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Thread: Links on possible Pacer move

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    As I mentioned before, don't get caught up with Vancouver. This has more to do with Indianapolis then any other city that could play host.

    My own speculation is that the Simons are looking to sell the team to a local interest. Getting the financial situation in better order probably helps that agenda.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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  3. #52
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    As I mentioned before, don't get caught up with Vancouver. This has more to do with Indianapolis then any other city that could play host.

    My own speculation is that the Simons are looking to sell the team to a local interest. Getting the financial situation in better order probably helps that agenda.
    That's what I've heard, but things like this still make me
    BillS

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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    That's what I've heard, but things like this still make me
    Same here...

    I think when push comes to shove, I imagine that all parties involved will come together to make something work. I can't imagine that the local politicians want to send an indicator that might imply that Indianapolis is in decline.

    Anywho, Vancouver might as well be Tim-buk-tu if you have a willing seller and a willing buyer. As for the Naysayers that say the NBA will never go back to Vancouver...You're probably right, but one thing to keep in mind is, "Who is the head of the NBA relocation committee?" Last I checked, it was Herb Simon. Remember the speculation after the sign and trade deal with New Orleans? Some were speculating that the sign and trade was nothing more then a "Thank You" from George Shinn for Herbie signing off on the Hornets move from Charlotte.

    All scary thoughts aside, I think something will come together because at the end of the day, politicians don't like their legacies soiled by sports teams leaving their communities. I remember hearing, "No mayor has survived losing a major league sports franchise" when the Oilers left Houston. I wonder if this streak still alive?
    ...Still "flying casual"
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Anywho, Vancouver might as well be Tim-buk-tu if you have a willing seller and a willing buyer.
    Better said, Vancouver might as well be New York City if you have a willing seller and buyer. IOW- As long as the buyer is willing and motivated to buy, the city he wants the franchise for is the city he wants the franchise for.

    And why are we so sure the destination is Vancouver and not Seattle anyway?

    -Bball
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  6. #55
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    BTW... I think the city will bend over backwards to give the Simons whatever they want. At least to a point (that point being until they pump the well dry to do it). Will that be enough?

    -Bball
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Just a reminder of what the total payroll was for all NBA teams this past season.

    New York Knicks $ 97,085,751
    Toronto Raptors $ 95,358,923
    Dallas Mavericks $ 93,215,017
    Cleveland Cavaliers $ 90,794,387
    Los Angeles Lakers $ 80,745,793
    Boston Celtics $ 78,738,973
    Detroit Pistons $ 77,046,985
    Memphis Grizzlies $ 75,819,691
    Phoenix Suns $ 75,449,279
    Orlando Magic $ 74,863,198
    Philadelphia 76ers $ 74,434,445
    Sacramento Kings $ 71,517,217
    Chicago Bulls $ 71,487,984
    Washington Wizards $ 70,558,149
    Milwaukee Bucks $ 70,220,238
    Indiana Pacers $ 69,623,798
    Houston Rockets $ 68,761,285
    San Antonio Spurs $ 68,403,480
    Atlanta Hawks $ 68,165,839
    Charlotte Bobcats $ 68,004,277
    Denver Nuggets $ 67,068,631
    New Orleans Hornets $ 67,017,804
    Utah Jazz $ 66,266,407
    Minnesota Timberwolves $ 63,527,135
    Golden State Warriors $ 63,287,110
    New Jersey Nets $ 61,983,445
    Los Angeles Clippers $ 61,883,344
    Oklahoma City Thunder $ 61,534,722
    Portland Trail Blazers $ 56,154,803
    Miami Heat $ 50,031,123
    You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

  8. #57
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Heck, I just had another thought...
    Since the Supersonics are gone maybe that translates to potential better support and numbers for a Vancouver franchise this time around. At least it could be the deciding factor in the planning process for an owner thinking about a Vancouver NBA team.

    ...Assuming Vancouver is even the destination...
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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  10. #58
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Heck, I just had another thought...
    Since the Supersonics are gone maybe that translates to potential better support and numbers for a Vancouver franchise this time around. At least it could be the deciding factor in the planning process for an owner thinking about a Vancouver NBA team.

    ...Assuming Vancouver is even the destination...
    Never considered that.... Vancouver and Seattle are just about a 2 hour jaunt on the I-5, apart.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Or... they won't care and continue to refer to the team as a bunch of thugs. After actually reading thru the comments on the Indiana Barrister site, it's pretty clear that the thug comments come from those that were never fans to begin with.

