Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 35

Thread: Stephen Graham

  1. #1
    Member pianoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Muncie Indiana
    Age
    24
    Posts
    1,349
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Stephen Graham

    Is it just me, or does JOB use Graham more than he should? I mean, I really like him and his aggressiveness, but sometimes, he tries to take over on offense and he hurts the flow of our game. His contract is up at the end of the year. Should we look to keep him for a minimum price, or let him walk and give a rookie an opportunity?
    Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

  2. #2
    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,825

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Considering we don't have Dun and Granger just got back we had to use him. I think we should resign him for thr min
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



  3. #3
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    A-Town , Indiana
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,983

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I mean, I really like him and his aggressiveness, but sometimes, he tries to take over on offense and he hurts the flow of our game.

    LMAO sorry pianoman , but if you didn't have the name Stephen Graham in the thread title , I would have SWORE this thread was about TJ by reading this.. haha

    sorry carry on ...
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

  4. #4
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Now that Jack is playing more PG and with no dunleavy or marquis, He pretty much has to play graham.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,436

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Is it just me, or does JOB use Graham more than he should? I mean, I really like him and his aggressiveness, but sometimes, he tries to take over on offense and he hurts the flow of our game. His contract is up at the end of the year. Should we look to keep him for a minimum price, or let him walk and give a rookie an opportunity?
    Last year, Graham was playing in very limited spurts. And in those limited spurs he played pretty decently, causing people to ask "why doesn't JOB play Stephen Graham more?" Well now this year due to some injuries, Graham is playing more.....and showing why JOB never played him much last season when there wasn't an injury problem.

    The next time someone asks "why doesn't coach play Player X more because Player X rips it up everytime he comes in for 4 minutes at a time", remember that coaches will sometimes play certain guys limited minutes in select matchups, because he knows the more he sees the floor the more his limitations are going to be exposed.
    Last edited by d_c; 03-23-2009 at 02:40 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    His contract is up at the end of the year. Should we look to keep him for a minimum price, or let him walk and give a rookie an opportunity?

    Ist where are you going to get a player with 4 years experience that has played in O'Brien's system for 2 years at the salary he'll get with the Pacers in economic straits? It's a no brainer you keep him if he wants to stay.

    As for a rookie SG? I didn't realize the Pacers needs in the draft included a rookie SG. I was under the assumption that the teams needs for the future were PF & PG. Why draft another SG when you drafted Rush last year? Unless you are saying he's not the future SG or that NBA ready player isn't panning out as Bird had anticipated. The chance of another Bayless dropping in the Pacers lap again at their drafting spot isn't highly likely, and the Pacers have more important needs to fill than at SG. I can't see where a rookie SG would be getting much PT to develop under JO'B next year. JO'B willl stay even more so with playing vets next year in order to win in his last year of his contract.

    I've stated recently I don't feel the Pacers roster next season will have the quality of players, the depth, nor the experience this years team does. Add Dunleavy's injury and Quis' team option not being picked up so another rookie at SG isn't the answer. You keep Graham for the price and experience. JMOAA
    Last edited by Justin Tyme; 03-23-2009 at 09:44 AM.

  7. #7
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Last year, Graham was playing in very limited spurts. And in those limited spurs he played pretty decently, causing people to ask "why doesn't JOB play Stephen Graham more?" Well now this year due to some injuries, Graham is playing more.....and showing why JOB never played him much last season when there wasn't an injury problem.

    The next time someone asks "why doesn't coach play Player X more because Player X rips it up everytime he comes in for 4 minutes at a time", remember that coaches will sometimes play certain guys limited minutes in select matchups, because he knows the more he sees the floor the more his limitations are going to be exposed.
    I didn't ask this because Graham has never shown any defense.

    Graham can score and if you need scoring then he's fine to play. However if his jumper is off you might as well pull him out right then.

    He's also perhaps the best dunker the NBA Pacers have ever had, other than perhaps Kenny Williams. Hmm, interesting comparison actually. I say cut bait this year, he's not part of a long term plan IMO.

    Where will you find a replacement? Um, anywhere. Why not get something a bit more useful if you are going to have a guy with gaping holes in his game.


    Contrast that with McRoberts who plays well in a variety of matchups and is not particularly weak at either end of the court. Instead he appears to be a guy that is finally living up to the expectations that were on him when he went to Duke. It makes sense that he is playing better, just like it made sense when an undrafted Brad Miller got motivated and showed a "surprising" all-star caliber game.

