Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Hibbert's "PER"

  1. #1
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,479

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Hibbert's "PER"

    I don't take a *ton* of stock in these "systems", but it is mildly interesting that Hibbert ranks 8th amongst rookies in Hollinger's "PER" system:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli...seasonType%3d2

    He's 8th, and I might add, above Rose, Mayo, Westbrook, Gordon --- and two other dudes *ahem*: Rush and Bayless.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-13-2009 at 05:00 PM.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,436

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    FWIW, Ike Diogu's PER during his rookie year was through the roof. John Hollinger was talking about him like he was the next coming. Not saying Hibbert is destined to be the next Ike, but those kinds of stats don't mean much in limited minutes.

  3. #3
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    There is truth to the PER, but it always requires a bit of qualifying.

    But then don't all stats. 40 points per game sounds great without the 20 for 100 on shooting per night.

    Roy's had a good PER most of the year. Part of it is his points in limited minutes. However he is the very reason his minutes are often limited due to fouls.

  4. #4
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Broadripple
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,253

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    One thing Iv'e noticed about PER, is that it favors bigmen. Just look at that top 10. I think this may be due to FG%, which is usually higher for post players.
    "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

    - ilive4sports

  5. #5
    Member spazzxb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    fort wayne In
    Age
    35
    Posts
    2,816

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by d_c View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    FWIW, Ike Diogu's PER during his rookie year was through the roof. John Hollinger was talking about him like he was the next coming. Not saying Hibbert is destined to be the next Ike, but those kinds of stats don't mean much in limited minutes.
    Diogo is incapable of passing out of a double team. Once teams realized this he became ineffective. Roy has no such Achilles heal.

  6. #6
    Womens Wrestling Champion El Pacero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    718

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Roy told Smooth in his 3rd video that he leads the league in fouls per minute. ha

  7. #7
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NYC
    Age
    33
    Posts
    12,158

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Roy has no such Achilles heal.
    Other than that whole "inability to quickly move his Achilles heel" thing.
    Read my Pacers blog:
    8points9seconds.com

    Follow my twitter:

    @8pts9secs


  8. #8
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    5,772

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Other than that whole "inability to quickly move his Achilles heel" thing.
    And, of course, an arrow to the heel is the only way to kill him.

  9. #9
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    I like Rush. I do.

    But a Speights / Hibbert frontcourt sure would have been nice.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  10. #10
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    4,479

    Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Well, my thoughts on this topic...

    1) A big point I tried to make in the original post is that there's been so much fire about who we shoulda taken, Rush or Bayless, that lost in all that is the possible reality that our #17 pick might have been the real story.

    2) Just a quick glance at the "categories" that PER judges upon immediately shows to me that they are almost all offensive categories, and thus will not truly measure the impact that a defensive excelling player like Rush will have on a team. Hibbert's offensive production has been impressive for where he was selected, and especially for a man of his size, and certainly you can make a case that he's been a better and more consistent offensive contributor than Rush, but I don't know if I can say the same regarding defensive impact between the two players.

    Rush's impact on the defensive end doesn't seem to be reflected in this "ranking", and so, to me it's just a mildly interesting ranking, because it seems to be lacking in evaluating overall contribution. BUT... it does seem to show a relative comparison between players offensively, and would might indicate that Hibbert is holding his own, even against some of the more highly touted Rookie of the Year candidates.
    Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-13-2009 at 10:21 PM.

  11. #11
    soul brother #1 BKK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    HCMC, Vietnam
    Age
    29
    Posts
    889

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    all I know is Big Roy pulled 7 rebounds last night none of them defensive (Troy took all of them ) and there's not even a post game thread to mention it...

    so I put it here and say Bravo Roy! keep up the good work!

  12. #12
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by spazzxb View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Diogo is incapable of passing out of a double team. Once teams realized this he became ineffective. Roy has no such Achilles heal.
    And this also backs the PER to be honest. What it says is this - when people hadn't figured him out he WAS good. Then they did and his PER suffered.

    This applies to minutes played as well. You have a good PER. Okay, I'll play you more. If it keeps up it proves it was real, if it falls way off then it was smoke and mirrors.

    The stat itself isn't "wrong", but as I always say all stats must be taken with a grain of salt. That's NOT THE SAME as totally discarding them as lies and stupidity.


    BKK - yeah, he's definitely showing nice signs and continues to impress me as having that Smits promise. Different style of game of course, but meaning that while raw he does have a couple of things you are going to rely on him to do as your true big/center. Plus you expect the fouls to drop.

    Smits - killer shot
    Roy - post game, but not enough to match Rik's shot

    Smits - meh rebounding, meh defense
    Roy - better boards and defense

    So it's a trade off of offense for defense but ultimately I can see Roy having an OVERALL similar impact on most games. He's not making the big duck under Rollins shot probably, but you won't pull your hair out on his defense the rest of the game either.

    He's way ahead of what I thought he could be in the NBA. I really liked him and loved that he went back for year 4, but after seeing his slowness I had big doubts. Turns out his game works just fine at that slower speed thanks to fundamentals and desire to learn.

  13. #13
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,618

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I like Rush. I do.

