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Thread: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

  1. #1
    Member denyfizle's Avatar
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    Default Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Carlisle returns to Indy to face old team with old problems

    http://www.examiner.com/x-3586-India...h-old-problems

    Dennis Anthony Guillermo
    Indiana Pacers Examiner



    When ex-Pacers coach Rick Carlisle was relieved of his job after the 2006-07 NBA season, the Pacers had just missed it's first playoff appearance in a decade.

    The Pacers finished with a 35-47 record that year and after just signing a contract extension with the team prior to the season, Carlisle was ultimately let go.

    In four seasons as the Pacers' coach, Carlisle compiled a 181-147 record. That record however does not fully reflect the brilliant job and service this man did for the franchise. It was Carlisle's Rudy Giulianiesque calm and demeanor that kept the Pacers afloat during the most troubled times in the franchise's history. You can say the team went through 911 and Ron Artest is pretty much, well, Bin Laden.

    Carlisle however kept the Pacers competitive despite having to deal with a line-up of players straight from the movie "The Replacements". Who can forget Britton Johnsen, Tremaine Fowlke and Marcus Haislip's illustrious Pacer careers? How about when Eddie Gill took over the shorthanded Pacers team and was putting up Chris Paul numbers? Ahh those were the days.

    Not only did Carlisle have to deal with the brawl and it's aftermath, he also had unfortunate luck with players getting injured and trades coming from all angles. Through it all though, the Pacers were always competitive.
    Indiana made the playoffs in three of the four seasons and reached the Eastern Conference Finals in Carlisle's first year. That same season, the Pacers posted a franchise-best 61-21 record.

    (click the link for the full article) Thanks!
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 03-20-2009 at 08:47 AM.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    It was nice to have a coach with some personality.

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    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    It was nice to have a coach with some personality.
    it was nice to have a coach who knew about real basketball.

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    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    it was nice to have a coach who knew about real basketball.
    Give me a break.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Give me a break.

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    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Give me a break.
    I don't get it. Although their styles are different, both coaches have effective coaching systems. This statement almost seems to indicate that Obie is clearly a better coach than Carlisle, when at best it is a wash.

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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    If you havin' depth problems, I feel bad for you son; I got 99 problems but a bench ain't one! - Hicks
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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I don't get it. Although their styles are different, both coaches have effective coaching systems. This statement almost seems to indicate that Obie is clearly a better coach than Carlisle, when at best it is a wash.
    That isn't what that statement indicates at all. DC isn't saying that JOB is better, only that Carlisle didn't get fired over his x's and o's.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I don't get it. Although their styles are different, both coaches have effective coaching systems. This statement almost seems to indicate that Obie is clearly a better coach than Carlisle, when at best it is a wash.
    Not to put words in his mouth, but I don't believe he was saying Obie is clearly better than Carlisle. I believe he was saying that xtacy's implication that Obie doesn't know anything about basketball, or coach "real" basketball, was unfounded.

    It was not dcp's post that indicated that one was better than the other, rather xtacy's.

    BTW...I tend to agree that it's a wash. Carlisle does some things better, while Obie does others. Stylistically, I prefer O'Brien, but that's style, not substance. I would take either, given the right talent.

    Carlisle did a really good job the first two years, a spotty job the third, and I thought he did a bad job his fourth year. I have the same general opinion about Larry Brown, who I happen to think was the best coach this franchise had.

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    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    Give me a break.
    ok and you give me a coach that values defense at least a little.

    a coach that says 'i like this run 'n gun type of games. i think that's the way this game is meant to be played' after a 127-120 win doesn't know a thing about real basketball imo. he can only succeed at rucker park.

    JOB basketball=defenseless basketball=rucker park basketball=not real basketball

    i know at least %90 of this forum will disagree becasue i know you guys just love JOB. i've been saying what i'm trying to say right now from the beginning of the season and what i got most of the time were objections like i think JOB is doing a good job considering he don't have much to work with or this team is fun to watch.

    i live in turkey so i only get the chance to watch pacers on tv 10 times(if i'm lucky) in a year and today is one of them. dallas game is broadcasted and i still couldn't decide whether to watch it or not. tell me is this team fun to watch?

    i get upset when i watch this team lately and we are not high in the standings. so what else? am i missing something? i'd bet on everything i have that we could have done better with carlisle this season. at least we could have won more of the close games we lost because of that genius coaching and clutch time plays of JOB.

  11. #11
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Haha. Can we pull up the "fire Rick Carlisle posts" from a couple years ago? In fact, I think the first thread I started four years ago questioned Rick's coaching.

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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by xtacy View Post
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    ok and you give me a coach that values defense at least a little.

    a coach that says 'i like this run 'n gun type of games. i think that's the way this game is meant to be played' after a 127-120 win doesn't know a thing about real basketball imo. he can only succeed at rucker park.

    JOB basketball=defenseless basketball=rucker park basketball=not real basketball

    i know at least %90 of this forum will disagree becasue i know you guys just love JOB. i've been saying what i'm trying to say right now from the beginning of the season and what i got most of the time were objections like i think JOB is doing a good job considering he don't have much to work with or this team is fun to watch.

    i live in turkey so i only get the chance to watch pacers on tv 10 times(if i'm lucky) in a year and today is one of them. dallas game is broadcasted and i still couldn't decide whether to watch it or not. tell me is this team fun to watch?

    i get upset when i watch this team lately and we are not high in the standings. so what else? am i missing something? i'd bet on everything i have that we could have done better with carlisle this season. at least we could have won more of the close games we lost because of that genius coaching and clutch time plays of JOB.
    I don't love O'Brien, but he's not the worst coach the Pacers ever had either. All I'm saying is that it is straight up disrespectful to someone who coaches on an NBA level for some fan who watches 10 games a year to say that the coach "doesn't know basketball." It is just a hackish type of comment to make and doesn't really make any sense. Of course O'Brien knows basketball. He's taken a team to the Eastern Conference Finals, which is miles away from Rucker Park.

    I don't see how you can say the O'Brien is a defenseless coach since that would imply no defense at all, which would mean the Pacers would be last in the league in points given up, whereas that is not the case.
    Last edited by idioteque; 03-20-2009 at 03:29 PM.

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    Member Evan_The_Dude's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    I never wanted Carlisle gone. If he can do a good job coaching nobodies, then I think he could make some things happen with the squad we have now vs. the one he had in his last season.

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    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Obviously I agree with Evan. You give Wolfgang Puck dog scraps and you aren't getting a good meal, period.

    Is it just blind luck that he went to the 2nd round 4 straight years, 2 ECFs, but when given a team that JOB had no more success with he stopped winning? Heck, JOB got the whole summer and was going to "fix" Tinsley. I'd say other than his rookie year Tinsley's most effective was in Rick's first season.

    In fact there's a long list of players who never played better than when they were coached by Rick.

  15. #15
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    As good as he was for the first two years, at the end, Rick was a part of the problem, not the solution, and he deserved to be fired.
    Last edited by count55; 03-22-2009 at 12:22 AM.

  16. #16
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    As good as he was for the first two years, at the end, Rick was a part of the problem, not the solution, and he deserved to be fired.
    The only thing is, if we would've committed to sending Tinsley to the Siberian front sooner and getting rid of JO then maybe I could've seen giving Carlisle more time to turn things back around.

    There was no turn around with those two anywhere near the team and Carlisle as the coach any longer. That ship had sailed. Ultimately, there was no real turn around with those two players and our next coach either...

    -Bball
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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Haha. Can we pull up the "fire Rick Carlisle posts" from a couple years ago? In fact, I think the first thread I started four years ago questioned Rick's coaching.
    I wasn't one of them.

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    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    The only thing is, if we would've committed to sending Tinsley to the Siberian front sooner and getting rid of JO then maybe I could've seen giving Carlisle more time to turn things back around.
    This.

    It still depresses me how TPTB have been so far behind the 8 ball on personnel decisions in recent years. We keep JO and Tinsley too long, we bring Artest back, we keep Shawne too long...ugh.
    Last edited by idioteque; 03-22-2009 at 01:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    I wasn't one of them.
    I wasn't either. Personally, I would have revamped the whole roster before I touched Carlisle. I think he was just canned so that the Pacers management could show the public that they are doing something (they can't revamp the roster easily, but they need to show the public that they are taking action, etc).

  20. #20

    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    i took this one from espn years ago .. same year of the brawl

    Somebody else will be your NBA Coach of the Year. The likeliest somebody is Scott Skiles, the former Plymouth High star who has led the Bulls back from lottery purgatory. And there are persuasive cases to be made, too, for Phoenix's Mike D'Antoni and Seattle's Nate McMillan.

    There's virtually no way Indiana's Rick Carlisle will win that award because: A.) the other candidates have built up so much public momentum; and B.) he won it in 2002.

    But he deserves something.

    An FTD floral bouquet. A hearty pat on the back. Free oil changes for life from your local, participating Jiffy Lube. An additional stroke or two on each side.

    Something.

    Because what he and his staff have done with this team -- or the skeletal remains of this team -- is utterly remarkable. Forget the job Carlisle did in resurrecting the Pistons, or winning 61 games last season with the Pacers. This has been his best job, maybe the best job in the NBA, even if it doesn't get him any hardware.

    "I think Rick could be a candidate every year," Pacers president Larry Bird said before Wednesday night's playoff-clinching 90-86 victory over the New Jersey Nets. "But this year has been pretty special because of how our team has played through all the adversity, how he's held them together."

