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Thread: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

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    Default Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    This afternoon I continue the series I started last week about some of the looming key decisions our Pacers must make during the spring and summer of 2009. Part 1 considered the the debate between TJ Ford and Jarrett Jack, and the factors that will be considered when the Pacers front office makes its plans for the point guard position in 2009.

    Today I want to look at our inside players, and discuss the process of adding the type of big players we think we need.

    It is an almost universal belief, and one that I share personally, that to truly make a significant jump in results that we will need to add some athleticism, toughness, defense, and back to the basket scoring to our inside rotation of players. With our team defense being particularly porous this season, having someone inside who can play all around solid defense in the paint next season is imperative if we want to see our record improve.

    I don't think anyone would, in general dispute, that last paragraph.

    Many years ago, when faced with a similar problem in how our roster was built, Pacers GM at the time Donnie Walsh selected a big bruising kid out of Clemson, 6'11'' Dale Davis. Davis turned out to be the perfect fit for the roster that existed alongside him. His defense and rebounding complemented Rik Smits, his outstanding screen-setting helped free Reggie Miller, and his intimidation and toughness set the tone for our entire roster for years into the future. His ability to be able to step out hard on the screen/roll helped Mark Jackson and Travis Best recover to their men, and his size and strength enabled him to be able to play along side a smaller Antonio Davis without us giving up much at all when we substituted.

    While not the same exact type of player, many of the Pacers problems could be solved if they could get lottery lucky and be able to draft Blake Griffen, who is probably a better athlete and player than Davis was, especially offensively.

    But it is unlikely we get that fortunate as to get the first overall pick. ANd with my draft research being partially done, I already can see a major problem developing.....to paraphrase Rick Pitino, "Dale Davis isn't walking through that door."

    So the second big question I see for the Pacers to try and solve is this:

    IF THE BIGGER, ATHLETIC INSIDE PLAYER THE PACERS TRULY NEED ISN'T AVAILABLE IN THIS DRAFT, WHAT DO WE DO?

    As I see it, here are our choices:

    A. We could draft a lesser prospect as an inside player, perhaps someone who is slightly undersized, and try and get by. We could do this even though there isn't truly a big player we actually are all that excited about, just because our need is so acute. In this scenario I am assuming that the Pacers indeed do not find a player they love as an inside presence in this draft, but take one anyway due to need.

    B. We could take the money we have available to try and sign a free agent, probably instead of spending it on re-signing Jarrett Jack. We know from the first thread in this series that almost everyone is adamant about bringing Jarrett Jack back, even though I personally don't think it is realistically the smartest long term move.

    C. We could try and trade a remaining asset to another team and try to acquire our power player. As I see it, our current available assets could include Jeff Foster (a fan favorite who does make our team better when he is on the floor, but who also is declining, aging, and becoming injury prone and rather expensive in this current NBA economy), TJ Ford (who is tradeable but expensive, and in fact due to his contract you'll likely need to bring back both a young power forward you want plus at least one contract you'd rather not have), a signed and trade deal involving Jarrett Jack ( a scenario I favor and think is likely, but I am the only one who thinks so in the world apparently). In some sort of unlikely blockbuster money type deal, I suppose we could trade Troy Murphy, who will never be more tradeable than he is right now perhaps, coming off a career year. Any of these moves is likely to be close to money-nuetral, theoretically either letting us sign another cheaper free agent or drop our overall payroll expense for 2009-2010.

    D. We could just draft the best player on the board regardless of position, sign only cheap bigger free agents, and basically stay just as weak inside next year as we were this year, while we bide our time, save our money, and see who comes available later on. This almost assures us of not making the playoffs in 2009-2010, but it also keeps us from committing out of desperation to a move we may regret later.


    The first choice, option "A", is the simplest and cleanest. Draft somebody you are lukewarm on and try and sell the choice to your fan base, who already knows you need a power player anyway. Maybe this player ends up being a solid bench player long term, or maybe you get really lucky and he ends up being better than any of us (or even yourself perhaps) thinks they will be. Even if this player ends up being just a mediocre player, he at least probably is an upgrade over what we have now, even if he isn't the long term type player we need.

