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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Opinion, Please

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  • Opinion, Please

    Hoopologists,

    I have begun the process of filling out my ballots for the various NBA post season awards. In the past, I have relied on my own observations and the opinions of other trusted observers to fill out the ballots, but this year I'd like to add another element.

    Specifically, I'm curious as to what Pacer fans think of Danny Granger's credentials for the Most Improved Player Award. I have some preliminary thoughts on this and have identified three viable candidates, but I've found the folks on this board to be generally thoughtful and, for the most part, surprisingly objective.

    In other words, let me know what you think and why. There's always the possibility that I'm missing something, and I'd like to use this forum as a resource in this specific instance. In exchange, I'll share my ballot and the reasons behind my thinking once I've made a final selection.

    Thanks,
    MJB

  • #2
    Re: Opinion, Please

    I'm sure this board will give you a totally objective opinion on anything you ask...
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    • #3
      Re: Opinion, Please

      You can make a definite case for Durant over Granger. The only qualifier is that the Pacers are a better team, though Durant's team did a very good job of late beating SA. Granger comparable to Durant, but Durant probably means more to OKC, since I feel there are better pieces in Indiana than OKC at the moment.
      Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

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      • #4
        Re: Opinion, Please

        I wouldn't give it to Durant. His is a natural progression you'd expect from a second year player of his caliber. I don't think you can go wrong with Harris or Granger, it's definitely a tough choice.

        Jameer Nelson is the guy i was leaning towards earlier in the season, but he got injured.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Opinion, Please

          I dont think Granger will be a candidate for MIP. This isn't because he is a great player, I think its due to the fact that Granger had a great previous season. Even though he did manage to improve his game this season, there are some players that have improved more than he did.

          I think Durant, Harris, you might even have a case for Mo Williams, or Rondo
          "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


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          • #6
            Re: Opinion, Please

            Suaveness (and others),

            Please allow me to clarify my earlier post.

            I have already identified two candidates other than Granger, and having looked at both closely I feel I have a good feel for the merits of both. What I'm looking for is a compelling reason (or reasons) that I may have overlooked that might put Danny over the top. Though I appreciate your thoughts on Durant, I'm looking specifically for pro-Granger feedback.

            In filling out these ballots, I think objective analysis is critical; otherwise, the system doesn't work. That said, I want to give Pacer players the benefit of every doubt before officially filing my ballot, and at the moment my thought is that Danny is third behind the other two.

            Convince me that I'm making a mistake.

            Thanks,
            MJB

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Opinion, Please

              I find it hard to believe that Danny wouldn't win it this year. He has had one of the best seasons of any Pacer ever. He had a good season last year at almost 20ppg, but this season was special for him, over 25ppg, becoming the leader of the team. He went from good to All Star/franchise player.

              Who are the other candidates?

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              • #8
                Re: Opinion, Please

                I'm probably too harsh, but I actually feel like Granger took a step back defensively this year. I really just think it's Devin's award this year, I don't really think anyone else comes close.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Opinion, Please

                  Well first off we probably need to get the other guys out there too for comparison.

                  Devin Harris has to be on the potential list. Probably Durant as well. My issue with both of them is that for the most part I think each is doing what they were already showing last season, especially Durant. Paul Millsap is more of the traditional type, gets a lot more minutes, sees overall numbers increase, but the case is made that he earned those extra minutes with better play.

                  KD has no defense still. His main thing is his shot and his ability to dribble into it and rise over people. That's perhaps gotten better, but I'm not sure he added a dimension to his game.

                  Harris had a nice impact but again he was already somewhat this player. He was handed more chances to be that player basically. His FG% is down from a few years ago (ie, less selective) and his assists per minute aren't really any better. What you end up with is a guy that suddenly drew twice the fouls, which is a good quality by itself, but for the most part just started taking more shots and being more ball dominant.


                  Millsap is tough to argue against. Workhorse player, probably was already kinda this good but in fairness to him that's a lot more minutes and he avoided a big per minutes dropoff. I like him as an option over Harris and Durant for this.

