Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Excellent article on Mike Brown's coaching

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 1
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous template Next
  • #1

    Excellent article on Mike Brown's coaching

    Thought this was really good. Heard Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson discussing this on TV yesterday. Yes Vecsey wrote the article, but after the first few paragraphs it gets very interesting. Very similar to what Larry Bird did as Pacers coach. I think players need to hear a different voice from time to time - otherwise the head coach will have a very short shelf life. Just think of all the timeouts in every game, pre-game, halftime, post-game, film sessions. I can understand why players tune coaches out


    http://www.nypost.com/php/pfriendly/...ght_160706.htm


    CAVA-LEADERS ARE GETTING IT ALL RIGHT
    By PETER VECSEY


    March 22, 2009 --

    CLEVELAND Normally, a hiring of a coach ahead of a general manager is an NBA recipe for restiveness, if not all-out revolution.

    Burrowing below the surface of Mike Brown's selection as supervisor of the Cavaliers' sidelines ahead of Danny Ferry taking charge of the front office, is to appreciate the irrelevance of that appointment schedule.

    "People don't understand we have history," Brown stressed last Tuesday as we sat in his Quicken Loans Arena office following a team shootaround. In the summer of 1997, Brown was a 26-year-old Wizards assistant under Bernie Bickerstaff. His primary duty during that offseason was to run daily workouts at Bowie State, the team's practice facility. In-town veterans and rookies were encouraged to break a sweat, as were any NBA players living in the area; the heavier the attendance, the more spirited the training session.

    Ferry, whose 10-year Cavaliers career had three more to go at that time, lived in Annapolis. Five days a week, he would participate in whatever drills Brown was pushing. Nevertheless, by the end of August-early September, as the gym got hotter and hotter, only two hard bodies (well, one, anyway) hung tough. Brown's boot camp was down to Ben Wallace and Ferry.

    "I kicked Ben's [butt] every day," Ferry fabricated.

    "None of us needed each other," Brown underlined. "We were just three guys busting our [butts] to get better at what we do. A mutual respect was developed."

    Three seasons later, Brown was a Spurs assistant when he was told by commandant Gregg Popovich he was about to have a surprise guest. Newly signed free agent Danny Ferry entered the gym moments later.

    By the end of their three-year tour together, heightened by one championship parade, "Danny knew me for who I am and I knew him for who he is."

    Or as Ferry advocates, "Our relationship is one of the most beneficial features of our team. We share the same values. Our love of the game and respect for each other allows us to bring up touchy subjects and say hard [constructive] things. You've got to have a thick skin for that. But we're in this together. I tell Mike, 'I'm under the same pressure to succeed as you.' "

    Ferry and Brown communicate every day and always after games.

    Suggestions are often made. "I want to be told stuff. I want to learn as much as possible," Brown says. "I welcome Danny's advice and definitely take all of it into consideration . . . as long as the final decision is mine."

    At the end of the 2006-'07 season, Ferry suggested Brown expand his knowledge of European ball and its players by going overseas to spend a couple weeks with a particular coach/team.

    "I told him I'd think about it, but I really didn't want to get pressed in that direction. I felt I could grow enough by staying home and reading basketball books and watching film."

    Then again, decided Brown, "How can I tell players, if they want to get better they've got to get into the gym and work on their weaknesses if I resist doing it?"

    So, two Julys ago in Las Vegas, the Cavs recruited Etore Messina, a distinguished Italian coach, to partake in all team functions. Late that summer, Brown flew to the mountain village of Brunico and fully interacted with Messina's Moscow club. The reciprocal process was repeated last summer.

    "Doing this was one of the best ideas that wasn't mine," Brown chuckles in all seriousness.

    Emboldened, Ferry submitted another out-of-the-box suggestion. Despite LeBron James' multi-dimensional, supernatural arsenal, the Cavs' identity is on the other side of the ball . . . because that's Brown's focus/forte and where he's generally coming from. So, the idea was hatched to assign an assistant to assume responsibility of the offense.

    Brown's initial sensitive reaction was, "What, you don't think I can do it?"

    "Yes, Mike could do it," Ferry says. But stepping back allowed him to become more of a leader. It allowed him to establish quality control by being better able to see the bigger picture. But I never envisioned how far he'd take things."

    At the Cavs' October opening-of-camp dinner, Brown's foremost focal point was relying and believing in one another. The HOV lane to the Holy Grail was dependent on teammates trusting teammates, players trusting coaches, and coaches trusting coaches, he sermonized.

    One of biggest steps Brown took as a coach, he says, was being given free reign of the Pacers' defense by Rick Carlisle. "It prepared me to take the next step as Cavalier coach. But I found out you can take the defense from team to team same scheme, same system and make it better, but you can't take offense from team to team.

    "I never ran an offense before coming here. I knew we had that guy you're talking about and we could drive-and- kick, or pick-and- roll, and when things broke down, if we defended, we still had a chance to win. But our team didn't have an offensive per sonality."

    John Kuester's singular obligation has been to put one in place. Larry Brown's long- time dis ciple at Philadelphia and Detroit was relieved of his other details though he still has the freedom to contribute in any way at any time and given the run of the playbook.

    Additionally, and this is what makes this situation so exclusive, Kuester addresses the team in huddles and draws play after momentarily conferring with Brown. Picture that happening anywhere else, in any league, at any level.

    Furthermore, when the need arises during games to dwell on defense, Michael Malone is the coordinator.

