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Thread: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

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    Default ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    With as much as I am not huge on ESPN's NBA coverage, there was an interesting article that took each rookie and gave them a player to mold their game after. This wasn't a comparison of players, but it looks at the areas each rookie needs to develop and gave a player that really epitomized the things that he needs to work on. They had both Brandon Rush and Roy Hibbert in the piece.


    David Thorpe
    ESPN.com

    Brandon Rush and Danny Granger

    "A nonfactor for most of the season, Rush has shown some big-time scoring ability recently. Still, he can learn two lessons by watching his teammate Granger, who averaged just 7.5 ppg as a rookie and had to prove himself in Year 2 before securing his spot in the rotation.

    First, Rush is not going to be handed consistent rotation minutes heading into next season, so staying poised and prepared is a must. Second, he's taken just 60 free throws all season, so watching Granger get 6.7 free throws a game should point out some areas that Rush needs to work on."

    Roy Hibbert and Pau Gasol

    "Hibbert is so huge that he can get away with things that don't look great. But he lacks the craftiness that is required of bigs who can't just use their strength and explosive power to move opponents and score on them with regularity.

    Gasol is as crafty as they come. He'll bait an opponent into jogging back on defense, only to suddenly spurt ahead for the easy dunk. Or he'll use a series of fakes and, just when it seems he's ready to shoot, add one more to finish the deal. Hibbert would learn a lot by watching Gasol in action."

    I thought is was interesting. Thoughts?

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    Member PacersRule's Avatar
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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Hibbert should also learn some of Yao's hook shots. They're almost impossible to defend.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Pau?

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Pau?
    It's an insider article...


    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...tudy09-Hibbert

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insid...ieStudy09-Rush

    The craftiness part makes some sense, but, on the whole, I don't think Thorpe's seen them play a great deal.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Comments are accurate as far as they go.

    The obvious miss with Roy is that he needs to increase his strength. He doesn't need to be a hulk, but he's pushed around far too easily. I think he has enough of a frame to support it (as opposed to Jon Bender).

    Bottom line for both is "how bad do they want it" factor in the offseason. Given that they had college careers, it will be disappointing if they don't make a big step forward next year -- especially for a guard like Rush.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    I'm in love with Hibbert's size. I think his first year has been somewhat successful in getting minutes and exposure, and I'd love to see him add more in moves, fakes, and passes. I don't want to say he's going to be great, but he's made comments in the past about wanting to be a great player, and I think he has the potential and the willingness to learn more about the game.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by scar View Post
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    I'm in love with Hibbert's size.



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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by scar View Post
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    I'm in love with Hibbert's size. I think his first year has been somewhat successful in getting minutes and exposure, and I'd love to see him add more in moves, fakes, and passes. I don't want to say he's going to be great, but he's made comments in the past about wanting to be a great player, and I think he has the potential and the willingness to learn more about the game.
    These are my thoughts as well. He plays with tremendous desire and passion and that tells me he wants to get better. And thats the key, IMO. Does he have the drive and desire to do what it takes to make himself great, like a Jordan or Reggie Miller?

    I like what I've seen so far. I think he'll be a VERY good player before he's done.
    Colt's, Hoosier, Pacer's Fan.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    And yet no TWSS.

    tsk tsk


    Roy doesn't need to be too crafty, and I just don't think he has the grace for it. Frankly I think he can get away with being a guy who's move you see coming a mile away and are simply unable to do anything about. Thus the Yao comment that was made. Jabbar is who I had in mind, that is late career Jabbar. And even Smits baseline spins into jumpers.

    When you are that tall you can deny most defenders any reasonable chance to challenge your shot, if it's the right kind of shot and set up. Kevin Love is the guy that pulls the Gasol stuff, the McHale stuff. That's exactly why I liked his translation to the NBA in fact, because he had the undersized man's game.

    That type of game is wasted on Roy's physical style I think. He's never going to be a duck under type, a fake you out type, and he shouldn't waste his time trying to be. It's going to take a lot less work just getting a hook and perhaps a Duncan like turn to baseline bank shot.