    Of course this is the problem: Outside of Blake Griffen, there isn't a single "power player" in this draft that I think projects even as an NBA starter, with the possible exception of one prospect I am reviewing that I won't name quite yet, as I am still studying him. More than likely, whichever big player you select won't help you hardly at all next year, because there is just a lack of talent and size that we need among all these power prospects.

    The last choice, option "D", means you probably end up with a better player from this years draft, as you took the best player available to you when you picked this year, and you'll likely be in the lottery again next year too. It also means you are basically conceding the next season before it starts, or hoping just to try and patch work your way again in the paint this year. This would be an example of playing McRoberts significantly more minutes, and perhaps signing a veteran free agent for the vet minimum to round out the roster. Next year after the season you can try again to solve your power player shortage with another year of perspective under your belt.

    This will probably be hard to sell to your fan base however, and it will be hard to sell to the guys you are hoping buy season ticket packages, luxury suites, and sponsorships at Conseco. It would be a clear sign you are hoarding money and likely are ok with missing the playoffs for the 4th straight year.


    Ok, so let's assume that both scenario "A" and "D" aren't the smartest way to go, just for arguments sake. That would mean that the following statement is true I believe: "THE POWER PLAYER/INSIDE ATHLETIC PLAYER WE NEED IS ALREADY CURRENTLY PLAYING IN THE LEAGUE"!

    Assuming that (and I DO believe that is a true statement), let me name some criteria I think we need to establish for any big player we bring in.

    1. Younger, athletic, with ideal size and body type. Potential to improve.
    2. No baggage, good guy off the floor and in the community.
    3. Needs to be able to play both alongside Hibbert AND Murphy (unless in the unlikely event you trade Murphy to get this player in the first place)
    4. Can't be so costly moneywise that it makes no sense or requires us to trade the farm to get him.
    5. If it is a free agent, all we can realistically offer is the MLE at the very very most, and perhaps not even that, unless we do it in a sign and trade type of deal.

    Just for fun, I compiled a list of names of various "bigs" in the league who we might consider. I am not going to rank them in anyway, and I am going to include some that I personally don't even like for us, just because I think they fit the profile somewhat. Feel free to comment or add to the list. Before you reply, yes I know that many of these players may not even be available at all, it is just a starting list of names!

    -Paul Millsap
    -Tyson Chandler (would need to include Murphy due to salary cap rules because Chandler is so expensive)
    -Brandon Wright
    -Brandon Bass
    -JJ Hickson
    -Tyrus Thomas
    -Joakim Noah
    -Anthony Randolph
    -Marreese Speights (you all knew I would include him)
    -Charlie Villanueva

    I am sure there are others I have forgotten to list. I tried to list guys with significant size in either height or strength that would enable them to play with both Hibbert and Murphy, which means they would need to be able to guard the opponents biggest player at times (since Murphy cannot).


    With such a glaring need for at least one and perhaps more athletic inside players for next year's roster, how the Pacers choose to go about trying to fill that specific need will be very very interesting. It will be even more fascinating if they decide like I basically have that the player we need is undraftable, because other than Blake Griffen he probably doesn't exist in this years draft class.

    I'd look for the Pacers to make at least one pretty aggressive, perhaps controversial trade for a bigger player this offseason, probably near the draft.



    As always, the above is just my opinion.

    Tbird

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    I wouldn't mind either of the young bigs from Golden State. Mareese Speights isn't going anywhere. Tyrus Thomas bothers me for some reason, but it's nothing I can substantiate. I like his athleticism, but he just seems to me to have the potential to be a bit high maintenance.
    Last edited by QuickRelease; 04-19-2009 at 06:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Brandon Bass is the most realistic good-case scenario.

    I would not want Thomas and Noah and I doubt the Pacers would acquire them.

    JJ Hickson and Milsap are not going to happen.

    Randolph is too skinny to protect his own mother, let alone the paint in an NBA game.

    Marreese Speight is a dream that will not happen.