                  GRANGER
                  **************************
                  Danny had the 3, no increase there. But DG's improvement comes in his off the dribble moves which was a specific issue we discussed last year. Many people noted this as a weak point, so the fact that he attacked that directly is impressive.

                  Beyond that though he's also added a variety of new shots that are legit (ie, he can shoot them with confidence and has the makes to back that confidence) which include catch and shoots off curls as well as drives to the rim. He used to lag Shawne Williams greatly on ability to drive to the rim, for example.

                  He was also asked to improve his passing and he's shown that too.

                  His defense is NOT better. Good help defender, not so hot on the ball. Bites fakes at a very high rate.

                  Another issue is that as good as he is, it's not like he was off the table last year. He was a 40% 3 ball guy with 19 a night, drawing a fair amount of fouls, rebounding better, already dishing 2 per game. We forget just how steady his growth has been. However that also means he's grown this year, his game CHANGED, he didn't just get more playing time.
                  **************************

                  Couple other guys that came to mind with improvement: Brandon Roy, John Salmons (sneaky improvement, seems under the radar), Ty Thomas, Nene a bit (but injuries cloud that situation), Nelson (pretty sharp last year already), Von Wafer, Ariza (I think he's a product of the team/situation).

                  Of all those other guys I'd say Von Wafer really struck me as a "who the hell" type of guy. He's remarkably poised, very quick and has a great overall game, and yet where did he come from. Perhaps not high profile enough to make it on the MIP list, but he is better without a doubt.
                  Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 04-01-2009, 09:34 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Opinion, Please

                    Granger is the only player in league history to improve his scoring average by 5 + points in 4 consecutive seasons. He is an excellent shot-blocker. He was on his way to setting the franchise record for 3's made in a season prior to his tendon injury (plays on the same franchise as all time league leader in threes made in career). He has drastically increased his free throw attempts this season. Has hit big time shots in the fourth quarter, and I believe I heard he is second in the league in fourth quarter scoring to D Wade. Those are some interesting tidbits when contemplating MIP.

                    I think these are pretty valid reasons, and I believe them all to be true. These statements are all made off the top of my head and I haven't done any research to prove these statements as fact.
                    Last edited by IU_sears; 04-01-2009, 09:35 PM.
                    "A winner is someone who recognizes their God-given talents, works his tail off to develop them into skills, and uses these skills to accomplish his goals." - Larry Bird

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                    • #11
                      Re: Opinion, Please

                      Danny is going to be the 1st player in NBA history to bump his ppg up 5pts 3 years running. thats pretty impressive to me. His improved every year.
                      Last edited by granger33; 04-01-2009, 09:35 PM.

                      AUSTRALIA'S NO.1 PACER FAN

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                      • #12
                        Re: Opinion, Please

                        DG will be the first player ever to improve his scoring average by 5 points in 3 straight seasons, finishing in the top 10 for his first time, as im sure you realize.

                        Stats-wise, DG makes a great case, as does Harris, another front runner.

                        But stats aside, as if you havent seen them all year, I would have to go with DG. I think he has shown the most improvement to his game in the league. A vastly improved ball handler, both in the open court and in the half court and with the defender riding his side, improved left hand, much improved passer and can anticipate when to pass before he has to, improved shot blocker(leads all SF's in blocks per game), always had a nice mid range jumper but i think that has improved also.
                        Last edited by ReginaldWayne; 04-01-2009, 09:37 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Opinion, Please

                          haha 3 people in a row say that

                          AUSTRALIA'S NO.1 PACER FAN

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                          • #14
                            Re: Opinion, Please

                            Originally posted by granger33 View Post
                            Danny is going to be the 1st player in NBA history to bump his ppg up 5pts 4 years running. thats pretty impressive to me. His improved every year.
                            What he said.
                            "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                            • #15
                              Re: Opinion, Please

                              I was wrong on fourth quarter scoring, he actually trails LBJ, Kobe, and D Wade.... not bad company to finish in fourth behind. He also has increased his FT % each season this year posting career best at 88.5%... Did I mention he leads the league in second quarter scoring?
                              "A winner is someone who recognizes their God-given talents, works his tail off to develop them into skills, and uses these skills to accomplish his goals." - Larry Bird

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