    In fact if there is anyone he should mimic it's Duncan and his offense.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    And yet no TWSS.

    tsk tsk


    Roy doesn't need to be too crafty, and I just don't think he has the grace for it. Frankly I think he can get away with being a guy who's move you see coming a mile away and are simply unable to do anything about. Thus the Yao comment that was made. Jabbar is who I had in mind, that is late career Jabbar. And even Smits baseline spins into jumpers.

    When you are that tall you can deny most defenders any reasonable chance to challenge your shot, if it's the right kind of shot and set up. Kevin Love is the guy that pulls the Gasol stuff, the McHale stuff. That's exactly why I liked his translation to the NBA in fact, because he had the undersized man's game.

    That type of game is wasted on Roy's physical style I think. He's never going to be a duck under type, a fake you out type, and he shouldn't waste his time trying to be. It's going to take a lot less work just getting a hook and perhaps a Duncan like turn to baseline bank shot.

    In fact if there is anyone he should mimic it's Duncan and his offense.
    Considering how much Duncan has become a face up player, I would much rather him learn from Yao. Some of his moves are almost unguardable.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Duncan is called Mr. Fundamental for a reason. He lacks the athletic ability as Garnet and Howard, and yet is a better low post scorer. Hibbert will never wow you with athletic ability, but if he learns to maximize his height and learn to face up and hit a 15 footer, then he will be a HUGE tool for this team.

    Yao faces up btw.

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    Formerly QuickRelease NapTonius Monk's Avatar
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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    I wish Larry would enlist the services of a couple of friends with Roy Hibbert. Namely, The Chief, and/or Bill Walton. Kareem worked with Bynum, and I wish we would tutor Roy the same way.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    There was no one more crafty than Mel Daniels yet we have never utilized this asset as far as I know.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    Duncan is called Mr. Fundamental for a reason. He lacks the athletic ability as Garnet and Howard, and yet is a better low post scorer. Hibbert will never wow you with athletic ability, but if he learns to maximize his height and learn to face up and hit a 15 footer, then he will be a HUGE tool for this team.

    Yao faces up btw.
    Yes he does, but he has a few nasty back to the post moves that I would love him to learn.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Facing up is critical to utilizing a series of post moves. The drop step being one of them. Face up, pump fake, dribble once, drop step hook. I know that we would want to limit Roy from putting the ball on the floor. But post players utilizing a dribble step creates different opportunities.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I wish Larry would enlist the services of a couple of friends with Roy Hibbert. Namely, The Chief, and/or Bill Walton. Kareem worked with Bynum, and I wish we would tutor Roy the same way.
    Maybe call up Rik Smits?
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Sorry about not providing a link.

    I think he was right on with a lot of the other players he used. He used current players for the rookies to emulate. I prefer some of the older players as some people have mentioned.

    I wish Brandon Rush would emulate Joe Dumars.

    I wish Roy Hibbert would emulate Hakeem Olajuwon.

    As for current players, Thorpe was trying to take an area of improvement from the rookies (Rush-aggressiveness to the hole, Hibbert-develop "crafty" go-to low post moves) and give an example of a player that had to develop the same way. I would love to see Hibbert go play with Duncan this off-season. He would definitely come back a changed player.

    There are obviously other areas that these players need improvement (strength, footwork, confidence, more individual moves, working screens/picknrolls, shooting, i could go on).

    I agree that we need to hire someone as a special assistant for Hibby.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    I wonder how Hakeem's portfolio is looking right now. Wonder if he could use some work.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    I like the Dumars and B Rush idea. I think Illguaskas and Roy would be a nice looksee.

    Roy's an interesting player. He already has a crazy number of moves, he just gets a little hurried sometimes. I'd love to see the sky hook reinvented, but I think it must be almost impossible for guy to do, since it was unstoppable and no one has came close to developing it since.

    I hope Roy's development comes on defense mainly and from experience. I hope we see continued progress because I think the foul trouble is the only thing that keeps him from really making his mark. He's a load down in the post and team's are already thinking about doubling him, at times. This will lead to hopefully year 3 where he starts setting guys up. He's already a willing passer down there. I would guess he could be very effective. JO didn't even improve to become below average at this until his last year here. At that point he rarely went down in the low post so it became a moot point.

    As for BRush he's easily the best two way player the Pacers have, imho. Hopefully as his responsibility increases on offense, his defense will stay at a high level. BRush's reputation as a good defender can only help him as time goes on and he'll be able to be even more aggressive. I really hope he starts over Dunleavy next year and deserves it by his play, even if Mike is healthy. Again, as good as Mike is, he just isn't near the defender BRush has been even as a Rook.

    My hope is both are opening day starters with TJ as a bullet off the bench offensively. I hope they draft a bruiser at Power Forward who can bring a physical element to the team and that Obie will actually play the bruiser even though he can't shoot 3's. Bring a bench of Dunleavy, TJ, and bruiser off the bench and let Roy and BRush start, I think you might have something to get excited about.

    but I digress.
    Last edited by Speed; 04-07-2009 at 01:01 PM.

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Regarding the article, I thought Thorpe's suggestions were spot on.

    I don't think Roy will ever be the bruising type of player Shaq, Howard, or even Zo was during his playing days so it makes a lot of sense to emulate a player like Pau Gasol. Gasol is about as crafty as they come on the offensive end of the floor. He has a great pull up jumper and he knows how to keep from having his shot blocked around the rim. He's a lot like Marquis Daniels in that he has a knack for getting shots off and score when highly contested.

    Pau's no punk on the defensive end either. He might not be all-defensive team material but he has good footwork and is a pretty good shot-blocker who stays out of foul trouble. He's been a consistently good rebounder as well. If Hibbert can copy even 50% of his game he'll be a much improved player.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I wish Larry would enlist the services of a couple of friends with Roy Hibbert. Namely, The Chief, and/or Bill Walton. Kareem worked with Bynum, and I wish we would tutor Roy the same way.

    I agree, but you are . This has been talked and discussed on this forum as well as other forums for years with it never coming to fruition. As far as I'm concerned, it would be an extremely wise investment, but with the money situation of the Pacers it's never going to happen. Even w/o the money situation it isn't going to happen. Dare I say David Harrison. As the old saying goes "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force them to drink."

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    Default Re: ESPN Article on Rookie Development

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I like the Dumars and B Rush idea. I think Illguaskas and Roy would be a nice looksee.

    Roy's an interesting player. He already has a crazy number of moves, he just gets a little hurried sometimes. I'd love to see the sky hook reinvented, but I think it must be almost impossible for guy to do, since it was unstoppable and no one has came close to developing it since.

    I hope Roy's development comes on defense mainly and from experience. I hope we see continued progress because I think the foul trouble is the only thing that keeps him from really making his mark. He's a load down in the post and team's are already thinking about doubling him, at times. This will lead to hopefully year 3 where he starts setting guys up. He's already a willing passer down there. I would guess he could be very effective. JO didn't even improve to become below average at this until his last year here. At that point he rarely went down in the low post so it became a moot point.

    As for BRush he's easily the best two way player the Pacers have, imho. Hopefully as his responsibility increases on offense, his defense will stay at a high level. BRush's reputation as a good defender can only help him as time goes on and he'll be able to be even more aggressive. I really hope he starts over Dunleavy next year and deserves it by his play, even if Mike is healthy. Again, as good as Mike is, he just isn't near the defender BRush has been even as a Rook.

    My hope is both are opening day starters with TJ as a bullet off the bench offensively. I hope they draft a bruiser at Power Forward who can bring a physical element to the team and that Obie will actually play the bruiser even though he can't shoot 3's. Bring a bench of Dunleavy, TJ, and bruiser off the bench and let Roy and BRush start, I think you might have something to get excited about.

    but I digress.
    Explain these crazy number of moves please. In nearly every single post up this year, i have seen the hook shot just about every time. He had that one drop step in the lane against Miami, that one spin move off the catch against the thunder, but he really has no post moves except the hook at this point.

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