely won't help that all too much. I could be wrong, but I know being a rookie PG is extremely difficult to learn. The franchise knows it needs to get back in the playoffs to draw fans back in.

    3. Given that, if we don't like our current PGs, the best way to improve them would be to get a current NBA PG rather than wait on a rookie who may not pan out due to height (Flynn, Lawson), red flags (Evans), weight (Maynor) or any other reason. So trading for Hinrich or S&T for Felton or Miller or someone would be a better "win now" option.

    4. Using the PG as smokescreen theory again, it throws everyone off. Mock drafts all have us taking a PG. Teams will expect us to. That way they won't trade up to get our actual target. Our 2 positions that we don't have "players for the future" are PG and PF. This means we're getting a PF.

    5. That PF? Earl Clark. He fits the bill of what we traditionally do. Experienced? Check. Good program? Check. No red flags? Check (as far as I know anyway). Tourney runs? Check. Big performances? Check. Versatility? Check.

    Bird loves getting proven, successful college players. He loves length. He risked a lot on Shawne Williams. If he's afraid to take a chance again, maybe he doesn't want Clark. But I think he will do a better background check this time. Clark measured out at 6'10" and can play the 3 and 4. We could ease him in behind Murphy, and he could get spot minutes behind Granger. He would eventually take Murphy's starting job or the majority of the minutes.

    He has good form on his shot which should mean he'll figure out the NBA 3. He can handle the ball. He can defend. He can rebound. He has a midrange game. He can post. While he is a perimeter oriented 4, that may actually be a good thing. Look at Orlando. If Clark pans out we could be a more athletic version of them (minus Howard, but maybe Hibbert is improved by then).

    We could be a match up nightmare down the road with a true C, and a 2, 3, 4 combo that plays out on the perimeter. Each of whom could shoot or drive or even post and be a threat. This has given the Cavs fits, and a lot of the elite teams struggle vs. the Magic who employ the same style.

    The last point is, if you want to win a championship and come out of the East, you better build your team to beat LeBron. We would have at least 3 legitimate guys that we could throw at him. Rush, Granger, and Clark could all take turns guarding him and frustrating him, while the Cavs would struggle on the other end to match up.

    All just a theory, and Clark was very up and down. But with our leadership group legitimate hard workers now, not just big talkers, I think the effort would rub off on him. There was a nice comment in a Ford column about Clark asking a scout how he could get better in his workouts. The scout said no player has ever asked that. So that's a positive sign.

    I hope to read your review of him, which will largely depend on which games you saw. But he certainly has the tools. He could be what Shawne was supposed to be, minus the red flags. I think Clark is more of a sure thing than Williams was. But who knows? He could be the next Tim Thomas. Potential never fulfilled. Let me know what you think, but that all makes enough sense to me to believe that's what we'll do. Just not enough big PGs in the draft IMO.

    TBird pointed out Williams could have been a Walsh pick, not Bird. Who knows though.
    Last edited by ESutt7; 06-02-2009 at 03:11 PM.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I'm gonna go with Seth's and UncleReg's assessment of Clark....he's more of a SF then he is a PF. We don't need another SF. He maybe able to "grow" into a PF....but I really prefer to stay away from Tweeners that I pray can become the Low-Post PF defending PF that we need.
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I'm not a fan of his at all.

    He's very raw and unproven AND he apparently does not have a strong work ethic...umm how about a big no thank you from me. Maybe if this guy had a great attitude I could see the Pacers taking a flier on him and just seeing what happens. But based off what I have read I'm going to say no, and also predict that he will bust in the NBA.

    I'll be pretty upset if we draft Earl Clark. If we do so, I'd stay away from your Capitol Area Burlington Coat Factory for a few days.
    Last edited by idioteque; 06-02-2009 at 03:31 PM.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I think there are some key concerns with his focus and ability to take over games.

    Yes, he has the tools to be a special player, but does he have will and want to be a special player? Against Michigan State in the tourney, he shot around 50% and MSU really had no answer for him when he drove to the rim. He didn't do it enough, didn't demand the rock enough, and they lost. He's kind of the college version of Lamar Odom. A guy who's super talented, but often vanishes on the court. I'd be happy if he ended up anything like Lamar Odom, but I'm not sure if he will be that. Seems to me he might just be a guy whose happy to be there (the NBA) and just kind of blend in on a team's roster. That's not a horrible thing, but it's not something I want out of the #13 pick.