    I just hope the word "Vancouver" doesn't cloud everyones vision that there is a real problem. As I mentioned before, I don't think there is an issue with the CIB taking on the operation of the Fieldhouse. It's an issue of how the CIB is going to pay for it.

    I have a feeling that in the end, it's going to come down to the Marion County tax payers making a hard decision. It's pretty clear that no one at the statehouse was going to attempt a shot at a regional fix for the Pacers, as they did for the Colts. For those that live outside of Marion County...You may just be along for the ride, but have no influence where the car is going.
    I just think that if we got back into the playoffs people would see who we have. Just look at the Pistons. Not as many thugs anymore as there were during the brawl but they have a huge crowd every night.

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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I was being a Princess Bride smartass.

    I suspect you meant "... where no one wants to see professional basketball go away."

    Reread your actual quote and think about what it actually says.
    Sorry poor grammar on that one.

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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMurphy3 View Post
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    Sorry poor grammar on that one.
    You better hope they can fix that at UofIndy.


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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    You better hope they can fix that at UofIndy.

    I'm a pretty good writer. I don't know how I messed that one up.

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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMurphy3 View Post
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    I'm a pretty good writer. I don't know how I messed that one up.
    Don't feel too bad, I've had some pretty ugly grammar errors on this board that would make an illiterate person seem Ivy League educated.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    Don't feel too bad, I've had some pretty ugly grammar errors on this board that would make an illiterate person seem Ivy League educated.
    The problem was that I didn't proofread what I wrote. I was in a rush so I posted it and logged off.
    Last edited by Trophy; 05-15-2009 at 05:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Heck, I just had another thought...
    Since the Supersonics are gone maybe that translates to potential better support and numbers for a Vancouver franchise this time around. At least it could be the deciding factor in the planning process for an owner thinking about a Vancouver NBA team.

    ...Assuming Vancouver is even the destination...

    Interesting thought.

    However, I would think Seattle fans would be too bitter to support any non-Seattle team at this point (as I would be if I were in there shoes). I bet most of them will wait until Seattle has a team (which will be the Sonics) again before they care about the NBA.

    Of course, if there were a lot of Sonic fans back in the day that lived in Vancouver and didn't switch allegiances when the Grizz came then your point might be spot on.
    Last edited by Sollozzo; 05-15-2009 at 05:29 PM.

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  19. #66
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    Interesting thought.


    Of course, if there were a lot of Sonic fans back in the day that lived in Vancouver and didn't switch allegiances when the Grizz came then your point might be spot on.
    I was leaning this way with my thought as well.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  20. #67
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    I believe this is all horse-hockey as well.

    But another article popped up today. Considering it actually names "The Bleacher Report" as a source, I don't think we should put any weight into what it says, but I think it's worth keeping in the thread.

    http://www.thestarphoenix.com/Sports...893/story.html

    Vancouver's NBA dreams not dead yet


    CANWEST NEWS SERVICEMAY 15, 2009

    Former Vancouver Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley sings the national anthem before a game in Vancouver in October 2000. The Grizzlies relocated to Memphis, Tennessee, the following year.
    Photograph by: John Lehmann, Reuters


    Vancouver has been without a National Basketball Association franchise for eight seasons since the Grizzlies packed up for Memphis prior to the 2001-02 season, but the rumour mill is suggesting the city might not be a graveyard for the world's finest professional hoops league forever.

    The latest talk this week had Vancouver Canucks owner Francesco Aquilini reportedly interested in purchasing the Indiana Pacers and moving them to GM Place, the home of the Grizzlies from 1995-96 through 2000-01.

    Aquilini could not be reached for comment, but insiders, like the Internet sports site The Bleacher Report, say he has expressed an interest in bringing a second major team into the building which he also owns.

    The Indianapolis Star reported this year that the Pacers will lose $30 million US this season and also said that under the terms of their agreement with the Indianapolis Capital Improvement Board, are operating the home court at Conseco Fieldhouse at a cost of $15 million US per year.

    The two sides are attempting to negotiate new terms on a deal that started in 1999.

    Forbes magazine has valued the Pacers at $300 million US.

    © Copyright (c) Canwest News Service
    “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

    “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

  21. #68
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    To steer this in a different direction... Does anyone have any suggestions on how the CIB can make the coin to cover it's budget?

    Personally, I do like the idea of regional taxing authorities, but it is extremely unpopular for the people that live outside of Marion County.

    We all know that expanding gambling into Marion County is a non starter as far as the statehouse is concerned.

