Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Odd thoughts in tough economic times

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 2
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 template Next
  • #1

    Odd thoughts in tough economic times

    It's been awhile since I have done one of these so you will have to forgive me if I go everywhere with this post.

    Right off the bat though I wanted to say that I did my part to help the team, well at least for next season. I officially re-upped for next year and I even upgraded my tickets a little bit. Not really any lower but I am now at a better angle and (well let's just say that Jeff Foster will now be within good earshot of me)

    I want to give credit to my new ticket rep., cool guy to work with and actually watches the games and knows what is going on.

    His name is Troy Brokl (317)917-2972 and if anyone needs tickets for something less than a full season he is your man. Just make sure if you call him you don't use your work phone if you happen to work in emergency services as it will give him a heart attack. (Yes, I know this from personal experiance).

    After years and years and years of going and actually paying for my tickets and not getting upgrades, freebies or anything else from the team and nearly blowing a gasket about people sitting on the floor for free I now can no longer claim to be left on the outside. Troy heard my cries of discontent and for the past two games I have set down on the floor. One he got me the other Donato's provided. Either way I am now more happy.

    Ok, end of paid advertisement for Troy. (honestly though he is a good guy, give him your business).

    Well do I now jump into the fire and say what I have been thinking or do I hold off and talk about the team?

    I think I will start with something light and go with this.

    I do not think that Jim O'Brien has been given enough credit for the teams recent play. We are missing arguabley 3 of our projected 5 starters due to injury and we are still playing tough each and every game. For those of us that doubted that Jim could change styles of play, I think he has proven that false. Notice here lately that we are no longer scoring 120+ ppg and giving up 125?

    We now run far more set plays, we even have Roy run some post up plays during the game.

    I have moaned and complained as much as anyone about O'Brien and his system but I think you have to give credit where credit is due and right now O'Brien has this team competeing each and every night. There would be many teams that would have already shut it down for the year and given up or tuned out the coach, but that is not happening here.

    Now don't get me wrong for the good that I just complimented I will throw this out there as well.

    I think that injury's have forced O'Brien to be a better coach. Notice since Danny has gone out that we no longer play small ball very often? I know that we start a small back court but have you noticed that for 90% of the game we now have an actual center and power forward on the floor at the same time? Notice that since Jeff has been injured Roy has been starting and there have been no DNP-CD's due to not matching up with other teams?

    Here comes my first controversial topic of the day.

    Danny Granger, Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy do NOT work together on the floor.

    When those three were together we were running Troy at center and Mike & Danny at the forward spots. To soft and not enough defense.

    Do you think it is a coincidence that since Mike has been gone and Danny has not been available that our defense has improved? Why?

    Marquis Daniels, Brandon Rush and Jerret Jack are all tougher defenders than Mike and none of them are big enough to play the 4 spot like Danny does so we actually use power forwards there for most of the game.

    Don't get me wrong, I love Granger and want him back. But I think that pinning our hopes on him and Mike working together just will not work.

    BTW, I hate the fact that I have to care about the financial state of the team.

    Nothing takes the fun out of this faster than having to care about salary caps., who makes what and how much money the team needs to shed.

    As it stands right now two of the three catalyst that are helping currently will probably not be back here next year. Marquis and Jack will both probably have to walk this summer and right now they both are what is keeping us competative.

    In fact next year looks to be either equal to or worse than this season as the team has zero ability to spend any money on free agents or improve the club. We are going to be facing a whole new group of players next season while we have several of the big money players not even playing (Tinsley, Dunleavy) and another player getting along in years now with chronic back pain (Foster).

    We are actually looking at a club next year of

    Danny Granger (all-star)
    Troy Murphy (putting up all NBA type numbers)
    Roy Hibbert (2nd year big man)
    T.J. Ford (has a history of injury's)
    Brandon Rush (2nd year player)
    Jeff Foster (solid vet. who is now experiancing chronic pain)
    Travis Diener (vet. who has had injury's)
    Stephen Grahm (Vet who knows his role)

    Then if we can sign him
    Josh McRoberts (young player who does not fit into O'Briens system)

    After that we are looking at a team of

    Rookie first round (sadly once again this is going to be a mid first round pick)
    Second round pick (Dallas has a good record so this won't be very high)
    Whatever D-league player or walk on we can sign on the cheap.