    Charlie V is a nightmare I hope does not happen.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    -I see Boozer leaving (likely DET) so I see Milsap staying. Only if UTA goes max to keep Boozer di I see him available, & then i'm not sure we could out bid his other suitors.
    -I will agrue for T.Thomas, & I think he would be awsome here. I think his issues are related to the organizational issues in CHI more then anything. Before MJ & P.Jackson, CHI was a crap organization & team & w/ both gone they have reverted back. Only a gift from God via D.Rose has this team out of the lottery. T.Thomas was young, & surrounded by too much youth & iffy characters IMO, I a lot of his attitude issues are likely the result of spoiled youth syndrome. Take him away from CHI, place him on a team w/ good guys & a strond leader in the organization (L.Bird) & a strong team leaders (D.Granger/M.Dunleavy), & I think he is the type of talent we need. He still has mad up-side, & if asked to focus on defense, he could be awsome paired w/ either Murph or Hibbert.
    -I am a big fan of pursuing the NOH's in a deal for TC. I'm not sure what the talks centered around t/y, or if we have anything of interest to them, but I think TC's "D" & flexibility would be huge to our "D" & instantly make Murph & Hibbert better. If we can do this w/o killing all cap, I do it.
    -Speigths is not likely, though if I'm LB I inquire & see what it would take. If we could get him in a combo for TJ then that would work for me.
    -I like B.Bass from the little I've seen & heard, but would not get caught betting thefarm on him. 6'8" is still not the ideal size I want in a PF, but as others have proved (Rodman, Barkley), that should not be the determining factor to go by. If had for a reasonable price, or in a trade (something centered around Barea/Bass for Ford?) then OK.
    -I am not a huge Charlie V guy, but see him as a hit w/ some Murph-like shills & size to him. The questions about his drive & commitment scare me, though when he brings it, he's solid.

    Not much interest me, though H.Warrick for the right price would not be bad either.
    Last edited by PacerGuy; 04-19-2009 at 07:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    I think Josh McRoberts can possibly become the player you describe.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by dlewyus View Post
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    I think Josh McRoberts can possibly become the player you describe.
    So does McBob's agent.

    Seriously though,
    Maybe someday, but not likely n/y. He still has a long way to go.
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Tyrus Thomas has never been a player that interested me, BUT he seems to have improved the last 20-25 games of the season for the Bulls. He would seem to fit in the athletic "D" mode. He maybe something for TPTB to truly consider.

    Other PF's T-Bird didn't mention are

    Leon Powe
    Glen Davis
    Chris Wilcox
    Jason Maxiwell
    Antonio McDyess
    Luc Mhah a Moute
    Chris Anderson


    Chris Anderson would be my pick b/c of his toughness and "D". He averaged 6/6 this year. YES, I know of his past drug problems, BUT he's kept clean since being re-instated. B/c of the squeaky clean type players the Pacers need, he's not an option even though I like him.

    My next choice is Luc Mhah a Moute. He played mostly PF for the Bucks this season, but can play the SF as well. He should come cheap and has plenty of upside to grow. He's not a traditional PF, but I like him. He can play "D".

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Leon Powe is another player with some upside. Like Brandon Bass, he is a bit undersized but plays fairly big...is pretty efficient offensively...and can help defend the paint...not great but not bad. A starting role for either of them on the Pacers would be a step up for their careers...because they are behind all-star players at the PF position. I'm just not convinced we have the assets to lure them to Indy. In the meantime, Josh McRoberts is our best prospect at that position.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Brandon Bass is the most realistic good-case scenario.

    I would not want Thomas and Noah and I doubt the Pacers would acquire them.

    JJ Hickson and Milsap are not going to happen.

    Randolph is too skinny to protect his own mother, let alone the paint in an NBA game.

    Marreese Speight is a dream that will not happen.

    Charlie V is a nightmare I hope does not happen.
    Charlie Villanueva is pretty much the opposite of the player that you guys want. Avoid this guy.

    Brandan Wright maybe available, but he's not the big bruising/physical presence forward that everyone wants and I don't think the Pacers-Warriors match up trade wise in any kind of deal. Randolph is not available. He is skinny, but taking that into account, he's also one of the best pound for pound rebounders/shotblockers in the league at 19 years of age.

    Philly and Cleveland probably envision Speights and Hickson, respecitively, as future starters. They like those guys just like you like Brandon Rush.

    Milsap is highly unrealistic. He's a restricted FA and would require a sign and trade, which would require the Jazz to take back big salary and I'm not sure they'd want any of the Pacers big contracts. Same things applies to Carlos Boozer.