    Not every guy not playing should be deep on the bench. I agree that for every scrub there will be 2-3 posters begging for them to play. But with McRoberts it's more than just 1-2 guys.

  8. #8
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,170

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    I wouldn't resign him. I'd give a rookie a shot

  9. #9
    Member pacergod2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    2,885
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    If we get him for a minimum deal then I think you have to keep him here. He is a good scorer and we don't have enough of that from our bench. He is a specialist. Just like a lot of players can only shoot the three or rebound or play defense. Its the nature of how they made it to the NBA. He is a solid player, and for the sake of keeping a few more familiar faces around I think you have to keep him over some undrafted rookie. But I think he still is our fourth wing player. Perfect for a minimum salary. If he wants more than that he will find his way to Europe.

  10. #10
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,767

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Last year, Graham was playing in very limited spurts. And in those limited spurs he played pretty decently, causing people to ask "why doesn't JOB play Stephen Graham more?" Well now this year due to some injuries, Graham is playing more.....and showing why JOB never played him much last season when there wasn't an injury problem.

    The next time someone asks "why doesn't coach play Player X more because Player X rips it up everytime he comes in for 4 minutes at a time", remember that coaches will sometimes play certain guys limited minutes in select matchups, because he knows the more he sees the floor the more his limitations are going to be exposed.
    We as fans also need to realize coaches see players in practice. Coaches see players work ethic, coaches see things we don't even consider. That is why I don't criticize coaches for not playing certain players - we don't have all the info. As most of you know I argue in favor of coaches knowing who to play and not to play.

    So when JOB doesn't play McRoberts, I trust JOB. Coaches know their players a lot better than any of us ever will.

  11. #11
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,476

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He's also perhaps the best dunker the NBA Pacers have ever had, other than perhaps Kenny Williams.
    There was this one dude, named Fred Jones, he won an NBA Dunk Contest as a Pacer... he mighta been "ok" at dunking.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    Where will you find a replacement? Um, anywhere.


    Not every guy not playing should be deep on the bench. I agree that for every scrub there will be 2-3 posters begging for them to play. But with McRoberts it's more than just 1-2 guys.


    If they were so easy to find anywhere, why do teams like the Bucks have such poor benchs? They aren't anywhere/everywhere like you propose. Those bench players that can produce when called upon in this economic enviroment are going to be the type of players teams will be looking to get or to keep.


    You really have a short memory. Last year this board, other boards as well, was clamoring for JO'B to give Graham more PT. He was producing when he got minutes. It is the same clamoring this year with McBob. Chances are if McBob is still a Pacers next year it will be the same as like Graham this year. The only difference is McBob has more possible upside than Graham, but he'll never be close to the PF the Pacers need. He's nothing more than an energy player with some athleticism at best. A David Lee is something he's never going to be, but I'd settle for McBob being a Chris "Birdman" Anderson w/o the baggage. IMO, he'll never be that either. I don't see McBob being this important rotational player others seem to feel he will be. JMOAA

  13. #13
    Member OakMoses's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,031

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    I'm fine with keeping Graham. He's as good of a 3rd string SG as you'll find.

    I think there are a couple reasons JO'B plays Graham. The first is that I'd guess he practices just as hard or harder than any guy on the team. O'Brien has to reward that. It seems to me that each uptick in Graham's minutes has been accompanied by a "You have to play the guys that work hard in practice comment."

    Also, I think JO'B uses Graham to prove things to Rush. It's something like "See how aggressive this guy is? You know you're a better player than him, right?"
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

  14. #14

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We as fans also need to realize coaches see players in practice. Coaches see players work ethic, coaches see things we don't even consider. That is why I don't criticize coaches for not playing certain players - we don't have all the info. As most of you know I argue in favor of coaches knowing who to play and not to play.

    So when JOB doesn't play McRoberts, I trust JOB. Coaches know their players a lot better than any of us ever will.

    I wish I could believe in that optimistic philosophy about coaches, but then Nellie immediately comes to mind.

  15. #15
    Release Psycho T pwee31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    7,170

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We as fans also need to realize coaches see players in practice. Coaches see players work ethic, coaches see things we don't even consider. That is why I don't criticize coaches for not playing certain players - we don't have all the info. As most of you know I argue in favor of coaches knowing who to play and not to play.