    What kind of year has it been? Carlisle has looked at more lineups than an FBI mob informant. The Pacers have had 28 starting combinations, none for more than seven games.

    When Carlisle was asked before Wednesday's game about the season's worth of madness, he mused, "What's your definition of normal?"

    At the risk of delving into Clintonian semantics, let's say that while normalcy is a relative term, this season has not been normal by anybody's definition.

    It started with the Nov. 19 brawl in Auburn Hills, Mich. and it hasn't gotten much saner since. There was a game when the Pacers fielded a team of six players. There were nights when we were introduced to Marcus Haislip, Tremaine Fowlkes and the immortal Britten Johnson. There was the bomb threat in Auburn Hills. And there were injuries, plenty of them.

    Now look.

    The playoffs.

    "I'm really proud of them because they know it's (Reggie Miller's) last year, and they've stepped up, with Reggie, to get us to the playoffs," Bird said. "And you hear things -- nobody wants to play us in the playoffs -- and that's a lot to say about a team that's gone through the stuff we've gone through this year."

    Of all the things Carlisle did with this team, the most important was his refusal to let them wallow in self-pity. They could have felt like victims when commissioner David Stern came down harshly upon them. They could have felt like the season was doomed when the injuries mounted. Who could have blamed them? They had every conceivable excuse for failure at their disposal.

    Carlisle, though, wouldn't let anybody take the easy way out, remaining relentlessly optimistic and emotionally unflappable, no matter how crazy things got.

    And he had help.

    He had a lot of help in a locker room filled with professionals -- especially Miller, who refused to let his final season go down the drain, leaving the locals with one more memory to cherish Wednesday.

    And he had help from Indiana's fans, who kept showing up and refused to let this team quit.

    "I can only think of one small stretch when I think we felt a little bit sorry for ourselves," Pacers forward Austin Croshere said before the game. "It was when we played with just six guys. We played well early, but then that wore off. We kind of went through this weird mental thing where we were always thinking, 'Well, we've got Jermaine (O'Neal) coming back. Or well, we've got (Stephen) Jackson coming back.'

    "It really wasn't until this last 15 games, after J.O. got hurt and Dale Davis came in, we realized, 'We're not waiting on anybody anymore. Nobody's going to come back now. So either we make it happen or we don't.' "

    Somehow, they've made it happen.

    They've made it happen with Anthony Johnson playing out of his mind, with Miller acting like he's 24 again, with role players such as James Jones and Eddie Gill making unlikely contributions.

    And Carlisle has adjusted.

    So, are they better off without O'Neal?

    That's great talk-radio fodder, but it's dumb as can be, especially given the quality of Indiana's opponents through this stretch. They need a healthy, productive O'Neal in the playoffs, or they're not going to stick around long enough to see Miami or Detroit

    Still, could anybody have imagined this would be the Pacers' lineup in the final moments of a game when the playoffs were on the line?

    Jackson and Miller, sure. But James Jones? Johnson? Davis? Not a chance.

    Somebody has done a brilliant coaching job.

    He just won't have an award to show for it.

    Last edited by Miller4ever; 03-22-2009 at 01:39 PM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Quote Originally Posted by ABADays View Post
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    It was nice to have a coach with some personality.
    Carlisle's personality only showed when he was hired and when he left. He was the same guy w/ little shown personality every day in between.

  22. #22
    Our hero! GrangerRanger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    Let's put it this way: You give Obie the brawl team and he wouldn't make it to the first round of the playoffs, let a lone the second (almost beating the pistons too).

    Obie is a "good" coach. He knows how to run a good offense with what he has (screens, and what not). But I have season tickets and have only been to 9 games because I can't stand to watch this idiot call plays like, "TJ YOU TAKE THE BALL WITH 9 SECS AND BACK DOWN AT HALF COURT AND SHOOT A FADE A WAY", or the fact that he doesn't know a rotation if it hit him in the ***. Larry Bird sit my decision on season tickets renewal in stone when he said that horrible monstrosity of a mistake was going to be back on the bench.

    And as for the argument "Obie does things better and Rick does.. blah". Yeah. Your correct. Obie knows how to run an offense that has proven never to win championships. Rick understood defense. I never watched the screen in the fourth, on any team, and had no faith in Rick. The guy knew what players were susposed to be subbed in at the right points, who took the shots, and that his point guard shouldn't be posting up at the half court line for a lob sided, off balanced jumper with 10 secs left in the game.

  23. #23
    Order more copier toner. Haggard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Article about Carlisle's return to Indy

    I must admit that I never understood the Rick disdain especially late in his career with the Pacers..
    Whether you liked him or not, you have to agree that Rick understands the game... a lot and often got the job done.
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