    One of my buddies is a manager for Louisville. I'll ask him for more info about E-5 next time I see him.
    Last edited by PR07; 06-02-2009 at 03:30 PM.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    Here's what I wrote to TBird a couple of days ago. I agree, I think he'll be the pick. Here are my reasons:

    The Pacers traditionally use smokescreens. We've "needed a PG" in the draft for a few years running (Marcus Williams, Acie Law, DJ Augustin etc etc.) and haven't taken one. Given that everyone once again is convinced we will, I bet we won't. I don't think one that really jumps off the page will fall to us (all bets are off if one does). Here are some of my thoughts:
    All of those players you listed have been gone prior to the Pacers picking, other than Marcus Williams, and with his behavior issues it's easy to see why he wasn't selected.

    I think people get caught up too much in "smokescreens." I don't see the draft as a cat and mouse game, that has teams making their selections in order to block other teams. Maybe if a team is going to try and piece together a trade to get a player they know will be gone, but that's about it. (Just like a players trade value. It's not like the stock market that goes up and down depending on the day. GMs talk, they know the player's history and character problems. It's not like they only know what the papers report.)

    The Pacers and Trailblazers had their trade worked out days in advance with Bayless. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing. They knew that there was a very definate chance that he would slip, and he did. They had their plans set before the draft ever took place, before the public knew.

    The Pacers, just like any team, are going to have their order board ready. As players go, they will get checked off the list. If Clark is the next on the board and is available (assuming they don't have a trade to get more pieces with another team) he will be their selection. If a PG is rated higher than him, and their both left, the PG will be their selection.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    If any team uses Earl Clark as their primary power forward, they are in some serious trouble..

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I have no clue who will be a better pro b/t Clark and his teammate Terrance Williams.

    I do not know why some think we are strong at the 3 postion. Q6 over 7 million dollar option. Dunleavy injuried. Danny Granger needs a backup. I disagree with Clark and believe this team might stretch and land Sam Young.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    I do not know why some think we are strong at the 3 postion. Q6 over 7 million dollar option. Dunleavy injuried. Danny Granger needs a backup. I disagree with Clark and believe this team might stretch and land Sam Young.
    1. I do think that we're strong at the 3. I think we can reasonably pencil Granger in as playing around 70% of the minutes at the 3 spot for the next 5 years or so.

    2. I agree that we need an additional wing player, and that we should be able to grab one via this year's draft if we desire.

    3. What I do not want to draft is a player who can only play minutes as a 3. Austin Daye is a perfect example. He's not quick enough to play the 2 and not strong enough to play the 4. The only way we would ever be able to play he and Danny together is to move Danny to the 4, which I think is a poor use of his talent.

    If we want to draft a tweener 3/4 (like Clark or James Johnson) I'm fine with that. If we want to draft a tweener 2/3 (like T-Will or Sam Young) I'm fine with that. Even if we want to draft a 2 (like Gerald Henderson) I'm fine with that. Just don't pick a 3 like Daye or, to a lesser extent, Budinger.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I'm extremely skittish of him because of the Shawne Williams experiment, that being said, I'm interested in what he shows the closer we get to the draft. I could see the Bobcats taking him tho.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    I'm extremely skittish of him because of the Shawne Williams experiment, that being said, I'm interested in what he shows the closer we get to the draft. I could see the Bobcats taking him tho.
    I have no idea how Clark is in any way related to Shawne Williams.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    I have no idea how Clark is in any way related to Shawne Williams.
    Youngish tweener 3/4 with some really nice skills and a questionable motor.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    I don't care who we take. Just as long as we can trade our pick for Tyreke Evans. Bird might agree with this.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Youngish tweener 3/4 with some really nice skills and a questionable motor.
    Should be noted:

    Williams was a one and done freshman at Memphis. Clark was a 3 year college player, never had any off the court issues and Pitino speaks well of him.

    Clark is bigger and can legitimately handle big minutes at PF. Williams was really closer to 6'7" and just a wing player.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Should be noted:

    Williams was a one and done freshman at Memphis. Clark was a 3 year college player, never had any off the court issues and Pitino speaks well of him.