    Brandon Bass could be a partial answer. For one thing, he's a lot closer to 6'5" than he is 68". He'll hit the boards hard, throw his body around and score some garbage points inside, but he won't add much to you defensively. He would be PART of the answer, just not a complete one.

    But even then, don't the Mavs need Bass' services every bit as much the Pacers? I'm not sure what a realistic deal is.

    Best thing to do right now is just re-sign Josh McBobbies (should be able to keep him for cheap) and maybe another cheap guy off the scrapheap like Mikki Moore or a hustle guy you find in summer league.

    You can draft a guy, but at #13 in a bigman depelted draft, I'm not sure what you'll get and we all know any bigman taken at that spot isn't going to play much next year.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Charlie Villanueva is pretty much the opposite of the player that you guys want. Avoid this guy.

    Brandan Wright maybe available, but he's not the big bruising/physical presence forward that everyone wants and I don't think the Pacers-Warriors match up trade wise in any kind of deal. Randolph is not available. He is skinny, but taking that into account, he's also one of the best pound for pound rebounders/shotblockers in the league at 19 years of age.

    Philly and Cleveland probably envision Speights and Hickson, respecitively, as future starters. They like those guys just like you like Brandon Rush.

    Milsap is highly unrealistic. He's a restricted FA and would require a sign and trade, which would require the Jazz to take back big salary and I'm not sure they'd want any of the Pacers big contracts. Same things applies to Carlos Boozer.

    Brandon Bass could be a partial answer. For one thing, he's a lot closer to 6'5" than he is 68". He'll hit the boards hard, throw his body around and score some garbage points inside, but he won't add much to you defensively. He would be PART of the answer, just not a complete one.

    But even then, don't the Mavs need Bass' services every bit as much the Pacers? I'm not sure what a realistic deal is.

    Best thing to do right now is just re-sign Josh McBobbies (should be able to keep him for cheap) and maybe another cheap guy off the scrapheap like Mikki Moore or a hustle guy you find in summer league.

    You can draft a guy, but at #13 in a bigman depelted draft, I'm not sure what you'll get and we all know any bigman taken at that spot isn't going to play much next year.
    This was pretty much my take.

    Just as in the PG thread, there are a lot of things we're going to want to do, but very few that we'll actually be able to do.

    My guess is that we're going to do "D", along with the McBob action mentioned by d_c, here, (and the "A" from the other thread).

    I have no way to calculate the probabilities, but if forced to give it a number, I'd say over 80% chance in both cases.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    This was pretty much my take.

    Just as in the PG thread, there are a lot of things we're going to want to do, but very few that we'll actually be able to do.
    It's not easy to find. A lot of people are saying "All we need to do is add that playmaking PG" or "All we need to do is add that big, athletic PF who can defend."

    Well, what do you think fans of about 25 teams in the league are thinking? They're all looking for the same things. Heck, even the good teams that already have that defensive minded PF probably wouldn't mind having another one. They're coveted items.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by dlewyus View Post
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    I think Josh McRoberts can possibly become the player you describe.
    Be careful now, "conventional wisdom" is that Josh is and will always be a scrub, despite the fact that he was once a projected lottery pick (top ten) based on physical abilities and upside. Not to mention the youngest player on the team.

    He has a lot to prove at this point, but I would like to see what hes got next year with more consistent playing time... Roll with Murph and see what Josh gives you off the bench...

    As far as the draft goes, Im not impressed with the PF prospects where we are picking... I say go best player available regardless of position. This is a weak draft anyway so take the guy who looks to become the most tradeable asset later.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 04-19-2009 at 08:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Tyrus Thomas has never been a player that interested me, BUT he seems to have improved the last 20-25 games of the season for the Bulls. He would seem to fit in the athletic "D" mode. He maybe something for TPTB to truly consider.

    Other PF's T-Bird didn't mention are

    Leon Powe
    Glen Davis
    Chris Wilcox
    Jason Maxiwell
    Antonio McDyess
    Luc Mhah a Moute
    Chris Anderson


    Chris Anderson would be my pick b/c of his toughness and "D". He averaged 6/6 this year. YES, I know of his past drug problems, BUT he's kept clean since being re-instated. B/c of the squeaky clean type players the Pacers need, he's not an option even though I like him.

