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Thread: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

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    Default Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    I don't have enough tonight for a typical long winded 10000 word manifesto, but some things on my mind are crying out for discussion, and I haven't yet seen them discussed on this board.

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    First of all, a big community thank you to the Indianapolis Colts and owner Jim Irsay for stepping up and keeping the IHSAA football state finals in Lucas Oil Stadium.

    The IHSAA announced today in a press release that the Colts have agreed to sponsor the entire IHSAA football tournament, with games all across Indiana at the sectional, regional, and semi-state level, before culminating in the annual 2 day state finals for the five classes that takes place around thanksgiving.

    For those of you who do not know the background of this, the IHSAA was going to be forced to move the state football championships due to the severe price increase charged by the CIB to the IHSAA for use of the facility. That was a severe thorn in my side as high school sports supporter, as it seemed very wrong to me that a building paid for on the backs of the Indiana taxpayers wasn't going to be used to support our own Indiana student athletes.

    Essentially from what I have read so far, it appears that the Colts are going to make up the difference in cost between the state finals former home (the dearly departed RCA Dome) to the brand new spectacular Lucas Oil Stadium. In return the Colts will bask in the good press, and will likely have a marketing presence in high schools that play football all across the state, from Evansville to Michigan City and all points in between.

    The cynic in me wants to point out that some of this is being done as solely a media ploy to distract from the Colts not agreeing to volunteer to help the CIB out of its finacial mess (even though I am someone who doesn't think the Colts should be blamed for making a good deal), but even if this is just a cynical ploy to gain goodwill, it still makes me happy that the many student athletes and football fans will be the ones that benefit. Over 50,000 people watched the state finals 2 day extravaganza this past season, and playing in such a world class facility is a great thrill for the many student athletes whose teams advance that far.

    It obviously is a great move marketing wise by the Colts as well, who once again prove that they (and the NFL as a whole) GETS IT.....from the recent deal with Comcast to the memorable tour the Colts gave the Lombardi trophy all across the Hoosier state.

    No matter the motivation, let's give a big PD thank you to Jim Irsay and the Indianapolis Colts!


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    Pacers head honcho Jim Morris also understands marketing opportunities, but is hamstrung quite often by the idiotic policies of the NBA big wigs in New York.

    While the Colts are getting front page headlines for doing something minimal today, the Pacers have been a sponsor of the IHSAA for much longer....how many of you knew that?

    The Pacers in fact last year implemented an outstanding program designed to help out young basketball players. It is on their team website, and was distributed in a press release that only a few ever saw across the state. In it, the Pacers buy uniforms for and sponsor entire youth basketball teams and organizations, hang banners in the participating facilities, and provide merchandise and even game tickets for young participants from ages 5 on up, both boys and girls. I suspect that they are even having some people in the organization make appearances, although I don't know that for sure.

    This Pacers "youth basketball" drive is admirable, and a great idea to help promote the game, the team, and the NBA. And it is also great that the Pacers discreetly help out the IHSAA. But most of the state doesn't know anything about it.....why is that?

    It's because of one of the dumbest rules in all of sports, the NBA's "75 mile marketing rule"! This rule states that the team can't promote outside a 75 mile radius from Indianapolis. How insane is this?

    This rule means the Pacers can't advertise in southern Indiana, which is a fertile potential fan base. It means they can't market their own great youth program in communities like Marengo, Evansville, New Albany, or even Larry Bird's home town of French Lick.

    This also means that cities infected with Hoosier hysteria can't hear a peep fron the Pacers in the north as well, as anyone more than about an hour away from Conseco Fieldhouse is excluded from the program.

    Imagine if the Pacers could hang banners in every high school gym in the state, sponsor the Indiana All Stars, invite teams from all 4 corners of the state (or even entire communities) to games as special guests, have players make appearances in small rural towns that love the game, provide tshirts and wristbands and hats to every elementary basketball player, host the Indiana Basketball Hall of Fame members for a game, get mentioned in every high school game radio broadcast as a sponsor, or provide balls and equipment to poorer YMCA's and Boys/Girls Clubs south of Paoli or north of Lafayette. Think we might have some more young fans developing a love for the team? Instead, kids in these areas either don't follow the NBA or they end up being fans of other players or teams.

    David Stern, you need to get with it!

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    I know this is a small thing that probably doesn't matter, but why did we send Larry Bird to the draft lottery show?

    Bird seems to hate that type stuff, and he is about as telegenic as Elmer Fudd.

    It seems to me the smartest marketing move would have been to send Granger, just to give him some TV time and more press. Especially if we had actually won it.

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    I also wish our Pacers had more of a presence at the speedway. I wonder how much it would have been to sponsor a car, or even better to sponsor some other part of the event? How about a Pacer related pace car...what would that cost?

    If I were the Pacers, I'd be selling Pacers gear big time near the track, I'd have an autograph booth out there, I'd litter each parked car with a promotional flyer. You know what else would be neat? If the Pacers combined forces with a local brewery and came up with a special Pacers beer or flavored drinks.....something like "Larry's Lager" or "Pacers Punch", just to market at Conseco, or at sporting events within the state's borders, or maybe just at the race.

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    The CIB needs money, we hear that every day.

    How about a basketball tournament?

    Let's call it the real "Indiana Classic", and the teams can play for the "Governors Cup".

    The teams can be the college D1 teams in Indiana: IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, IUPUI, Butler, Evansville, IUPFW, Ball State, Valporaiso, and Indiana State....I might be forgetting somebody else. Anyway, play these games ove the Christmas break, sell the tv rights to someone, and try to recreate the old high school sectional type atmosphere. You could play these games in about 3 or 4 days, and I think it sells out.

    What do you think?

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    Ok, I admit it: I actually like Bob Kravitz usually.

    In person, he is a nice guy I think. And usually, I understand his job is to create discussion and get attention for the paper.

    But his criticism of bloggers the other day in the paper (which I just read today) aggravates me.

    I understood Bob's larger point about losing the personal touch in everyday life, and how that some people hide behind a keyboard to hurl insults and disrespect in a way they wouldnt have the courage to do so otherwise.

    But I saw no reason to criticize some of our fellow local sports bloggers over at some popular Colts sites that many of us probably read, such as 18to88 and stampedeblue, just because they use screen names instead of their real ones.

    That was a classic red herring argument, hiding the real fact that quality writing at sites like those football oriented sites, and the popular indycornrows blog along with the outstanding Pacersdigest we each know and love is threatening to run normal writers like Kravitz out of business.

    In this article in the Star, Kravitz criticizes bloggers by touting the greater access he has, and telling us that if we are as deserving as he is, to apply for a press credential. Let me tell you this Bob: I've had a press credential once this year, and when I did you and many other local tv media chose to stay in the press room, eat, drink beer, and gossip instead of go to the press conference or even watch the entire game!

    Access isnt an advantage for a professional writer unless he cares enough about his craft to actually use it. And quite frankly Bob, it has been pretty easy to tell for a long time that you don't actually care that much about doing your job as well as you used to....in fact, you mail it in most of the time anymore, forcing passionate, intelligent fans to use other means to discuss things and stay informed about teams you don't really care about Bob!

    Maybe instead of being critical Bob, you can learn something about writing with passion, instead of indifference. Maybe you can read a well written blog at stampedeblue or here on Pacersdigest and learn to respect your audience of readers, instead of your normal snarky attitude. Maybe you can educate us instead of talk down to us, and make us think instead of make us angry.

    The bloggers aren't the problem Bob, your lack of quality writing and a sincere appreciation for your craft is. There are a huge amount of people on here Bob who know more about the NBA and its issues than you do, and unlike you they all have jobs outside sports to take care of full time. But yet, they get scoops you don't, they give in depth takes on things you gloss over or ignore, and they have a passionate following, while you are either hated or just tolerated/ignored. You are turning into the sportswriting version of Billy Packer....and the sad thing is, you aren't really that bad compared to some other writers in other cities, who are even worse.

    The problem is Bob that you don't appreciate how good you have it. You have one of the dream jobs many of us would kill to have, and yet you just loaf your way thru things, complaining and giving half-assed effort in your work. I know you can be a better writer than you have been Bob, but you need to seriously dedicate yourself again to your craft instead of griping about the people who you should be trying to write to.

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    My draft analysis pieces will begin over the weekend. I've watched so much game films and Tivo the last few weeks my eyes are crossed. But, I enjoy the task of breaking down players in the end, even if it is time consuming. Like last year, I'll have about 12-15 or so profiles in detail, maybe a few more if time allows. I will not be doing players who have no chance to get to us, so there will be no previews of Hill from Arizona, for example. I also am going to omit any foreign players, or any players I havent seen or am having problems getting film on. I've been struggling getting Eric Maynor games for example, but I do have that problem solved and will be breaking him down eventually.

    So far, I must say that this is a tougher class to get a read on than this years, but I am excited about all of the point guard possibilities....there seems to be reasonably good depth at a traditionally difficult spot to fill.

    I'm sure Ill be doing most of the players you would want me to do anyway, but if anyone has any special requests of a player you want me to do outside the box, put it in this thread and Ill try and make it happen, if possible. I hope to get at least 2 posted this weekend, maybe 3 if I finish them completely.

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    As it turns out, I guess I was wrong....this turned out to be about as long as I normally write.....being succinct is not my speciality I guess!



    As always, all the above is just my opinion.

    Tbird
    Last edited by thunderbird1245; 05-21-2009 at 02:32 PM.

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    The Dude Abides MrSparko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    The Pacers partially sponsored Vitor Meira last 500. He even came in 2nd unless my memory is completely going away.

    Granted it was rather small but he did have two Pacer logos on his car.
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Good points about Kravitz very shallow coverage and analysis.
    And the NBA really needs to get rid of the 75 mile rule. It severely hampers teams that
    are not in big cities and really need to cover a much larger area to be sucessful.
    Very short sighted IMHO.
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    I think there could be some problem with the Governor's Cup tournament. Seems to me there are either NCAA or conference rules on how many out of conference games you can have and in conference games outside of the conference play.

    Also, kudos to the Colts.
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Have the Pacers ever lobbied to have that 75 mile rule extended for them? It would make more sense just to not be able to market within 75 miles of another NBA team...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    I've got a ton of marketing ideas that will cost ZERO MONEY outside of staff/organizational hours. That's no additional duckets, no printing costs, no contracts. AND my ideas improve the game atmosphere and improve exposure to a key target: the young people of Indiana.

    I'll post a treatise after a while.
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    I doubt the Pacers have ever bothered to try and get rid of the 75 mile rule because they know Stern won't go for it. Why? Anything that hampers the Pacers makes him happy.

    I don't think the Governor's cup thing will ever happen. I think some of the bigger schools aren't going to want to do it because it would be too embarrassing if they lost to ISU.

    Kravitz is a putz. He's down on bloggers because he knows if the bloggers (especially the good ones) had journalism degrees The Star could hire them and he'd be out of a job.

    On the other hand (and because Alabama Redneck thinks I'm a darksider), kudos to the Colts. (However, nothing says "ah memories" like freezing my off sitting outside at Warren Central High School in November of '79 while watching my undefeated school get beat by 2 points in the championship game).

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    So far, I just read the rant against Kravitz.

    Loved it, btw.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Another great analysis by Tbird.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    First of, Tbird you hit the nail right on the head. The Colts and the Pacers are really making strides in the community, and it's great that the kids will benefit from this newly-formed sponsorship.

    As I've been saying since yesterday, I will never understand the point of flying someone in for the Lottery. Brunner told me that is was to regulate the selection process. That still doesn't assure the public of the integrity of the process.

    I hate to admit it, but I do listen to Kravitz and Eddie on the way home from work. The noise is all I need, and sometimes the guests are pretty good. Michael Grady is pretty much the only person on that show that makes a lick of sense. As much as I hate the both of them however, it sickens me to no end how much Bob criticizes (on the program) the blogs and web communities. It is a never-ending thing with him.

    He complains about how many of the bloggers do not have credible sources, and since he works for a newspaper you can trust what he writes. What does that mean? His commentary is about worth as much as any old blog out there. It's nothing but poorly-attempted quirks and crude humor. Kravitz is also concerned about the future of reporting. If he would report and not throw his (lack of brain-mouth filter) opinions into every story he writes, maybe he wouldn't be as fearful of the art of news reporting as he is.

    It is rediculous how many people call into the show everyday commending him for his "great work" with The Star.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 05-21-2009 at 01:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Kravitz is also concerned about the future of reporting. If he would report and not throw his (lack of brain-mouth filter) opinions into every story he writes, maybe he wouldn't be as fearful of the art of news reporting as he is.

    It is rediculous how many people call into the show everyday commending him for his "great work" with The Star.
    Ummm Duke, that is what he is paid to do. He is a columnist, not a beat writer! A columnist gives his opinion.

    My beef is his lack of working knowledge on what he is paid to give an opinion on. The man is a columnist in Indianapolis, but his knowledge of racing and basketball on the pro level is very distracting to me.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    I like it when a teams GM/president is on the draft lottery show, I see it as them taking responsibility for the team being there.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I know this is a small thing that probably doesn't matter, but why did we send Larry Bird to the draft lottery show?

    Bird seems to hate that type stuff, and he is about as telegenic as Elmer Fudd.

    It seems to me the smartest marketing move would have been to send Granger, just to give him some TV time and more press. Especially if we had actually won it.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bird was on the east coast to accept an award in Boston. He no doubt just stayed there.