    But a Speights / Hibbert frontcourt sure would have been nice.
    How about a Speights, Chalmers, Weaver situation.

    I love Rush, but I also said in the recruit thread last year that someone was going to get a draft slot bargain on both those guys as well as Courtney Lee. It makes me puke.

    Weaver is a better defender than Rush, he's a monster. You could've traded that Rush slot for 2 slots later on, say 25th and 35th range. Argh.


    It reminds me of when the Colts got Edge. Good pick, but had they stepped into that Saints deal instead they could have had several picks and still got Edge. Saints wanted Ricky, Skins wanted Bailey. Edge still could have been on the board.

    I'm greedy, but being greedy pays off sometimes.

    I seriously would have loved to put together a roster of nothing but draft picks this year. Chalmers, Rush, Weaver, Speights, Hibbert. That's a really good defensive team that only needs one more shooter to top it off (ie, Granger).

  14. #14
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    23,738

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I really liked him and loved that he went back for year 4, but after seeing his slowness I had big doubts. Turns out his game works just fine at that slower speed thanks to fundamentals and desire to learn.
    And honestly, he's not nearly as slow as I expected. He moves well at this weight... if he'd been in this kind of shape in college he'd have been a monster.
    Welcome to Pacers Digest! New around here? Here are three tips for making the forum a great place to talk about Pacers basketball.

    • Log in. Even if you want to read instead of post, it's helpful because it lets you:
    • Change your signature options. You can hide all signatures by choosing "Settings" (top right) then "General Settings" (middle left) and unchecking the box "Show Signatures" (in the "Thread Display Options" area).
    • Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

    Enjoy your time at PD!

  15. #15
    Womens Wrestling Champion El Pacero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    718

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Smits - meh rebounding, meh defense
    Roy - better boards and defense
    I agree with all of this, but boy did JOB give Hibbert a hard time regarding defense last night. "Roy (Hibbert) struggled at the defensive end tonight, guarding pick-and-rolls. The game is played at both ends of the court, and you need to have a balanced attack offensively and defensively if you’re going to win in this league.”

  16. #16

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Whatever his place in the NBA ends up being, no one can argue that it's been thoroughly refreshing to see a team on the court that plays hard and hasn't made the wrong headlines for off the court issues. For that reason alone I like Roy.

  17. #17
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,246

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Roy is getting better. I now have no doubt he is going to be a good starting C. 5 out of 8 games in double figures. Each month he has improved. When he gets stronger and is able to maintain his balance, he will be a much, much better player. If he really works in the weight room, he could become a monster. He has the skills unlike a lot of big stiffs out there...

  18. #18
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    A-Town , Indiana
    Age
    39
    Posts
    4,983

    Thumbs up Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Roy is getting better. I now have no doubt he is going to be a good starting C. 5 out of 8 games in double figures. Each month he has improved. When he gets stronger and is able to maintain his balance, he will be a much, much better player. If he really works in the weight room, he could become a monster. He has the skills unlike a lot of big stiffs out there...

    Agree 100%

    Hibbert has been a joy watching as he gets more and more attuned to the "NBA" style of play ..

    I see a Center that will avg. 14-16 pts per game his sophomore season..

    Other than working on his body positioning , his hands , and ultimately his fouls .. He really don't have anything that he CAN'T improve on if he continues to show his willingness to learn and determination as he has been..

    I agree he needs , not to gain weight so much, but to gain some more upper body muscle ..

    I would like to see Hibby work on his rebounds, which goes hand in hand with anticipation and floor positioning..

    Hopefully we will see alot more plays drawn up for him next season .
    I think he could be unstoppable around the rim ,if he works on the above things ..
    Like I said for a rookie Center , especially a #17 pick , he has exceeded all my expectations as a rookie..

    I'd like to see the ball constantly being fed to him in the post .. Which hopefully comes once his teammates gain more trust in him to convert..

    I am more impressed with Roy than I am with Rush this year .. But I am shocked Rush has been as good defensively as he has been ..

    Hopefully next season , both our rooks will have breakout seasons...
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
    "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

  19. #19
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,246

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Granger merely showed promise his rookie season. Many people thought his forte' would be defense. I think I even did. But I also saw the potential for him to be an offensive force...although I did not expect that to be beyond the arc so much.

    Hibbert is showing more promise than Rush. I actually think Hibbert needs both more lower body and upper body strength. I don't think quickness is his problem in the NBA...so improvements are likely. In a couple years, he will be much stronger and he will become difficult to stop on offense. ...but the Pacers need to play a slower brand of basketball and use ball movement rather than player movement to maximize his talents.

  20. #20
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    28
    Posts
    5,299

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Hibbert's "PER"

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Granger merely showed promise his rookie season. Many people thought his forte' would be defense. I think I even did.

    He still could be a great defender. He just doesn't try on that end anymore. It's a shame. I love the scoring as much as the next guy but it's too bad he's just completely neglected any defensive effort on account of him scoring more. I'd rather he score 20 a game and give some defensive effort than score 26 and give up on the other end.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

Similar Threads

  1. A look back at Hibbert's past and growth
    By KennerLeaguer in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 07-11-2008, 06:08 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •