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Thread: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

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    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    We are now five games behind Chicago with nine to play. Virtually no shot at the playoffs.

    Now I will root for the Pacers to win but won't care if they lose. Because that could possibly mean a better draft pick.

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    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    FREE MCROBERTS! Its officially officially time.

    Oh yeah, and... Jerryd who? We already knew about Rush's defense, but its nice to know he can put up 18 points in a quarter on occasion.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 03-28-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    I've not cared about the playoffs for several weeks now. It has nothing to do with being down on the team, it's just (IMHO) being realistic. We lost too much in the first half of the season without making corrections for things to have changed much the 2nd half of the season (without being too little, too late).

    I have no desire to see a team back into the playoffs and be and easy out. I do not believe that 'experience' is worth a hill of beans. I also don't think making the playoffs with a team that has little resemblance to the team you ultimately want to go to war with has much significance either.

    But I do think the team made strides this year and is free of some serious shackles. They'll make the playoffs soon enough if the front office remains committed to putting a quality team on the court.

    The playoffs have been a pipe dream for quite some time for many. This isn't the NCAA where anything can happen in the playoffs because this isn't a one and done tourney.

    Jordan once told Dan Dakich he couldn't stop him again... Dakich didn't have to stop him again. He just needed to do it once. But that is college... this is the NBA.

    Even though I'm sure there's some sadness that the team likely won't make the playoffs, I think there should be some celebrating on how far this team has come in a relatively short time. We finally have some hope for a future.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Bball, I think there is some mixed truth to what you say. You say you don't want to "[make] the playoffs with a team that has little resemblance to the team you ultimately want to go to war with" but then that we should be celebrating with how far this team has come. So I am not sure how much there is to celebrate - we've gotten rid of one big reef around our neck, JO, yet we still have some baggage. And it is, like you say, unclear what our squad will be next year - we might really only have 3 starter positions and still a very unsure bench.

    I don't know. I don't feel like the team is as good as it was in 89 or 1990 or 1991. Its still like we're in the mid 80's I guess, to make the historic comparison. And even in the mid 80's, we had a young GM who was just beginning to build his empire. I am not sure what Larry Bird is going to do and how responsible he is for the mess that is here. TBD I guess.
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaufman View Post
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    Bball, I think there is some mixed truth to what you say. You say you don't want to "[make] the playoffs with a team that has little resemblance to the team you ultimately want to go to war with" but then that we should be celebrating with how far this team has come. .
    The point is we know there are still changes to come. We're in transition and far from a finished project.

    Importantly, I think we have some real team leadership now.

    I doubt this coach or system will be in play when we finally are a serious playoff threat... but this is also the final year of his contract IIRC (Heaven help us if he gets an extension though).

    We're going to have to settle the Tinsley issue sooner rather than later (IMO) and that will be a little more uncertainty removed from the franchise.

    We're going to get a decent draft pick (albeit in a questionable draft year).

    I have much more confidence in Morway and Bird than I ever did with Walsh in the picture. Walsh couldn't react quickly to anything and he was the top dog. Of course all bets are off if we were to lose Morway.

    But there are some negative things floating around too. Look no further than the claims that the Pacers lost money even in their Finals year.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I think there should be some celebrating on how far this team has come in a relatively short time. We finally have some hope for a future.
    Based primarily on what happened via a few telephone calls last summer, not what happend on 94 feet of hardwood basketball court this season.

    Of course, just think how much better next season would be looking if Rush and Hibbert had more time to work through some of the important consistency/ growing pains during January and February. The record and result would be about the same for this season (who really cares whether you have 28 wins or 33 wins???). Regardless, I think our Jack/ Rush/ Granger/ TBD/ Hibbert core is definitely a step in the right direction.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Call me Kauffie Kaufman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    YOu know its interesting you bring up this coaching issue - I've not been on PD a ton so I don't know what discussion has been on a potential replacement --- I certainly don't care much for the system right now nor the coach and his lack of coaching. But the thing is - I see O'Brien as a guy in similar situation to what Bo Hill was - a transition type of guy. We don't need Larry Brown because we don't have a squad worthy of having him as a coach at this point.

    Thoughts on a potential coach? Maybe a young guy to bring up a young team - like an assistant or NCAA young coach type?
    "Sometimes, when you look Andy in the eyes, you get a feeling somebody else is driving." -- David Letterman

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    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Based primarily on what happened via a few telephone calls last summer, not what happend on 94 feet of hardwood basketball court this season.

    Of course, just think how much better next season would be looking if Rush and Hibbert had more time to work through some of the important consistency/ growing pains during January and February. The record and result would be about the same for this season (who really cares whether you have 28 wins or 33 wins???). Regardless, I think our Jack/ Rush/ Granger/ TBD/ Hibbert core is definitely a step in the right direction.

    No disagreement on that here (other than I think some chemistry developed on the court and a better leadership example can be touted which are positives for the future).
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  9. #9
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    if Rush and Hibbert had more time to work through some of the important consistency/ growing pains during January and February. The record and result would be about the same
    Disagree. I think it would be better.

    Regardless, I'm glad to see Rush get the start... he's earned it. Now we just need to see McBob get some minutes to see if he's going to be a legit player or not.
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaufman View Post
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    YOu know its interesting you bring up this coaching issue - I've not been on PD a ton so I don't know what discussion has been on a potential replacement --- I certainly don't care much for the system right now nor the coach and his lack of coaching. But the thing is - I see O'Brien as a guy in similar situation to what Bo Hill was - a transition type of guy. We don't need Larry Brown because we don't have a squad worthy of having him as a coach at this point.

    Thoughts on a potential coach? Maybe a young guy to bring up a young team - like an assistant or NCAA young coach type?

    Good to see you posting Kaufman.
    As far as a coach I have no clue who would replace Obrien. This team needs a mentality change and I don't know if this coach can do that. By that I mean focus on defense.
    If he had a better defensive team would Obrien push defense/
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Based primarily on what happened via a few telephone calls last summer, not what happend on 94 feet of hardwood basketball court this season.

    Of course, just think how much better next season would be looking if Rush and Hibbert had more time to work through some of the important consistency/ growing pains during January and February. The record and result would be about the same for this season (who really cares whether you have 28 wins or 33 wins???). Regardless, I think our Jack/ Rush/ Granger/ TBD/ Hibbert core is definitely a step in the right direction.
    I am not convinced that Jack is our best long term option at PG. Light years better than Ford, yes, but I see Jack more as a really steady backup. We need a PG who is a distributor first, I have no idea how we will find that, but for this team to ever peak and be a real contender, I think we really need it.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    I'm not convinced JOB is soft on defense.

    I just think he is a bad tactician. In tonight's game, in two key offensive plays down the stretch . . . we didn't run one. On one, Jack finally shot one from the perimeter after we just passed it around the perimeter. On another play we did the same thing again until Granger chucked one.

    Roy should have played in the fourth.

    Rush should have gotten in earlier in the fourth. Benched for Graham? During the best game of his career?

    JOB needs to have someone else calling the shots (like Bird had Carlisle) or the Ps need a new coach.
    .

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    .

    .


    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    LOL watching TJ Ford is painful. Does he honestly wonder why he comes off the bench? His decision-making is just awful. Seriously, someone tell him it's okay to dish it occasionally and not just drive into the other team's big men every time.

    I'll excuse Roy and Rush for their mistakes, given that they're rookies and they only make as many as some of these supposed "vets."

    Still, there are still things to play for, like development and to see who should stay with the team next year. Would be nice to see Rush continue to excel over these past few games, Roy stay in games without fouling out and McBob get some playing time. Gotta say real quick I was very impressed with Granger. I said the coaches should have just shut him down to make sure he was good for next year, but obviously he still has game even coming off the injury.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    I have no idea how we will find that, but for this team to ever peak and be a real contender, I think we really need it.
    You find that in the draft. You can't trade for one of them (costs too much) and you can't find one as a FA (as their current team never lets them test the market.)