    User fees alone are not enough to cover the amount as BillS and I covered earlier in the thread.

    It goes without saying that anything from the property tax rolls will get any politician run out of town or the state... on a rail.

    As a Marion county taxpayer, but a fan... I don't care how the money is levied, but I can very easily say that I have 12 neighbors that would rather see the Pacers leave then squander a nickel to support them.

    What's left? It's easy for me to ***** about the lack of financial planning to cover Lucas Oil, but that doesn't change the fact that Lucas Oil is here and the CIB is short. My question is, how does it get fixed?
    Last edited by Roaming Gnome; 05-16-2009 at 02:00 AM.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    To stir this in a different direction... Does anyone have any suggestions on how the CIB can make the coin to cover it's budget?

    Personally, I do like the idea of regional taxing authorities, but it is extremely unpopular for the people that live outside of Marion County.

    We all know that expanding gambling into Marion County is a non starter as far as the statehouse is concerned.

    User fees alone are not enough to cover the amount as BillS and I covered earlier in the thread.

    It goes without saying that anything from the property tax rolls will get any politician run out of town or the state... on a rail.

    As a Marion county taxpayer, but a fan... I don't care how the money is levied, but I can very easily say that I have 12 neighbors that would rather see the Pacers leave then squander a nickel to support them.

    What's left? It's easy for me to ***** about the lack of financial planning to cover Lucas Oil, but that doesn't change the fact that Lucas Oil is here and the CIB is short. My question is, how does it get fixed?
    I still say, unless the NCAA nixes the idea, gambling will eventually be what they go to for this. I personally think they already KNOW it and it's just a matter of time as they cover their bases between now and then. This shortfall cannot be a surprise.

    Sure, politicians will say "not on my watch"... yada yada yada... And the ones that are still in office when it happens will be smiling wildly for the cameras at the ribbon cutting and talking about how this is another step in solidifying Indy as the "gaming" capital of the world (as they spin 'gaming' (which itself was spin for 'gambling') to include college and pro sports).

    We already have land-based, full-fledged casinos in Indiana. That hurdle has been crossed. French Lick doesn't even pretend to be a boat any longer. No boat-like facade (for those that haven't seen it since it opened, they've remodeled to simply look like a building (and match the hotel), no more fake paddle wheels or the like).

    In fact, I believe it's held up more now by the existing casinos and racinos in the state not wanting the competition than it is by politicians truly taking a stand against it. Their opposition to the expansion of gambling is just a convenient excuse for many of them to use until it becomes more politically safe to back a casino than to raise more taxes and fees to support pro sports (and sports in general) in the city.... as opposed to losing a pro sports team.
    Last edited by Bball; 05-16-2009 at 01:28 AM.
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  23. #70
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Rumor has it that Vancouver is getting an MLS (Major League Soccer) franchise, which could possibly stop any move there for now since having two new teams in the same year is probably not good for sales. I think that if this still happens, it will probably be a year or two down the line.

  24. #71
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Sports betting just passed in Delaware, which means its just a matter of time before the surrounding areas pass it. Will it creep to Indy in 10-15 years?

  25. #72

    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by BBall
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    I believe it's held up more now by the existing casinos and racinos in the state not wanting the competition than it is by politicians truly taking a stand against it.
    This is certainly right. But I think this is sufficient reason to keep gambling out of Marion County. All those other counties' legislative strength exceeds that of Marion County.

    To answer Gnome's question, aren't user fees and higher taxes on food and accommodations about the only short-term option? In the long-term, the state needs to shift tax burdens in several ways, and once that dialogue begins it will be possible to consider a regional taxing district or a commuter tax. It may take 150 new state legislators to get to that, though.
    And I won't be here to see the day
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  26. #73
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by JGray View Post
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    Rumor has it that Vancouver is getting an MLS (Major League Soccer) franchise, which could possibly stop any move there for now since having two new teams in the same year is probably not good for sales. I think that if this still happens, it will probably be a year or two down the line.
    Not a rumor, it's confirmed. http://vancouvermls2011.com/

  27. #74
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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    The Kings have a better chance of moving than we do.

    I never really knew why did the Grizzlies leave Vancouver for Memphis?

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    Default Re: Links on possible Pacer move

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMurphy3 View Post
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    The Kings have a better chance of moving than we do.

    I never really knew why did the Grizzlies leave Vancouver for Memphis?

    I don't think they got much support in Vancouver. Of course, they aren't getting much support in Memphis either (but they did get a brand new arena, which enticed them to the city).

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