    So when JOB doesn't play McRoberts, I trust JOB. Coaches know their players a lot better than any of us ever will.
    UB you're talking about Practice, Practice... not a game... not a game, but Practice! You're talking about Practice!

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    437

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You really have a short memory. Last year this board, other boards as well, was clamoring for JO'B to give Graham more PT. He was producing when he got minutes. It is the same clamoring this year with McBob. Chances are if McBob is still a Pacers next year it will be the same as like Graham this year. The only difference is McBob has more possible upside than Graham, but he'll never be close to the PF the Pacers need. He's nothing more than an energy player with some athleticism at best. A David Lee is something he's never going to be, but I'd settle for McBob being a Chris "Birdman" Anderson w/o the baggage. IMO, he'll never be that either. I don't see McBob being this important rotational player others seem to feel he will be. JMOAA
    What have you seen that makes you so sure that is his upside?

  17. #17
    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    The Coliseum
    Posts
    6,248

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There was this one dude, named Fred Jones, he won an NBA Dunk Contest as a Pacer... he mighta been "ok" at dunking.
    As was Terrence Stansbury and Darnell didn't get the name Dr. Dunk for nothing.

  18. #18
    Member Since86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Muncie
    Posts
    21,075

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We as fans also need to realize coaches see players in practice. Coaches see players work ethic, coaches see things we don't even consider. That is why I don't criticize coaches for not playing certain players - we don't have all the info. As most of you know I argue in favor of coaches knowing who to play and not to play.

    So when JOB doesn't play McRoberts, I trust JOB. Coaches know their players a lot better than any of us ever will.
    That argument went out the window the day we were told JO wasn't practicing with the team, eventhough when JOb was hired he said if you didn't practice, you didn't play.

    Every time a thread pops up asking what people don't like about JOb, that's part of my gripe.

    He came in talking a big game about what his expectations were from players, and how everyone, including the star players, had to earn their playing time.

    Well, JO didn't practice but played just the same amount as he would if he did.

    JOb is going to give the established player, even if they're washed up like Rasho, the nod before any end of the bench player.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote


    JOb is going to give the established player, even if they're washed up like
    Rasho, the nod before any end of the bench player.


    You think it's bad this year wait until next year when he has Hibbert, Rush, McBob(if he's still here), and 2 rookies from the up coming draft. That's 5 out of 15 young players on the roster. Just how much you think those new draft picks are going to be playing in Obie's contract year?

    That leaves

    Ford
    Granger
    Murphy
    Foster
    Diener
    Jack... if he's here.
    Graham... if he's here.
    Dunleavy... misses a hunk of the season if not all of it.
    Tinsley.. if he hasn't been bought out.

    That leaves 1 roster spot to be filled if Graham and Jack are back and if Tinsley isn't bought out. If Graham isn't on the roster like some propose, that is 2 spots that will have to be filled with those easy to find "anywhere players" with valuable experience who can be gotten cheap that can be role players that produce. Possibly 3 if Tinsley is waived or bought out.

    Lets say that Jack and Graham are back, and Dun is injured. That means the Pacers have 7 players with numerous years experience plus this years rookies Hibbert and Rush. Those 7 vets and Hibbert and Rush will get be getting the minutes. The rest will only get blowout, mop up, injury, or players in foul minutes.

    Bird will be lucky to be able to bring in some new KRush, Diener, Flip Murray type players to fill out the roster and stay out of LT Land unless he can make a trade that includes one or more of Ford, Murphy, Dunleavy, or "Tinsley" and the chances of that happening is slim and next to none.

    Add this to if Granger, Murphy, and Jack don't have the seasons they have had this season, it's going to make for a loooooong season next year. Just be prepared. JMOAA

  20. #20

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What have you seen that makes you so sure that is his upside?
    Not sure about what you are asking. Are up asking what makes me think McBob upside is his energy and athleticism? Or something else?

  21. #21
    Member Trophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    8,556

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    I think we shouldn't resign him hoping Brandon is with us next season will fill Stephen's place. Stephen has it games here and there. He's definitly better this season than last season

  22. #22
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,236

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    We as fans also need to realize coaches see players in practice. Coaches see players work ethic, coaches see things we don't even consider. That is why I don't criticize coaches for not playing certain players - we don't have all the info. As most of you know I argue in favor of coaches knowing who to play and not to play.