    "Right from the start, Mike would urge his assistants to speak out, even stop practices, when we had something to say," says Malone who left the Knicks' staff to enlist with Brown. "Many coaches want to be the only one heard. The amazing thing is, it's Mike's first head job. You'd think he'd want to show everybody he can do everything."

    Imagine that, a head coach who's not insecure or paranoid. Evidently, there must be something wrong with Brown.

    So, what's Brown doing while Kuester and Malone are attending to their specialties? He remains on the outskirts overseeing operations and exchanging ideas with Chris Jent (LeBron's shot surgeon) and Melvin Hunt.

    "Turning over the team to my assistants shows the players I trust them," Brown explains. "It shows I'm not worried about them taking my job, that I don't have all the answers, but that I have a lot of people around who have good things to say. If I show the players I trust my assistants, they're more likely to trust us.

    "Meanwhile, I've got an extra 30 to 40 seconds to think about what we should be doing overall. If we're not playing well or the right way, I'll sit down and voice my unhappiness."

    And when Brown does spew, his words resonate louder because he's not talking all the time. In his fourth season, he's well aware players become anesthetized by a coach's recorded messages.

    All-Star guard Mo Williams says the players definitely are down with the unique concept. "It's great because it's the same voice in the huddle that we hear in practice. Plus, it's successful. You don't change what's successful."

    Much of which, needless to say (but I insist), can be directly or indirectly traced to the Cavs' No. 1 Stunner. Following a week's worth of investigation, it appears Ferry and Brown also have something to do with the team leading the league with 13 games to go.

    Was it beginner's luck, or did the Cavs' 47-year-old owner actually have a strategy in cherry- picking two student teachers to boss their respective territory?

    Dan Gilbert's business mindset is anti-corporate, I'm informed. The reason he wanted Ferry and Brown is because they hadn't failed. Says Ferry, "He wanted us before we went into our prime."

    peter.vecsey@nypost.com

    Next: The Cavs' No. 2 Stunner
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-23-2009, 08:34 AM.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Excellent article on Mike Brown's coaching

    Good article.

    Man, Mike Brown is a good coach. We know how to grow 'em here.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Excellent article on Mike Brown's coaching

      This same method worked great for Rick with Brown as his voice to the players. It really hurt the team to lose Brown. Along those lines it looks like Rick is going to perhaps end up with Armstrong in a similar role for him in Dallas.

      This is exactly why Bird's BS comment about "3 years and they tune you out" is bunk (he just wanted an excuse to leave coaching and move to FLA). Pop, Sloan, Phil...somehow guys don't tune them out. Magic I guess.

      It's how you approach people that keeps them from tuning out. If you don't grow with them and develop a dynamic relationship then sure they are going to tune you out - it's the same boring story. However if you adjust the message from player to player as they mature and change then they'll keep listening. And having 2-3 other voices for them to turn to in times of frustration helps vent off the building anger and keeps them in the fold long term.

      Or you can pull a Larry Brown and just beat them down endlessly until one day they figure out you are just a jerk and get sick of it. There are plenty of coaches that will admit that they actually think it helps to demoralize players.

      Someone was just talking about Nellie having that attitude in fact. Stupid power games. Unfortunately it works just enough for these guys to keep trying it.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Excellent article on Mike Brown's coaching

        Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
        This same method worked great for Rick with Brown as his voice to the players. It really hurt the team to lose Brown. Along those lines it looks like Rick is going to perhaps end up with Armstrong in a similar role for him in Dallas.

        This is exactly why Bird's BS comment about "3 years and they tune you out" is bunk (he just wanted an excuse to leave coaching and move to FLA). Pop, Sloan, Phil...somehow guys don't tune them out. Magic I guess.

        It's how you approach people that keeps them from tuning out. If you don't grow with them and develop a dynamic relationship then sure they are going to tune you out - it's the same boring story. However if you adjust the message from player to player as they mature and change then they'll keep listening. And having 2-3 other voices for them to turn to in times of frustration helps vent off the building anger and keeps them in the fold long term.

        Or you can pull a Larry Brown and just beat them down endlessly until one day they figure out you are just a jerk and get sick of it. There are plenty of coaches that will admit that they actually think it helps to demoralize players.

        Someone was just talking about Nellie having that attitude in fact. Stupid power games. Unfortunately it works just enough for these guys to keep trying it.
        Interesting comments.

        I completely disagree with you about Larry Brown. He is not playing games of any sort. That is just the way he is. He treats everyone the same and if the best player accepts it and thrives under his coaching the rest of the players will fall in line and you have a great situation. Larry Brown is honest to a fault, but he has no allterior motive - he is what he is. A lot of his players hate him especially when he is yelling at them, but most of the players respect him and appreciate him after he is no longer the coach. Larry Brown does not play power games at all.


        Carlisle has three great assistants in Dallas. Stotts, Mario Ellie (who has been close to getting a couple of head coaching jobs) and Dwayne Casey - that is a great staff - I give him credit for that. I also give Vinny Del Negro credit for his great staff in Chicago, Del Harris, Bernie Bickerstaff, and Bobby Ociepka, Pete Myers.

        Vinny probably needed very experienced people around him, but Rick didn't, and yet he brought them in - he brought in 3 coaches who could take his job.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Excellent article on Mike Brown's coaching

          Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
          This is exactly why Bird's BS comment about "3 years and they tune you out" is bunk (he just wanted an excuse to leave coaching and move to FLA). Pop, Sloan, Phil...somehow guys don't tune them out. Magic I guess.
          Yeah, but Sloan is only in his third year right?
          The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

          Comment

          Previous template Next
          Working...
          X