    I want to throw a fit, however this is the first time in my life where I just have to throw my hands up and say "I understand" when the team has to not do anyting to get better on the court.

    Don't get me wrong, I hate it, I hate the fact that I have to care about it, but it is what it is and I know that the owners have no choice in the matter.

    So while every instinct in my body tells me that I should howel at the moon about letting great trade bargaining chips walk away (Rasho, Quis) for nothing, I have resolved that for this year and probably the next couple this is what we are going to have to live with.

    Well, I guess now I will go ahead and dive into what I know will be a very tough subject and one that will probably get me crucified on here with some of the older guys.

    If you will recall I made a series of posts over the summer wanting to get out all of my old demons and start fresh this year. I talked about the brawl, O'Neal, the early 2000 teams, etc., etc.

    However I left out one person in particular, I did this on purpose. I never talked about Donnie Walsh. I did this because frankly I was under the impression that his health was not the best and I just decided to leave it alone and move on.

    I have held that to be true and I still do, so if you think this is going to be my long long post about Donnie well you will be either happy or dissapointed because that is not what I am doing here.

    I am not going to talk about the years of him running the franchise from the basketball stand point, because God knows I could go on and on about that (as many of you that have been reading for the past 15 years can attest to).

    No, today I am going to ask about something I always in fact took for granted and in fact would always be the one thing that I would always throw a bone to for the Walsh Warriors (you know who you are).

    For all of the problems I had with the way he directed the team on the floor I always assumed that he was a great businessman and a wonderful steward of the Simons money.

    I now am severly questioning this.

    If we are to believe the Simons (to me they have earned the benefit of the doubt here, I understand others will disagree but that is not the point of this post) then the team has lost money 19 out of the last 20 years.

    Who has been totally in charge of PS&E that entire time minus the past season and a half?

    Could it be that he was actually overpaying his own free agents to stay when in fact the team could not afford it? I don't know if this is true or not but right now even the most staunch supporter of his has to ask this.

    I don't know how much Donnie was involved in the inner workings of the club beyond the team itself but I know that he was the final arbitor of all things pacers from the mid 80's till just last season so my thought is that there wasn't a hot dog vendor working either MSA or the fieldhouse that he didn't have to give final approval of.

    Did he work out the best financial deals for the team?

    I don't have answers here, I am just asking questions.

    Yes, they are leading questions but other than the Simons who would ultimately be responsible for the clubs business I don't know where else to look.

    You have to understand, some of you guys that are young will just have no idea what I am talking about, but from the mid 80's to just about 3 seasons ago Donnie Walsh was the Pacers management. The Simons, at least in public, were one of the most hands off owners in the NBA. So I have live my life for the past 20 some years believing that if it happened with the Pacers it happened either at Donnie's behest or at the very least his approval.

    Again I go back to this one thought, I always assumed that Donnie was a master of business and money. That is now in doubt.

    I don't want to end this on a sour note so I want to talk about Troy Murphy for a few moments.

    Just to go along with my thoughts about trying my best to let the past go I will say that I have been reading on other threads about Troy Murphy and Dale Davis.

    Contrary to popular belief if you say the name Dale Davis three times I do not appear before you.

    Anyway I made the post a few weeks ago about Troy stealing a few rebounds and it got way out of hand. (not Troy's rebounding, the posts about him stealing the rebounds)

    I just want to give Troy some credit here. Other than Jack, I don't believe anyone has stepped up their game any more than Troy has since Danny has gone down.

    This guy has done it all and has really stepped up his offensive production to try and compensate.

    Look I'm not going to lie, he is softer than I prefer, but he gives you his all when he is on the floor and while maybe every board he gets isn't some fiercely fought battle with other board bangers he still gets rebounds.

    I have been watching him the past few games more closely because I wanted to see if he was cheating on defense to get the boards. In other words was he not playing his man or position just so he could go track down the rebound? I will say this, while his defense could sure use some improvement, I don't think he abandons his post to get the boards.

    I have never cared about his contract, until now and that is only because I am forced to, but I would love to have Troy next to a brute.

    Speaking of which, Paul Milsap is a beast.

    He is what Ike Diagu was supposed to be. To watch him in the second half of that Utah game was a thing of beauty and a joy forever. We have nothing, no one, not one single player or probably even two combined, that can match him in physical strength.

    Ok, sorry didn't mean to end the post with an ode to a Jazz player.