    So when JOB doesn't play McRoberts, I trust JOB. Coaches know their players a lot better than any of us ever will.
    That's part of the story. As usual in our society and particularly in the NBA, the other part has to do with money.

    With Jeff Foster and Troy Murphy, we have two pretty decent PF's with a lot of NBA experience. Nothing flashy, but both players are arguably starters on scrub teams in the NBA. Troy has the highest salary on the team. Jeff has the 5th highest of active players and soon to be the 3rd highest of active players if Quis and Rasho go bye bye. That's getting pretty close to 20 million tied up on two very average NBA starters...and a significant percentage of our cap.

    What happens if JOb plays Josh and sits Troy and Jeff? Well, that may result in a number of bad things. First, it can only hurt Troy and Jeff's trade value. That's not good when you have 20 million tied up. Second, it makes the owners look foolish for over-paying bench warmers. It's not good to make your bosses look too foolish. Third, it has the potential to cause problems in the locker room. Not too likely with these players, but just another risk. Also, it will raise Josh's market value if he plays well. That means we contend with other teams when we look to re-sign him. It is just a lose-lose situation when you have highly paid vets who are not obviously inferior players than the rookie.

    There may very well be other weightier reasons for not playing McBob, but these are enough to keep him glued to the bench too.

    Edit: Wow. Josh is paid only 7% of what Troy is paid.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 03-23-2009 at 07:54 PM.

  23. #23
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    I don't think this Graham Mcbob comparison holds any water.

    In limited minutes last year, Graham showed that he could score, now in some more extended oppurtunities, he has also shown he can't do anything else. People wondered if he might be a player, we knew he could score, we knew he was agressive... I was curious myself, but he has been exposed at this point.

    In limited minutes this year, Josh has shown he can do a LOT of things. I have seen him block shots, play really good man defense, pull down tough rebounds, take a guy off the dribble and dunk, hit a long jump shot, pass at a high level... guy has size, guy has the hops.

    Josh Mcroberts was once one of the top high school recruits in the country, Stephan Graham is Joey Grahams twin brother.

    Josh is really raw, came out of college too early, had a bit of a bad rep attitudewise, but I try not to factor this stuff into my analysis. I just try to analyze what I have seen when he has been on the court, he is a guy who can DO a lot of stuff. I am quite intrigued by this. reputations aside. If you have seen him play you cannot deny the upside there. Not superstar upside, but "end of bench guy" doesn't really tell the whole story. The guy has barely gotten a chance to play and its only his second year.

    People sometimes talk about Mcroberts like he is this "known commidity" ...When in reality he is younger than our two prized rookies Hibbert and Rush. Youngest guy on the team. With a coach that favors vets and is already being pressured to play two rookies, it isn't really surprising to me that he isn't finding Josh any minutes this season. You know he isn't getting on the court till he has mastered Obrien's damn "defensive system" that doesen't seem to work anyway.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 03-23-2009 at 08:41 PM.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Lafayette, IN
    Age
    28
    Posts
    437

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Not sure about what you are asking. Are up asking what makes me think McBob upside is his energy and athleticism? Or something else?
    You said it was likely he would be the equivalent of a Stephen Graham if given time, and that his upside would hopefully result in Chris Anderson but that seems unlikely.

    I'm curious, what you have seen that would lead you to believe this.

  25. #25
    Member OakMoses's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Montana
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,031

    Default Re: Stephen Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyMurphy3 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I think we shouldn't resign him hoping Brandon is with us next season will fill Stephen's place.
    Stephen's place is the end of the bench. I'm expecting a lot more than that from Brandon next year.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

Similar Threads

  1. Stephen Jackson of Golden State Warriors suspended one game [ESPN]
    By RoboHicks in forum NBA Headlines (RSS Feeds)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-16-2009, 03:30 PM
  2. Replies: 22
    Last Post: 11-18-2008, 04:13 PM
  3. Stephen Jackson looking for an extension....
    By Smoothdave1 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-25-2008, 07:14 PM
  4. Ric Bucher article on Stephen Jackson
    By BPump33 in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 02-19-2008, 09:39 PM
  5. Is Mike Dunleavy the new Stephen Jackson?
    By idioteque in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 01-08-2008, 01:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •