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Thread: RTV 6 | Panel Passes CIB Bailout ; Colts Refuse (Post 56)

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    Default RTV 6 | Panel Passes CIB Bailout ; Colts Refuse (Post 56)

    Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB
    By Mary Beth Schneider

    Negotiations are under way in the legislature to bail out the financially struggling Capital Improvement Board, possibly by raising alcohol taxes.

    http://www.indystar.com/article/20090326/NEWS05/90326030/-1/nletter07?source=nletter-news


    Looks like I picked a good year to give up cut back on pay more for drinking.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Hmm. Interesting.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Sounds good to me, at least from the outset.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    I would rather have higher taxes imposed on tobacco than alcohol.

    Either way, we need to get some money flowing.

    Sorry if that was too risque for politics.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB
    By Mary Beth Schneider

    Negotiations are under way in the legislature to bail out the financially struggling Capital Improvement Board, possibly by raising alcohol taxes.

    http://www.indystar.com/article/20090326/NEWS05/90326030/-1/nletter07?source=nletter-news


    Looks like I picked a good year to give up cut back on pay more for drinking.
    It will interesting if this brings back the debate on selling alcohol on Sundays?
    Just recently I thought I heard there was a proposal, I could be wrong. To me it just makes sense to allow it. Im not a heavy drinker so this dosnt effect me probably, but in this economy we have Change our way of thinking to survive.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Taxation was/is destined to occur. The CIB cannot obviously support themselves and needs an influx of revenue to continue moving forward and for sustainability. Given their current shortfall, as well as an additional expected shortfall once the Pacers re-negotiate their lease, there doesn't appear that they can survive without financial assistance.

    I predict there will be an increase in the alcohol tax with proceeds going to the CIB as well as for other causes. This is a long session and a deal will be worked out in the next month, I hope.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I would rather have higher taxes imposed on tobacco

    Yesterday a carton of cigarettes at the grocery store was $47 dollars. 2 weeks ago they were $40 for the same carton of cigarettes. I stopped at my local station and asked what their price for the same carton was. Answer was $52 a carton. I asked what happened, and the explaination was that their supplier raised prices March 8 and that there would be another raise in the price of cigarettes April 1 from the State. "Sounds like you are getting your wish."

    For the carton a week smoker it is going to be costing them $200- 250 a month for their habit. And to think I can remember when store bought cigarettes( Pall Mall, Chesterfields, Old Gold, Camels, Lucky Strikes, Marvels) were 2 bits or less a pack or rolling your own cigarettes from Prince Albert, and a 6 pack of beer was 8 bits.

    Yeah, raise those alky and tobaccy taxes!
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 03-26-2009 at 07:45 PM.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by RamBo_Lamar View Post
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    The idiocy of the CIB is what precipitated this mess in the first place.

    Now they want to raise more taxes to pay for their blunders?

    How about the legislature legislate the CIB and the dodos that run it out
    of existance. How about that for a bailout?

    And while they're at it, how about they pass a law that says any government
    official or politician who dare suggest anything other than lower taxes, eliminating
    them altogether, or smaller government, be subject to immediate punishment
    by guillotine.
    They could do that... but then everything would have "user fees" instead....

    The downtown Indy casino is coming to pay for the Colts and Pacers. It also fits in with the plan to make Indy even more convention friendly. That's my prediction. There will be sporadic opposition from this politician and that politician. New taxes and user fees will be proposed... some enacted... and then one day they'll say "This is the only way". And once it's reality they'll all race to get in line and proclaim they had a hand in bringing a downtown casino to Indy to further its status as an up and coming city.

    That is unless the NCAA balks at a downtown casino and there's not enough money to make them change their mind....

    You can't build sporting palaces and give away the spoils to someone else without finding a way to fund the expenses. And eventually, the well runs dry on putting your hands back in taxpayer pockets. The taxes become too repressive for the businesses to survive and more than taxpayers are willing to bear.

    Step right up to the one-armed bandit... Completely voluntary.

    Sure there are reasons to be opposed although I absolutely think arguing they increase crime is just a waste of time. I think a better argument is what harm it would do to existing Indiana casinos.

    Sometime soon the tipping point will be reached.... Losing either team, or even risking won't be an option. Not in the current climate.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    You know, Georgia passed their Lottery based on a scholarship for any in-state student who had a B average or better getting free tuition and some book money (not room or board) for a state school.

    I didn't buy a single lottery ticket, but I put one daughter through 4 years of school plus a son and another daughter through a year each for free.

    By my calculations, that adds up to about $26,000 I "won" in the Georgia Lottery.

    So go for it, Indiana. Do the same. W00t!
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    I doubt (but seriously support) a downtown casino. It would absolutely kill Anderson, West Baden and that one that opened last weekend in Shelbyville.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I doubt (but seriously support) a downtown casino. It would absolutely kill Anderson, West Baden and that one that opened last weekend in Shelbyville.
    Dunno that it would kill West Baden, which has historical context, architectural uniqueness, and other positive features to add to being a casino.

    Heck, I don't gamble but I'm really hoping to score a weekend getaway there at some point.
    BillS

    "Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    Dunno that it would kill West Baden, which has historical context, architectural uniqueness, and other positive features to add to being a casino.

    Heck, I don't gamble but I'm really hoping to score a weekend getaway there at some point.
    It's reaaaallllly nice.

    Let us know if/when you ever go down there. We'll show you around.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    The downtown casino idea seems to have been around for years and but has obviously yet to come to fruition. I'd love to see it happen, I just question if it ever will, since it hasn't already.

    I'll gladly go to a casino, play blackjack and drink on the house without the worry of any kind of alcohol tax increase.

    Duke Dynamite...clearly you aren't a smoker if you want tobacco taxes to go up any more. Good lord, they are ridiculous right now as it is. It costs you an arm and a leg just to kill yourself now a days.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    The downtown casino idea seems to have been around for years and but has obviously yet to come to fruition. I'd love to see it happen, I just question if it ever will, since it hasn't already.

    I'll gladly go to a casino, play blackjack and drink on the house without the worry of any kind of alcohol tax increase.

    Duke Dynamite...clearly you aren't a smoker if you want tobacco taxes to go up any more. Good lord, they are ridiculous right now as it is. It costs you an arm and a leg just to kill yourself now a days.
    Anything to keep my streets and sidewalks clean and butt-free. I'm tired of it!

    I'd rather not get into the many reasons why I hate smoking (the reasons are obvious), but I agree with the idea for a casino downtown. (I do not gamble, either.)

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    Duke Dynamite...clearly you aren't a smoker if you want tobacco taxes to go up any more. Good lord, they are ridiculous right now as it is. It costs you an arm and a leg just to kill yourself now a days.
    I suppose I could support getting money somewhere else if it makes it cheaper for you to kill yourself...
    BillS

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    - Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I suppose I could support getting money somewhere else if it makes it cheaper for you to kill yourself...

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    The downtown casino idea seems to have been around for years and but has obviously yet to come to fruition. I'd love to see it happen, I just question if it ever will, since it hasn't already.

    I'll gladly go to a casino, play blackjack and drink on the house without the worry of any kind of alcohol tax increase.

    Duke Dynamite...clearly you aren't a smoker if you want tobacco taxes to go up any more. Good lord, they are ridiculous right now as it is. It costs you an arm and a leg just to kill yourself now a days.
    If you think cigarettes are expensive here, go to New Jersey, Washington, or New York. Hell, don't even consider buying cigarettes in New York City:
    http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...cal&id=6057631
    http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/cigarett.html
    Last edited by Wu-Gambino; 04-02-2009 at 08:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I doubt (but seriously support) a downtown casino. It would absolutely kill Anderson, West Baden and that one that opened last weekend in Shelbyville.
    It wouldn't kill Anderson either, because of the horse races. They did quite well before the casino went in and will continue to do so because they offer something no one else does.

    EDIT: Unless it's winter.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    I doubt you'll ever see a downtown casino. Both Hoosier Park and Indiana Live had to pay a huge amount to land the licenses from the Indiana Gaming Commission and are already talking about reducing those figures.

    And yes, contrary to what people say, Hoosier Park and Indiana Live and even West Baden and some of the other casinos throughout Indiana would lobby heavily against a downtown Indy casino.

    The CIB will likely be bailed out by the legislature with earmarks for the Pacers as well as other projects throughout Indiana.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothdave1 View Post
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    I doubt you'll ever see a downtown casino. Both Hoosier Park and Indiana Live had to pay a huge amount to land the licenses from the Indiana Gaming Commission and are already talking about reducing those figures.

    And yes, contrary to what people say, Hoosier Park and Indiana Live and even West Baden and some of the other casinos throughout Indiana would lobby heavily against a downtown Indy casino.

    The CIB will likely be bailed out by the legislature with earmarks for the Pacers as well as other projects throughout Indiana.
    I agree 100%. Just look at Atlantic City. After I believe it was 1976 when they passed the law that allowed Casio's, The inner city thrived but the outskirts of the city became a slum. You are probably thinking, well Indianapolis is like this now. Well it would only get worse. Leave the gambling at the horse tracks. keep our city clean and free of the trash that would roll in if we built a casino downtown. . Just my
    Last edited by stevo; 03-27-2009 at 04:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Quote Originally Posted by Smoothdave1 View Post
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    I doubt you'll ever see a downtown casino. Both Hoosier Park and Indiana Live had to pay a huge amount to land the licenses from the Indiana Gaming Commission and are already talking about reducing those figures.

    And yes, contrary to what people say, Hoosier Park and Indiana Live and even West Baden and some of the other casinos throughout Indiana would lobby heavily against a downtown Indy casino.

    The CIB will likely be bailed out by the legislature with earmarks for the Pacers as well as other projects throughout Indiana.
    The problem is: When do you hit the point of diminishing returns? If you tax too much you end up hurting the numbers at the businesses that you counted on for tax dollars. If you somehow hit the people directly you eventually take away the money that they would be able to put towards luxuries such as going to Pacer games, spending on concessions, etc.. Plus they quit visiting the establishments that are already taxed to pay for the stadiums. So now you have downtown businesses seeing diminished profits and your revenue stream is hurt even more. Taxing is not a bottomless pit that can continue to be mined.

    If we're not already there, we're getting close.

    At least the casino is 100% voluntary.

    I do think the other casinos would be hurt. People who just want to have a little fun gambling are going to go to the nearest casino. Every new casino has to take away from the potential market each casino is drawing from.

    French Lick has some huge impediments, not the least of which is the limited access route(s) there. It's not like they are a couple of miles off the interstate. The 'get-away' attraction is limited at best. For most people that is a once a year, if that, reason to head to French Lick.

    Don't fool yourself into thinking French Lick is now hugely successful.

    I'm sure the other casinos will balk at a DT casino. The compromises likely are "we don't build the DT casino but we tax you other casinos more for your exclusivity" or "We build the DT casino but we'll cut taxes or give you a piece of the pie of the downtown casino (in whatever way that could be made to work).

    My prediction still stands that the DT casino is coming. The wheels are in motion. It might be a few years down the road.... but it's coming. I'm sure they've known it all along that it's a question of "when" not "if". I'm sure the plans are much more detailed than the public knows or most would even suspect.

    I think it's just a shame they don't cut to the chase and get it over with rather than dragging it out for years waiting for the 'right' time, enacting some interim taxes that will be hard to get rid of, and continue these public financing arguments that will continue to get more contentious as the gravy train comes to an end.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    BTW... I'm not exactly 'for' the casino even though my post read that way. I just think it's a foregone conclusion that it's coming. As long as billionaire team owners aren't required to pay their own way and have the ability to (all but) require taxpayers to support their endeavors PLUS expect support at the ticket window too, financing will naturally funnel that way. There is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to taxing people and businesses and we're fast reaching it if not already well in the middle of it.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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    Default Re: Star: Legislature looks at raising alcohol taxes to bail out CIB

    Indystar.com
    By: Mary Beth Schneider and Brendan O''Shaughnessy
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2009...383/-1/ARCHIVE


    March 27, 2009

    Lawmakers: CIB fix will be 'shared pain'

    Higher taxes, cash from Colts are options to overcome $20M shortfall

    By Mary Beth Schneider and Brendan O'Shaughnessy
    mary.beth.schneider@indystar.com

    Solving the financial woes afflicting the Capital Improvement Board will be the responsibility of Marion County taxpayers, fans, visitors and Indianapolis' two largest sports teams.

    That was the sentiment most clearly heard Thursday at the Statehouse, where lawmakers have been engaged in intense behind-closed-doors negotiations to find a way to bail out the agency that runs sports stadiums in Indianapolis.

    Few specifics were available, but legislative leaders said many options were being discussed -- including requiring the Indianapolis Colts to pony up money, raising alcohol or hotel and restaurant taxes, and expanding special tax districts that already capture sales and income taxes for special purposes such as the arenas. Even raising parking meter fees has been floated.