    I will end it on this,



    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

    Welcome back!

    Wish I had more to add other than, nice post.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

      I still think we have a pretty solid shot at re-signing Jack this off season, say 4 in 5 (chances). I think 4/$16 is the likely price tag, and I would resist going much beyond that, if at all.
      Last edited by count55; 03-12-2009, 06:08 AM.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

        I would love to lock up Jack for 6 years. He is the true definition of what a Pacer should be and regardless of his occasional brain farts he brings a hell of a lot to the basketball court.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

          On Walsh being a good businessman, does it even matter?

          The Simons had to know they were losing money and they continued to lose money so it had to be okay at the time. I don't think losing money has much to do with Walsh since it appears he stayed within their budget.

          And what are we really talking about? Bottom line, or after tax write offs?

          As for Jack, like the others I think he will be resigned.
          Last edited by Will Galen; 03-12-2009, 07:15 AM.

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

            Peck, I think the Simons allowed Donnie Walsh to have a high payroll. Don't forget there were several years when the pacers were in the top 5 in payroll. So I don't think Donnie did whatever he wanted without the Simons fully endorsing it.

            I'm not sure if Troy is my new guy or not, someone has called me a few times, but I haven't been able to speak with him.

            I do think Jack will be back next season for sure - or maybe I should say the pacers really want him back and will do almost whatever is necessary to keep him. Sure, there is always a possibility that a team overpays him and he walks.

            No chance Rasho will be back. 0% If no other team wants him and he is willing to play here for the vets min, I think the pacers will say no thanks. Plus he probably will want to go back overseas.

            Daniels - is probably gone - although I'm not ready to say it is for sure yet.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

              First off, these thoughts aren't that odd. Almost everyone is thinking them.

              I wouldn't consider myself too young in the aspect of knowing the financial workings, but more ignorant to an extent. I've stated numerous times that I never cared to follow contracts, deals, bonuses...the whole nine yards when it comes to running an NBA franchise. Heck, I'm a big...big Colts fan. Ask me how much money Peyton gets. I honestly don't know, nor do I care to know.

              Back onto the subject...being the optimist that I am, I can see some changes coming next year with our roster, but I do not feel that they are as bad as you make it out to be, Peck. Yes, the team is losing money, but we have to spend money to make money, regardless where we are now. I'm not saying we go out and land us the ultimate free-agent or whatever, but in order to improve we have to let out a little more cash.

              Which makes me think...why are the Simons way too humble? Why won't they take any of that loan the league is offering? For sure it's high interest from what I understand, but it will help us get over a hump.

              Daniels, I have liked him since Dallas. I really liked Austin, however I will not go into that. With the way he has played this year, minus injuries, I want him back as insurance for Dunleavy. That was really hard to say. Rush is nowhere near most people expected him to be at before the season. You know who you are.

              Jack, other than his blatant misuse of the basketball in the lane, he has had a heck of a year. I say keep him.

              Now onto what I've been looking forward to in this whole response. Let's talk Troy Murphy.

              Although unconventional, Troy has demonstrated night in and night out that he is the best player we have available for the moment. He stepped up in some pretty big shoes, and has even broken a record. I can go on and on...but I shouldn't.

              BTW: dustpan and I now have matching Murphy jerseys. I'm excited.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

                Of course I think Donnie did well with what the Simons gave him.

                On the losses, I really only count the ones since Conseco was built, as we know they were bleeding money in MSA. Anyone surprised by those years either wasn't around or wasn't paying attention to the costs in that building vs. the limited income potential.

                That said, though, I would like to get someone in the Simon's organization to address the discrepancy between the Forbes numbers and the CIB numbers. If that were explained it might go a long way toward giving people confidence in the claims, as opposed to the seemingly growing number of people who believe the Simons are greedy pathological liars out to bankrupt the city of Indianapolis while cackling their way to the bank mattress.
                BillS

                A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

                  Originally posted by BillS View Post
                  Of course I think Donnie did well with what the Simons gave him.

                  On the losses, I really only count the ones since Conseco was built, as we know they were bleeding money in MSA. Anyone surprised by those years either wasn't around or wasn't paying attention to the costs in that building vs. the limited income potential.

