Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

    Lifetime, how many Indy wins is that for Team Penske?
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

      Originally posted by Los Angeles View Post
      Lifetime, how many Indy wins is that for Team Penske?
      15 wins...
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

        Originally posted by travmil View Post
        Why is there so much hate around for Milka Duno? I don't get that at all. She completed 199 laps, was running at the end, moved up from 32nd to 20th, and kept her car out of trouble which is something you cannot say about many of the drivers who finished behind her. Let me ask this: If you put any of the drivers behind her in her car, is the order of finish different for that car? Can someone explain the hate?

        I don't hate her. Kegboy was at the race and said he thought she did O.K. She managed to to wreck which is more than you can say about Marco.

        Some people don't like her because of where she gets her sponsorship money from.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

          Originally posted by Los Angeles View Post
          Lifetime, how many Indy wins is that for Team Penske?

          Like Bball said, it's 15....

          * 1972 Mark Donohue (McLaren/Offenhauser)
          * 1979 Rick Mears (Penske/Cosworth)
          * 1981 Bobby Unser (Penske/Cosworth)
          * 1984 Rick Mears (March/Cosworth)
          * 1985 Danny Sullivan (March/Cosworth)
          * 1987 Al Unser (March/Cosworth)
          * 1988 Rick Mears (Penske/Ilmor-Chevrolet)
          * 1991 Rick Mears (Penske/Ilmor-Chevrolet)
          * 1993 Emerson Fittipaldi (Penske/Ilmor-Chevrolet)
          * 1994 Al Unser, Jr. (Penske/Ilmor-Mercedes-Benz)
          * 2001 Hélio Castroneves (Dallara/Ilmor-Oldsmobile)
          * 2002 Hélio Castroneves (Dallara/Chevrolet)
          * 2003 Gil de Ferran (G-Force/Toyota)
          * 2006 Sam Hornish, Jr. (Dallara/Ilmor-Honda)
          * 2009 Hélio Castroneves (Dallara/Ilmor-Honda)

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

            Originally posted by Bball View Post
            I've always came in a bit of the back way without ever getting on/off the interstate. In year's past there were checkerboard signs saying "Race Parking" (or something like that) as we headed north. But I never saw one sign going this way this year. IIRC, we headed north and then turned west toward the bus area where the parking was. The area where we always parked before was the area where the buses arrived and departed from so there was no reason to be shuttled from the parking lot to the buses.

            That said... I thought parking was always 10.00 and the bus was 20.00 last year. Maybe I just paid with a 20.00 and got a 5 back and just don't remember it. Pretty certain parking was 10.00 though.

            Maybe all those years of getting there for the first buses meant I parked in a different place than later arrivals did and so this new arrangement changed things more for me than it did people that arrived after that first lot was full in years past.

            If the radio hadn't been talking about the traffic jams and crowd increase we would've tried to sniff out the changes more but we felt we needed to get parked and into the track before the gates got overloaded with lines.
            OK, that makes sense. We came from 465 north and then got on the new airport expressway that runs with I-70 which I guess is considered the "main" way. That's probably why it was so clearly marked for us.

            I swear parking was 20 but we always parked in the regular airport garage. Was there a specific race parking area back then?

            Regardless, while expensive, the shuttle was very nice.

            EDIT: The new airport is sharp looking, BTW.
            Last edited by Sollozzo; 05-25-2009, 04:57 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

              Originally posted by travmil View Post
              Why is there so much hate around for Milka Duno? I don't get that at all. She completed 199 laps, was running at the end, moved up from 32nd to 20th, and kept her car out of trouble which is something you cannot say about many of the drivers who finished behind her. Let me ask this: If you put any of the drivers behind her in her car, is the order of finish different for that car? Can someone explain the hate?
              I'm not sure she is hated but more accurately viewed as a non-racer - more of a survivor. That said, with the 500 purse being what it is maybe isn't such a bad strategy. I also think Grace is onto something about her sponsorship money.
              The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                Originally posted by travmil View Post
                Why is there so much hate around for Milka Duno? I don't get that at all. She completed 199 laps, was running at the end, moved up from 32nd to 20th, and kept her car out of trouble which is something you cannot say about many of the drivers who finished behind her. Let me ask this: If you put any of the drivers behind her in her car, is the order of finish different for that car? Can someone explain the hate?
                She finished 20th and 13 cars fell out. There were 33 cars starting the race.

                She was the only car on the track still running that did not to finish on the lead lap.

                There were several laps of yellow and also the yellows seemed rather evenly timed (I haven't looked at the numbers so that is just the feeling I got from being there). That helps keep the rabbits from lapping the slower cars.

                It's not always about hitting the wall and taking yourself out. Sometimes it's about a lack of consistency with your speed and line. It's about forcing drivers to take evasive actions due to that inconsistency.

                A driver has to deal with a driver like Milka differently than other slower cars due to the lack of consistency.

                If you listen to Milka's radio it is scary how much coaching goes on. It's not just 'spotting', and it's not just encouragement. It's a constant barrage of "Hold your line" "Let him go and then get right up on him and catch the draft" "Stay with him" "Watch your line in the corners" "You're __insert doing something wrong here__"

                Eventually, you hope she 'gets it' but even race experience doesn't seem to be sinking in very quickly (although Buhl says she's made improvements).

                She might not be wrecking, but that might be a product of how conservative she's driving the car and the downforce on it. But the question is how many wrecks, almost wrecks, and changes of position happen because she forced a driver out of his rhythm while she's tip-toeing around the track?

                Foyt IV has had his moments of being a rolling chicane as well and driving inconsistently. Ask Helio how he lost his chance at 3 Indy 500 wins in a row. Even now he had his grampa questioning him why his speed was going up and down so much during the race. Hunter-Reay (on his radio) blamed Foyt IV for his crash although the replay I saw didn't start far enough back to confirm it. RHR said Foyt IV slowed in front of him. His television interview didn't sound as accusatory though.

                In any case, Milka's reputation has been earned but maybe she is improving.

                Let's hope so...
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                  Originally posted by Adam1987 View Post
                  Like Bball said, it's 15....

                  * 1972 Mark Donohue (McLaren/Offenhauser)
                  * 1979 Rick Mears (Penske/Cosworth)
                  * 1981 Bobby Unser (Penske/Cosworth)
                  * 1984 Rick Mears (March/Cosworth)
                  * 1985 Danny Sullivan (March/Cosworth)
                  * 1987 Al Unser (March/Cosworth)
                  * 1988 Rick Mears (Penske/Ilmor-Chevrolet)
                  * 1991 Rick Mears (Penske/Ilmor-Chevrolet)
                  * 1993 Emerson Fittipaldi (Penske/Ilmor-Chevrolet)
                  * 1994 Al Unser, Jr. (Penske/Ilmor-Mercedes-Benz)
                  * 2001 Hélio Castroneves (Dallara/Ilmor-Oldsmobile)
                  * 2002 Hélio Castroneves (Dallara/Chevrolet)
                  * 2003 Gil de Ferran (G-Force/Toyota)
                  * 2006 Sam Hornish, Jr. (Dallara/Ilmor-Honda)
                  * 2009 Hélio Castroneves (Dallara/Ilmor-Honda)
                  The Yankees of Indy. Unbelievable.
                  “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                  “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                    Originally posted by Adam1987 View Post
                    Was there a specific race parking area back then?
                    Yes... there was parking right where the buses were arriving and departing from at the airport. I always wondered what happened when/if they filled those lots. But we always got there about when the buses started running so there was always parking there.

                    There was parking, a couple of ticket booths for the Indygo bus race passes, and a couple of porta-johns too.

                    For all I know maybe buses left from a couple of locations at the track. All I know is I came in off the backroads, drove straight north (easily following checkered signs), took a left, and then IIRC that was it... Make a left into the parking area, pay, get the boarding pass, and head to the track on the next bus out.

                    And now that I think about it... buses likely didn't leave from any other location because there was only 1 group of buses headed back to the airport from the Speedway and they went to the area I'm talking about. I don't know if they shuttled people to/from the terminal or not though.
                    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                    ------

                    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                    -John Wooden

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                      We parked directly across from the track. (Main gate) This was actually the easiest it's ever been to get from our lodging to the track.

                      The three-day parking pass was an excellent idea. I will get the weekend pass for the Brickyard, because I participate in Chevy Day and the quals as well.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                        ...Of course... there is the constant drumbeat to bring back innovation to the cars.... I'm right there with that drumbeat. I remember a few years back when Scott Sharp's team developed the 'soft limiter' which gave him an advantage to keep him out of the momentum killing 'hard limiter' and ultimately saw him win the pole that year. The media immediately jumped on this tiny innovation almost like they did with the Penske push-rod Mercedez. It became a story itself. I've long advocated opening the rulebook more for the Indy 500. .
                        Just to clarify... My point wasn't that the soft-limiter was such a crowning achievement. Instead, it was how starved the media and fans are for innovation that something as relatively simple as the soft-limiter created such a buzz at the time.
                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                        ------

                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                        -John Wooden

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                          Originally posted by Bball View Post
                          Additional comments:

                          Does anyone remember when Penske was 'the bad guy'? T-shirts that said "Anyone but Penske" weren't unusual. But at some point it all changed. Sure, there were fans too... and fans of his drivers... But there was always that "Anybody but Penske" undercurrent too.

                          Was it Rick Mears? Giving Al Unser Sr the ride that got him his 4th Indy 500? Did it change in '94 with fan favorite Little Al's 2nd win? In '95 when Penske's team didn't even make the race showing they were human after all? Maybe it was a view of the landscape without Penske during the split? Is it Helio?

                          Maybe it's all that rolled up into a realization that Penske has gotten where he's gotten by "playing the right way". Hard work, good character, and more hard work. He's not just throwing more money at running his team, he's throwing more effort at it. He's surrounded himself with quality people, and people that have a healthy respect for the Indianapolis 500 and open wheel racing.

                          Whatever the case, the Penske haters have all but disappeared.... and that's good. You have to respect what Penske has been able to do. 15 Indy 500 wins does not just 'happen'.

                          Congrats not only to Helio but all of Team Penske as well. They set the bar high for everyone.
                          As a Rick Mears fan, I was surprised to go to the track on race day in the early nineties and discover all the anti-Penske feelings. Penske does more than any other person (including Tony George) to keep the Indy 500 at the top of the list.

                          I think that became obvious during the late-90s and when Penske returned earlier this decade.

                          Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                          Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                          Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                          Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                          And life itself, rushing over me
                          Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                          Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                            Originally posted by Bball View Post
                            She finished 20th and 13 cars fell out. There were 33 cars starting the race.

                            She was the only car on the track still running that did not to finish on the lead lap.

                            There were several laps of yellow and also the yellows seemed rather evenly timed (I haven't looked at the numbers so that is just the feeling I got from being there). That helps keep the rabbits from lapping the slower cars.

                            It's not always about hitting the wall and taking yourself out. Sometimes it's about a lack of consistency with your speed and line. It's about forcing drivers to take evasive actions due to that inconsistency.

                            A driver has to deal with a driver like Milka differently than other slower cars due to the lack of consistency.

                            If you listen to Milka's radio it is scary how much coaching goes on. It's not just 'spotting', and it's not just encouragement. It's a constant barrage of "Hold your line" "Let him go and then get right up on him and catch the draft" "Stay with him" "Watch your line in the corners" "You're __insert doing something wrong here__"

                            Eventually, you hope she 'gets it' but even race experience doesn't seem to be sinking in very quickly (although Buhl says she's made improvements).

                            She might not be wrecking, but that might be a product of how conservative she's driving the car and the downforce on it. But the question is how many wrecks, almost wrecks, and changes of position happen because she forced a driver out of his rhythm while she's tip-toeing around the track?

                            Foyt IV has had his moments of being a rolling chicane as well and driving inconsistently. Ask Helio how he lost his chance at 3 Indy 500 wins in a row. Even now he had his grampa questioning him why his speed was going up and down so much during the race. Hunter-Reay (on his radio) blamed Foyt IV for his crash although the replay I saw didn't start far enough back to confirm it. RHR said Foyt IV slowed in front of him. His television interview didn't sound as accusatory though.

                            In any case, Milka's reputation has been earned but maybe she is improving.

                            Let's hope so...
                            I can appreciate all of that. But the fact remains that she didn't make the same mistakes that many of the drivers behind her did, and therefore had a much better day. She was running at the finish and they were not. Again I ask, if you had given her car to the drivers behind her, does that car do better? Or do they crash it on lap 1 like Marco, or yet again crash out of Indy like Kanaan?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                              Originally posted by Bball View Post
                              Instead, it was how starved the media and fans are for innovation that something as relatively simple as the soft-limiter created such a buzz at the time.
                              That's what a spec-series will get you. Being more creative than the rulebook used to mean you had an advantage until 1) other teams figured it out or 2) they wrote a rule against it. Now, you're not in line with the rulebook, you're DQ'd.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Bball's Indy 500 Photos and Comments (2009)

                                Originally posted by travmil View Post
                                Let me ask this: If you put any of the drivers behind her in her car, is the order of finish different for that car? Can someone explain the hate?
                                Since teammates John Andretti and Mike Conway finished a lap ahead of her I think it's reasonable to assume that several of the drivers behind her would've fared better in her car.

                                Some are out because they had cars capable of winning and played their hands a little too aggressively. Maybe in a second tier ride like Milka's they don't drive quite so aggressively. Some of them are out because Milka is the car that broke their rhythm and caused them to get out of the groove and into the wall. Last year's Rookie of the Year Hunter-Reay claimed to have a car with gremlins that his team couldn't figure out... and that his teammate confirmed wasn't just RHR's imagination. Assuming Milka's car felt better to him, I could see him doing better with it.

                                Oriel Servia's car fell out with a mechanical (or electrical) gremlin... I easily could see him doing better in her car.

                                Vitor would certainly have done better and it's really hard to assign blame to him for the accident he was involved in.

                                Tony Kanaan's car had something break to put him in the wall. He easily would've been in a position to do better in a car that didn't break on its own.

                                Just because a driver made an aggressive move in a car capable of being aggressive doesn't mean they'd make that same mistake in a car that wasn't quite as capable.

                                Last year Buddy Rice drove a D-R car to 8th place at the 500 so that's another sign the team can prepare a Top 10 car if the driver can do his/her part (Milka drove for D-R).

                                BTW- How is it Buddy Rice, a recent 500 winner, couldn't get a ride? If Tony George is looking for something to 'fix' he better look at that scenario fully. Does the IRL have a program to help drivers find sponsorship? Maybe they need one.

                                Maybe they need a program where an Indylights team is qualified for some type of IRL funding if they put a veteran 500 driver in a one-off Indy program. Utilize some of the track corporate sponsorship opportunities to fund that program.
                                Last edited by Bball; 05-26-2009, 01:02 PM.
                                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                                ------

                                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                                -John Wooden

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X