    Clark is bigger and can legitimately handle big minutes at PF. Williams was really closer to 6'7" and just a wing player.
    Believe me, I'm much more comfortable with Clark than Williams, but tweeners scare me for the Pacers right now. O'Brien already likes to screw with his rotations giving him guys he can play at multiple places only encourages that.

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  22. #21
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by ESutt7 View Post
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    While he is a perimeter oriented 4, that may actually be a good thing. Look at Orlando. If Clark pans out we could be a more athletic version of them (minus Howard, but maybe Hibbert is improved by then).
    I was with you up through here. Saying we'd be like Orlando without Howard would make us almost as good as the Lakers without Kobe and a tiny bit better than the Cavs without LeBron.
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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Believe me, I'm much more comfortable with Clark than Williams, but tweeners scare me for the Pacers right now. O'Brien already likes to screw with his rotations giving him guys he can play at multiple places only encourages that.
    Should be noted that Bird and Magic were really tweeners. KG and Dirk were tweeners coming into the league as well before they settled in at PF. Lamar Odom has carved out a very successful career as a tweener. If you can play, you can play. This league is about more about players and their talent than it is about coaches, positions or systems.

    O'Brien tried to win games with the players he had, and there wasn't a lot on the Pacers bench to choose from. He's far from the only coach in the league who would've kept guys like Rush and McRoberts glued to the bench.

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  25. #23

    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Here's some info from Draft Express:
    One of the more perimeter oriented players in this pool, Clark earns two dubious distinctions. First, he’s the most turnover prone, giving the ball away on 18.7% of his logged possessions. Second, his Points Per Possession of .85 ranks him last on our list. A bit stuck between the three and four position, Clark’s poor PPP stems from the fact that he took 5.3 jump shots per game (1st in our sample) and only managed to get fouled of only 9.3% of his possessions (23rd). Unfortunately, his ability to play the three doesn’t excuse the fact that he falls below the mean FG% in post ups (46% - even), fast breaks (54% - 16% below), pick and rolls (38% - 11% below), isolations (38% - 4% below), and basket cuts (55% - 13% below).

    Given Clark’s lack of efficiency across the board, the team that picks him will be banking on him utilizing his athleticism to his advantage to create mismatches and develop the type of consistency he’ll need to be productive. Obviously players who have as many tools as Clark deserve some credit for what they could bring to the table down the road, particularly defensively, but how much remains to be seen.

    Clark’s biggest problem is that he seems to be suffering from somewhat of an identity crisis. He’s a power forward at the NCAA level who wants to be a guard, particularly in the way he settles for jump-shots from the perimeter.

    The impression you come away with from scouting Clark heavily depends on which day you catch him on. On some nights he looks incredibly active, playing extremely hard, utilizing his athleticism to its fullest, and making very good decisions. On others, he looks completely asleep, disappearing for long stretches and being very passive.
    Given that (there's more in the link), I think there's a better player at 13.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Should be noted that Bird and Magic were really tweeners. KG and Dirk were tweeners coming into the league as well before they settled in at PF. Lamar Odom has carved out a very successful career as a tweener. If you can play, you can play. This league is about more about players and their talent than it is about coaches, positions or systems.

    O'Brien tried to win games with the players he had, and there wasn't a lot on the Pacers bench to choose from. He's far from the only coach in the league who would've kept guys like Rush and McRoberts glued to the bench.
    Earl Clark MIGHT be able to be Lamar Odom. He's not KG or Dirk.

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    Default Re: EARL CLARK

    Quote Originally Posted by PacerDude View Post
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    Here's some info from Draft Express:

    Given that (there's more in the link), I think there's a better player at 13.
    You can't simply use college stats to analyze a guy's pro potential.

    Example: John Hollinger said last season that, based on looking at his college stats, Anthony Randoplph was a sure fire bust and he even questioned whether Randolph should've even been drafted at all in the 1st round.

    Randolph was drafted largely on his potential -- in other words, he hasn't actually demonstrated he can play, but some folks think he might be able to soon. As you can probably tell, I'm skeptical. At LSU he had a poor shooting percentage and a mammoth turnover rate, and my pro potential ratings based on college stats gave him some of the lowest marks of anyone in the draft.
    Then what happened during the year? Just on a per 48 minutes basis, Randolph actually had one of the most statistically impressive rookie years of all time (it's true).

    http://48minutes.net/2009/04/03/digg...eresting-list/

    (Of course stat head Hollinger never went on the acknowledge this)

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