                  That said, though, I would like to get someone in the Simon's organization to address the discrepancy between the Forbes numbers and the CIB numbers. If that were explained it might go a long way toward giving people confidence in the claims, as opposed to the seemingly growing number of people who believe the Simons are greedy pathological liars out to bankrupt the city of Indianapolis while cackling their way to the bank mattress.

                  not that hard, to explain that is

                  numbers in Forbes are "pacers", numers now used are "total"
                  the 15 million a year to run CFH are simply what causes the losses atm, without them (excluding one or two years) the team makes a small profit.

                  They can then take a hit in a year over the cap if so required and chances are we can win something, now they are dropping it all into CFH and that stings because the Colts GET money to be in Lucas Oil.

                  simple
                  So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                  If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                  Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

                    I completely agree, Peck, that Trophy at C and Danny at PF is a terrible combo. My question, though, is this: Do you feel better about Danny and Troy being on the court at the same time at their natural positions?

                    And I've always said I don't like the Danny/Dunleavy combo at the swing spots.
                    This space for rent.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

                      Originally posted by able View Post
                      not that hard, to explain that is

                      numbers in Forbes are "pacers", numers now used are "total"
                      the 15 million a year to run CFH are simply what causes the losses atm, without them (excluding one or two years) the team makes a small profit.

                      They can then take a hit in a year over the cap if so required and chances are we can win something, now they are dropping it all into CFH and that stings because the Colts GET money to be in Lucas Oil.

                      simple
                      Yeah, there are lots of ways to figure it out, what I'm hoping for is for someone in the Simon organization to confirm it. For instance, the cost of operating the facility should (I think) be accounted for before Operating Profit, but I don't know what organization that would be considered part of.
                      BillS

                      A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                      Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

                        Originally posted by Peck View Post
                        I never talked about Donnie Walsh.
                        I got this far and quit. I've been to enough forum parties to know how you feel about him. I choose not to rehash it again.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

                          Is it a sign of the times or what that the Walsh Warriors don't rally to torch this post? In years past, anything said even vaguely negative or even implied about Walsh would've been met with a massive rallying of the troops.

                          I'm not sold on Jim O'Brien as coach. I don't like his philosophy when I see it in action regardless of the words he uses. It is simply not the approach I want to see or ultimately believe in for long-term and meaningful (read: playoff winning basketball) success.

                          But he's kept himself on top throughout the losing and even found himself recently doing a lot more winning. Either he has a good rapport with the team, or we have professional, team players... or both.

                          I think he gets maximum effort, but I don't think he always puts them into position to succeed and that ultimately will be his undoing.

                          If we use him as the interim piece and a bridge to the next coach and phase of the team then I suppose it's all good. My worry is that he'll accomplish just enough to give us fool's gold and earn a new contract which will really paint us into a bad financial picture as well as see the professionalism of the team not be enough to maintain that good rapport thru too much losing.
                          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                          ------

                          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                          -John Wooden

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

                            I know this isn't the thread for it, but I feel it needs to be said.

                            I believe O'Brien may be quoted as saying (per his last radio show) that this is not "his system" but merely what he feels is best for the current roster. Considering this isn't what we saw last year, I expect it to look different for the 3rd year in a row next season.

                            Anyone disagreeing with his apparent philosophies is free to do so (obviously). However, don't confuse his greater philosophies with the specific system he has in place right now. It's generally considered the sign of a good coach when said coach adjusts his system for the players he has been given to work with. I think Jim has proven to display that ability, and I think he will do so again next season.

                            I'm not going to sit here and say I think he's as good as the Pacers will ever get as a coach, but I am saying there are reasons to believe he's at a high enough level to warrant keeping around for more than the immediate future.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Odd thoughts in tough economic times

                              As to the point of Granger, Dunleavy, and Murphy not fitting together: I certainly agree when we're talking a lineup where Mike is the SF, Danny the PF, and Troy the C. I generally agree when you shift that to SG-SF-PF, but I think Danny and Troy can work fairly well as SF/PF.

                              I also believe Peck needs to provide a lot more evidence to support the idea that Donnie Walsh is (one of) the primary reason(s) for the Pacers losing money so many seasons.

                              If Walsh hasn't spent it on the players many feel didn't deserve it, it's quite likely he would have spent it on at lease some player or another, so I think the point it largely moot when the argument is about him affecting the financial issues of the team. Whether the players he gave the money to or not were most worthy of it over others is irrelevant when that's the question.

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 template Next
                              Working...
                              X