    My next choice is Luc Mhah a Moute. He played mostly PF for the Bucks this season, but can play the SF as well. He should come cheap and has plenty of upside to grow. He's not a traditional PF, but I like him. He can play "D".
    Didnt Maxiell sign an extension? I dont know why people are talking about him being a FA
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    The first choice, option "A", is the simplest and cleanest. Draft somebody you are lukewarm on and try and sell the choice to your fan base, who already knows you need a power player anyway. Maybe this player ends up being a solid bench player long term, or maybe you get really lucky and he ends up being better than any of us (or even yourself perhaps) thinks they will be. Even if this player ends up being just a mediocre player, he at least probably is an upgrade over what we have now, even if he isn't the long term type player we need.

    Of course this is the problem: Outside of Blake Griffen, there isn't a single "power player" in this draft that I think projects even as an NBA starter, with the possible exception of one prospect I am reviewing that I won't name quite yet, as I am still studying him. More than likely, whichever big player you select won't help you hardly at all next year, because there is just a lack of talent and size that we need among all these power prospects.

    Would this player you won't yet mention happen to be Patrick Patterson?

    That sure is who I am starting to take a good look at. A couple inches
    undersized, but with exceptionally long arms, great athleticism, and
    reportedly tough as nails.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Be careful now, conventional wisdom is that Josh is and will always be a scrub, despite the fact that he was once a projected lottery pick (top ten)based on physical abilities and upside. Not to mention the youngest player on the team.

    He has a lot to prove at this point, but I would like to see what hes got next year with more consistent playing time... Roll with Murph and see what Josh gives you off the bench...

    As far as the draft goes, Im not impressed with the PF prospects where we are picking... I say go best player available regardless of position. This is a weak draft anyway so take the guy who looks to become the most tradeable asset later.
    As much as people might have undersold McBob when the trade with Portland went down, people are just as much overselling him now. I know everyone loves the scrappy kid who hustles but let's stay real here. Which I know is asking a lot because Pacer fans are great at overvaluing our own talent.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    With our team defense being particularly porous this season, having someone inside who can play all around solid defense in the paint next season is imperative if we want to see our record improve.

    I don't think anyone would, in general dispute, that last paragraph.


    Plain and simple, I think we go for a PF/big man. That simple. >>
    >
    I know you don’t think there is anyone viable to date, other than Blake, but I think otherwise. Yeah, I know the draft is a long ways off and a lot of kids still haven’t declared, but I think there is an extremely short list of guys who could help fill our need besides Blake. >>
    > >
    I’m sure you’ve been looking at them, but I’ll throw the names out there;>>
    > >
    Patrick Patterson >>
    Dejuan Blair>>
    > >
    There’s been quite a bit of discussion on Blair on here. Not so much with PP, who is the guy I’m actually pretty geeked about and think he would be PERFECT here. I’m sure both guys are on your radar.>>
    > >
    I’m hoping we pick the biggest big man available. Or to quote you:>>
    > >
    The first choice, option "A", is the simplest and cleanest. Draft somebody you are lukewarm on and try and sell the choice to your fan base, who already knows you need a power player anyway. Maybe this player ends up being a solid bench player long term, or maybe you get really lucky and he ends up being better than any of us (or even yourself perhaps) thinks they will be. Even if this player ends up being just a mediocre player, he at least probably is an upgrade over what we have now, even if he isn't the long term type player we need.
    >>
    > >
    That notwitthstanding, I would bet the farm on your draft day big trade scenario for a guy who’s in the league already.>>
    > >
    I’ve been naming Brandon Bass all season long as I guy I’d like to see here. Speights is my personal wet dream since draft day and the same goes for Hickson….but they ain’t coming here.>>
    > >
    To a lesser extent, throw in Maxiell, Powe and Wilcox to the mix.>>
    > >
    To be honest, I’m not so much worried about getting a BIG man as I am a tough man.>>
    > >
    Matter of fact, I think you draft prognosticators are getting TOO hung up on height. Think back to some of the tough son of a beetchs, who weren’t giants. Charles Oakley used to give us fits…at 6’8. Xavier McDaniel, one of my all-time favorite players was 6’7…6’8. >>
    > >
    Till he ended up being an all star F-up, I though David Hharrison was going to be that guy for us. Just think what kind of team we have right now if he had lived up to just %50 of his promise. I’ll never forgive that simpleton for screwing this organization over with his lazy, clueless…uh…I digress.>>
    > >
    I strongly believe a draft time trade WILL happen and our PF need will be addressed.>>
    Last edited by Skaut_Ech; 04-19-2009 at 09:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smooth View Post
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    As much as people might have undersold McBob when the trade with Portland went down, people are just as much overselling him now. I know everyone loves the scrappy kid who hustles but let's stay real here. Which I know is asking a lot because Pacer fans are great at overvaluing our own talent.