    Most likely, they said, is finding a way to tap a revenue stream that takes dollars from those who actually benefit from the facilities -- and doesn't tax people across the state to help out Marion County.

    "Obviously, we're stuck trying to find an answer here. We're going to have to pass some legislation," said Senate President Pro Tempore David Long, R-Fort Wayne.

    "My goal, and I think a lot of people's goal, is to try to make this pretty much a Marion County solution for the CIB. Whether that's possible or not remains to be seen."

    The CIB is facing a $20 million shortfall this year, and that could grow next year if the Indiana Pacers, who are losing money, can't pay the team's $15 million share of the costs of Conseco Fieldhouse.

    The lobbying at the Statehouse began weeks ago. On Wednesday, Herb Simon, co-owner of the Pacers, met with Gov. Mitch Daniels, though details of what they discussed were not available.

    Sen. Luke Kenley, the Noblesville Republican who is working with Rep. Bill Crawford, D-Indianapolis, on the issue, said lawmakers would meet again next week with "all of the appropriate parties."

    "It's probably going to be behind closed doors to get a feel about where we could go," he said.

    A contribution from the Colts was at the top of the list for many lawmakers.

    House Speaker B. Patrick Bauer, D-South Bend, said legislators wonder "why there is no contribution from the Colts to equal what the Pacers contribute."

    The Colts negotiated what many now regard as a sweetheart deal for Lucas Oil Stadium, pocketing an estimated $41 million annually in new revenue above the $150 million a year the club had made at its old stadium, the RCA Dome.

    Kenley said he's had a couple of meetings with Colts attorney Dan Emerson about the issue.

    "Everybody wants to solve the problem. Nobody is very happy about giving up any revenues or finding revenues on their own part. It's going to be a shared pain," he said.

    Colts owner Jim Irsay was unavailable for comment. Greg Schenkel, vice president of sports and entertainment for the Pacers, said the team is "not engaged in any active discussions (with lawmakers). We've been asked questions about our situation. This is not about the Pacers. It's about the CIB."

    Lawmakers expressed frustration Thursday that Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard has not laid out a proposal for what is essentially a city problem.

    Senate Minority Leader Vi Simpson, D-Ellettsville, said Ballard needs to "take a position on a solution before it's put out there for a vote."

    Ballard declined an interview, instead issuing a statement that said: "We have been open and forthcoming with the legislature about the severity of our situation, and I appreciate the effort the legislators are making to help find a solution. I look forward to a continued and constructive dialogue with all stakeholders."

    A month ago, Ballard said he would prefer a ticket or admissions tax that collects from the stadiums' users rather than a general tax such as food and beverage.

    But he has said little publicly over the past few weeks about the ongoing negotiations with the legislature.

    Additional Facts
    What are the odds?
    Food and beverage taxes: Bumping up Marion County's 2 percent food and beverage tax by 1 percentage point would bring in $18 million a year. This is one of the best options because it raises the most money. But opposition from taxpayer groups would be high. Odds: Still alive.

    Hotel taxes: An increase of 1 percent in Marion County's 9 percent hotel/motel tax would drum up $4 million a year. The hotel industry is opposed to any increase, saying it would make it more difficult for Indianapolis to compete against other cities for convention business. Odds: On the table.

    Raising admission taxes: Increasing Marion County's 6 percent admissions tax by 1 percentage point would bring in $1.5 million a year. Mayor Greg Ballard likes this idea, though the Indiana Pacers are especially loath to do this because it would make it harder for the team, already struggling with thin turnout, to draw crowds. Odds: Possible.

    Concessions from the teams: The Indianapolis Colts now get a share of revenues generated during non-Colts events at Lucas Oil Stadium. Giving that up would mean $3.5 million for the Capital Improvement Board a year. The Pacers hope the CIB will assume $15 million a year in operating costs at Conseco Fieldhouse. As a compromise, the CIB might assume a portion of that amount. Odds: Uncertain.

    Expanding taxing districts: Adding new hotels and other stadium-related businesses to a sales tax increment financing district in Downtown would generate $10 million a year. Odds: Possible.

    Alcohol tax: Indiana's spirits, wine and beer taxes are on the low end, but lawmakers are more interested in solutions that affect Marion County alone, not the whole state. The taxes raise about $42 million a year, which is split between the state and local governments. Odds: Unlikely.