    Its the same as finding a franchise QB.

    Until then, Jack is adequate to get the team to a potential deep playoff run, a la Haywoode Workman. Won't win a championship with him starting, but won't "suck" either.

    It doesn't necessarily take a top-ten pick to find the PG, either. Teams chase scoring and talent, or as Hubie Brown says, "upside" on draft day- its how a tweener/ scorer like Bayless ends up getting drafted too early. I'll take a solid pass-first PG with good size and court vision in the 10-20 range of the draft. We have our 'star' with Danny, so we need complimentary players anyway.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    We finally have some hope for a future.

    Yep, O'Brien has only 1 more year left on his contract! Only 1 more year of "run n gun with little D Jimmy" left.

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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    You find that in the draft. You can't trade for one of them (costs too much) and you can't find one as a FA (as their current team never lets them test the market.)

    Its the same as finding a franchise QB.

    Until then, Jack is adequate to get the team to a potential deep playoff run, a la Haywoode Workman. Won't win a championship with him starting, but won't "suck" either.

    It doesn't necessarily take a top-ten pick to find the PG, either. Teams chase scoring and talent, or as Hubie Brown says, "upside" on draft day- its how a tweener/ scorer like Bayless ends up getting drafted too early. I'll take a solid pass-first PG with good size and court vision in the 10-20 range of the draft. We have our 'star' with Danny, so we need complimentary players anyway.
    I agree completely with everything you're saying, but do you think that player is in this draft?

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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    need to see McBob get some minutes to see if he's going to be a legit player or not.

    Louis Amundson, nothing more.

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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Yep, O'Brien has only 1 more year left on his contract! Only 1 more year of "run n gun with little D Jimmy" left.
    i'm counting on it too. i hope we don't resign him.

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    I agree completely with everything you're saying, but do you think that player is in this draft?
    No, I assume it is still a year away. We need to draft the best available PF to compliment a core of Rush/ Granger/ Hibbert this year.

    I like the way Bird drafted and traded for "fit" last summer - trading down to get the SG he wanted and trading in to get the C he wanted.

    And remember, I'm the anti-Bird.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


  20. #20
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Yep, O'Brien has only 1 more year left on his contract! Only 1 more year of "run n gun with little D Jimmy" left.
    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    i'm counting on it too. i hope we don't resign him.
    Jim O'Brien's contract is 3 years guaranteed, but the Pacers have an option to pick him up for a fourth year.



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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    I wonder what all you guys are going to do when we can't find a coach that is better than O'Brien after his contract is up.

    I guess I'll have to buy you guys new photos to put up on your dart boards. Maybe a Vinny Del Negro voodoo doll or something.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 03-30-2009 at 04:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    I wonder what all you guys are going to do when we can't find a coach that is better than O'Brien after his contract is up.

    I guess I'll have to buy you guys new photos to put up on your dart boards. Maybe a Vinny Del Negro voodoo doll or something.
    At some point, JVG is gonna get bored of doing ESPN commentary.......hopefully he'll be available
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Jim O'Brien's contract is 3 years guaranteed, but the Pacers have an option to pick him up for a fourth year.

    If Pacers have another season like O'Brien's 1st 2 years and Bird picks up O'Brien's option, I will be the one standing in front of Conseco in my bibbs with a pitchfork, tar, feathers, and a rail waiting on Bird!

  24. #24
    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Post Game-Bulls deliver coup de grâce

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    At some point, JVG is gonna get bored of doing ESPN commentary.......hopefully he'll be available


    Heck, I'd even take my other co-favorite-coach-of-all-time. I'm sure that, given a little bit of time, Bill Cowher could put together a pretty good defensive scheme for the Pacers.
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you


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