    I think sending Granger is a good idea, but I think the Pacers are a bit guy shy about marketing players. We'll see if they market any next season.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    The more I listen to Dan Dakich the less I like Kravitz & Eddie.
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Tbird, I think you have given Irsay and the Colts more praise than they deserve. The CIB made this happen by adjusting the rent on Lucas and as usual Irsay steps in to take credit for something that should not have been an issue to start with. There is a difference in blaming them for making a good deal and outright theft from the local community in the form of welfare for a professsional football team.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Tbird, most of these guys you're probably going to do analysis of for the draft anyway, but here's a list of guys I'd love to get your take on:

    DeJuan Blair
    James Johnson
    Jrue Holiday
    Jonny Flynn
    Demar Derozan
    Tyreke Evans
    Terrence Williams
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    I do not understand how Kravitz can criticize bloggers when Dan Dakich and Kevin Lee of 1070 both have blogs.

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    Thumbs down Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Channel 13's sports report on Wednesday, just before 6 said an Indycar sponsorship costs $5 (or was it 10?) million for a full car. They also said NASCAR is several times that amount, FWIW.

    I doubt that it would be wise for the Pacers to throw money at an Indycar sponsorship given the ongoing hand wringing over how much money they aren't making. Also, it is in Tony George's best interest for the Pacers to not advertise all over his "territory" near the speedway because when the Pacers are good enough, they play games this time of year, which competes for the almighty entertainment dollar.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Quote Originally Posted by DocHolliday View Post
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    Channel 13's sports report on Wednesday, just before 6 said an Indycar sponsorship costs $5 (or was it 10?) million for a full car. They also said NASCAR is several times that amount, FWIW.

    I doubt that it would be wise for the Pacers to throw money at an Indycar sponsorship given the ongoing hand wringing over how much money they aren't making. Also, it is in Tony George's best interest for the Pacers to not advertise all over his "territory" near the speedway because when the Pacers are good enough, they play games this time of year, which competes for the almighty entertainment dollar.
    That is incorrect. They actually said that the primary sponsor of an IndyCar pays "normally" close to $1 million dollars. A secondary sponsor pays around $500k. This is all dependent on who the sponsor is and how good the race team is.

    Also, the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is a major sponsor of Pacers Sports and Entertainment. There are no boundaries between the two entities.

    FWIW, Last year, the Pacers had their logo put on Vitor Meira's car, located behind the cockpit. It was probably about 6"x6" in size. You can see it in the image below a little left of his helmet. Meira was driving for Panther Racing then.



    The Indiana Ice last year primarily sponsored a car for the race.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 05-21-2009 at 01:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    I personally don't find any value in paying a big bucks just to put a sticker on a car. I may be thick-skulled, but I don't see how that puts a single butt in a single seat.
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Depends on where the money comes from - if it is something coming from the existing advertising budget it should be fine. I don't know how big the budget is, but it seems like a partial sponsorship would fit depending on other advertising commitments.
    BillS

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    I may be thick-skulled, but I don't see how that puts a single butt in a single seat.
    I agree on both counts.

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Can we start a campaign to get Gannett to replace Bob with TBird? What he just wrote is worthy enough for print, and is more informative on every aspect than the crap that lines the papers. No wonder why they're struggling these days.

    On another note, it used to be really hard to read your postings because of the length and the spacing. The above format was very easy on the eyes.

    (I don't know if it was intentional for effect, but using Bob over and over again gave me a chuckle. I just kept picturing you, atleast my invisioned you, pointing your finger in his face and scolding him.)

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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Angeles View Post
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    I personally don't find any value in paying a big bucks just to put a sticker on a car. I may be thick-skulled, but I don't see how that puts a single butt in a single seat.
    Of course I just realized it puts the race car driver's butt in the race car's seat.

    Last edited by Los Angeles; 05-21-2009 at 10:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Tbird topics: Kudos to the Colts, Pacers marketing woes aren't always their fault, a CIB fundraiser idea, calling out Kravitz, and a draft analysis preview

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Can we start a campaign to get Gannett to replace Bob with TBird? What he just wrote is worthy enough for print, and is more informative on every aspect than the crap that lines the papers. No wonder why they're struggling these days.

    On another note, it used to be really hard to read your postings because of the length and the spacing. The above format was very easy on the eyes.

    (I don't know if it was intentional for effect, but using Bob over and over again gave me a chuckle. I just kept picturing you, atleast my invisioned you, pointing your finger in his face and scolding him.)
    Along with T-Bird, an entire group of several posters who have other varied specialties and viewpoints regarding both basketball and business / marketing aspects of the franchise, as well as other talents such as photography and graphic design skills could be relied on as well to be a contract Pacers coverage team, with a byline "By Team Digest reporter(s) A and B, and photos provided by C".

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