    I tend to disagree. Mcbob was very undersold at the time of the trade, than there was a string of nice games about midseason where people started to say, "hey, maybe this kid has some game" which afterward he was inexplicablly sat again by Obrien. The brief flirtation was quickly forgotten and "Wait hold on, this is just stephan graham syndrome, Mcbob is a scrub" became the prevailing view again.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Josh is a sure thing or anything, but "hey, nice hustle guy, blabla" is not the whole story here, not even close. Josh is a hell of an athlete and he was once a top high school recruit and projected lottery pick for a reason, that is physical abilities and upside. He was a dissapointment at Duke because he never became the kind of scorer that people expected, had attitude concerns, and came out of college too early... as a result, he fell to the second round.

    I just get annoyed at people who act like Josh is some kind of "known qauntity" when he is the youngest player on the team with his kind of athleticism and unique skill set. If Josh was a first round pick (which at one time he was expected to be) and had the kind of hype and expectations that Rush and Hibbert did, people would look at him a lot differently.

    I don't mean to constantly derail threads about PFs with the "Mcbob solution", but I think people are missing the point. Somehow saying "I think Josh has potential and should get a little run" got miscontrued as "I think Josh is a sure fire hall of famer"... Im pretty sure nobody ever said anything to that effect.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Thabeet
    Blair
    Patterson

    Of those three whichever of Blair or Patterson is available, that is who they will pick.
    I just have this feeling the Pacers are going to get another player in this draft via
    trade of a current Pacer.

    So I vote option A. It may not be enough to get in the playoffs but it is going to be close
    Next year 41 and 41 is doable. The question is will it be enough.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by RamBo_Lamar View Post
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    Would this player you won't yet mention happen to be Patrick Patterson?

    That sure is who I am starting to take a good look at. A couple inches
    undersized, but with exceptionally long arms, great athleticism, and
    reportedly tough as nails.

    Living in Southern Indiana, I get some extra coverage of Kentucky than some of you probably do, so I actually watched Kentucky play on television live a few times this season. But, while I have some preliminary thoughts about them, I have yet to begin to put the microscope on Patterson yet, nor on Jodie Meeks.

    All I have is the preliminary notes I took on the games I watched all year, just so I could do this project again in the spring. Last year I did much of my evaluation from games taped or saved, this year since I have had the ability to plan better I actually took notes on the games I watched as I was watching them. But, I haven't began to evaluate anyone on Kentucky yet.

    I will say at least early that I think this is going to be a much tougher class to evaluate on the whole than last year's was....I felt pretty confident on last years class as I was going thru it.......maybe when I get to the end of the evaluations near the draft I will feel as confident about this years class, I don't know yet.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
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    Charlie Villanueva is pretty much the opposite of the player that you guys want. Avoid this guy.

    Brandan Wright maybe available, but he's not the big bruising/physical presence forward that everyone wants and I don't think the Pacers-Warriors match up trade wise in any kind of deal. Randolph is not available. He is skinny, but taking that into account, he's also one of the best pound for pound rebounders/shotblockers in the league at 19 years of age.

    Philly and Cleveland probably envision Speights and Hickson, respecitively, as future starters. They like those guys just like you like Brandon Rush.

    Milsap is highly unrealistic. He's a restricted FA and would require a sign and trade, which would require the Jazz to take back big salary and I'm not sure they'd want any of the Pacers big contracts. Same things applies to Carlos Boozer.

    Brandon Bass could be a partial answer. For one thing, he's a lot closer to 6'5" than he is 68". He'll hit the boards hard, throw his body around and score some garbage points inside, but he won't add much to you defensively. He would be PART of the answer, just not a complete one.

    But even then, don't the Mavs need Bass' services every bit as much the Pacers? I'm not sure what a realistic deal is.

    Best thing to do right now is just re-sign Josh McBobbies (should be able to keep him for cheap) and maybe another cheap guy off the scrapheap like Mikki Moore or a hustle guy you find in summer league.

    You can draft a guy, but at #13 in a bigman depelted draft, I'm not sure what you'll get and we all know any bigman taken at that spot isn't going to play much next year.
    I agree with all of this. Not sure why I'm even posting....hmmmm.

    I do see a Bass/Powe player as only a partial answer...to get some buckets in the post and provide some physicality. The reality is, what we really need (i.e. a long, strong Dale Davis type) is not going to be available unless we pluck him out of the draft. It might be a good idea to hedge bets and go pretty hard for a player like Bass or Powe.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    Living in Southern Indiana, I get some extra coverage of Kentucky than some of you probably do, so I actually watched Kentucky play on television live a few times this season. But, while I have some preliminary thoughts about them, I have yet to begin to put the microscope on Patterson yet, nor on Jodie Meeks.

    All I have is the preliminary notes I took on the games I watched all year, just so I could do this project again in the spring. Last year I did much of my evaluation from games taped or saved, this year since I have had the ability to plan better I actually took notes on the games I watched as I was watching them. But, I haven't began to evaluate anyone on Kentucky yet.

    I will say at least early that I think this is going to be a much tougher class to evaluate on the whole than last year's was....I felt pretty confident on last years class as I was going thru it.......maybe when I get to the end of the evaluations near the draft I will feel as confident about this years class, I don't know yet.
    Patterson is perplexing... He reads a bit like Ike Diogu on draft express but I haven't really watched him play much. People say he has big upside but he is ranked so low on draft boards and I cannot figure out why. There has to be some sort of red flag because if he really had the potential to be such a good player I would think he would rank higher. Anyway, scouts question his defensive awareness and thats a big worry for me.
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    TBird...After being on PD for awhile, I have to say you are the one person I actually look forward to reading.
    My only question is this...Why aren't you working for the Indy Star???

    You'd be a huge upgrade over Mike Wells, not only in that your writing style we be above a 4th grade reading level, but also because your comments are actually insightful...and as a bonus you can actually spell...and put together grammatically-correct sentences.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Living in Southern Indiana, I get some extra coverage of Kentucky than some of you probably do, so I actually watched Kentucky play on television live a few times this season. But, while I have some preliminary thoughts about them, I have yet to begin to put the microscope on Patterson yet, nor on Jodie Meeks.

    All I have is the preliminary notes I took on the games I watched all year, just so I could do this project again in the spring. Last year I did much of my evaluation from games taped or saved, this year since I have had the ability to plan better I actually took notes on the games I watched as I was watching them. But, I haven't began to evaluate anyone on Kentucky yet.

    I will say at least early that I think this is going to be a much tougher class to evaluate on the whole than last year's was....I felt pretty confident on last years class as I was going thru it.......maybe when I get to the end of the evaluations near the draft I will feel as confident about this years class, I don't know yet.
    The obvious question to you is......does there appear to be a Big Man that is in the draft that would likely fill that "Dale Davis" role that many of us covet so much?

    Barring Griffin and Hill, who could be the "Dale Davis" to the current versions of "Rik Smits" ( aka Murphy/Hibbert )?

    Blair seems to be the closest thing that we could possibly get in the draft ( assuming that the Nets don't snatch him up ). Have you watched his game?

    Although it hasn't been official, didn't Patrick Patterson say that he's heading back to KU?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Josh Boone seems to have fallen out of the rotation in Jersey.

    He seems to be a young tought kid that could fit well beside Hibbert as well as Murphy.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Tbird analysis: 2009 offseason Big questions, part 2

    Does anyone know if Detroit would be willing to part with Amir Johnson? I know he would not be the absolute answer but I think he would be a nice fit in our big man rotation?

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