    Alcohol taxes
    Note: All amounts are per gallon.

    In Indiana
    » Spirits: $2.68.
    » Table wine: 47 cents.
    » Beer: 11.5 cents.

    In neighboring states
    » Illinois: $4.50 for spirits, 73 cents for wine, 18.5 cents for beer.
    » Kentucky: $1.94 for spirits, 50 cents for wine, 10 cents for beer. (There's an extra 11 percent wholesale tax on alcohol.)
    » Ohio: $8.73 for spirits, 32 cents for wine, 18 cents for beer. (State controls alcohol sales.)

    Source: The Tax Foundation, data as of January
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    Default RTV 6 | Panel Passes CIB Bailout ; Colts Refuse (Post 33)

    WTHR.com
    By: Mary Milz
    http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp...&nav=menu188_2


    Lawmakers Propose $45M Plan to Fund CIB, Pacers
    Mary Milz/Eyewitness News

    Indianapolis - State lawmakers have come up with a $45 million plan to keep the Pacers in Indianapolis and help the city's Capital Improvement Board solve its budget shortfall.

    Sen. Luke Kenley, R - Noblesville said the plan calls for "contributions from all parties." He said that includes the Pacers, the Colts and their fans through a "ticket tax so people who game to the games can pay their share."

    Kenley said the under the plan, the CIB will be asked to make further budget cuts (in addition to the $7.4 million already announced) and the city will be given the authority to raise hospitality taxes. He said raising the state alcohol tax is another possibility.

    "It's being looked at along with lots of other things," he said. "There are no easy ways to do this, so who knows what the mix will be."

    John Livengood, who heads the Indiana Restaurant Association said raising restaurant and hotel taxes would be "a terrible mistake" because Indianapolis "would have the highest hospitality taxes in the country and that's a bad way to lure people."

    Livengood also criticized any attempt to raise alcohol taxes. He said 'historically it's been unpopular and secondly it doesn't raise a lot of money."

    According to the Indiana Department of Revenue, state alcohol taxes were last increased in 1981. Last year, alcohol taxes generated nearly $44 million. The state shares part of the revenue with cities and towns.

    Kenley stressed the legislation wasn't just about helping Indianapolis. New monies would also be provided for other parts of the state.

    "We think the bill is a vehicle to help other communities do things," he said. "For instance, there's language in there for Fort Wayne to help with their convention center up."

    Another part of the plan involves expanding the Professional Sports Development District. The district includes Lucas Oil Stadium, Conseco Fieldhouse, Victory Field and the convention center, with the income and sales taxes generated at those facilities helping to pay for them.

    Kenley said he's briefed all the key players on the funding plan, including the Pacers, who expect to lose $30 million this year. The Pacers have asked the CIB to pick up the tab for running Conseco Fieldhouse, about $15 million a year.

    Asked about the feedback he's received from the teams, Kenley said, "I think they're glad we're working on a solution but they may not be glad about the way we're laying it out."

    Kenley will unveil further details about the plan during a committee hearing Thursday morning.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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    Default Re: WTHR | Lawmakers propose $45M plan to fund CIB, Pacers

    Something I also found interesting...

    Howey Politics Indiana
    By: Brian A Howey
    http://www.howeypolitics.com/2009/04...or-every-city/

    CIB Bailout: Something for every city
    INDIANAPOLIS - The next two Thursdays will go a long way toward shaping the final outcome of the Indiana General Assembly when it comes to the Capital Improvement Board bailout, the biennial budget, and perhaps even local government reform.
    Senate Appropriations Chairman Luke Kenley has scheduled a briefing on a CIB solution at 5 p.m. today.
    This Thursday, the Senate Appropriations Committe will hear HB1604, originally a hodgepodge of Allen and Vanderburgh county wants. Informed and reliable Senate sources tell HPI that it will be the vehicle for a CIB bailout that will not only benefit Indianapolis, “but every community in the state.” It is being driven by Senate President David Long and Sen. Kenley. The source said that everyone - the Pacers, Colts, CIB, Indianapolis - “all have to have skin in the game.” The source said that dealing with the Pacers has been much more “cordial” than dealing with the Colts.

    ***Please login to view the entire article.***

    I don't subscribe to this news letter, so I couldn't open the whole article
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

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