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Thread: What is Troy Murphy's value?

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I would prefer that this thread not degenerate into a discussion about his rebounding numbers - I think that as a board we have to agree to disagree on that one.

    However, I am curious as to what you guys make of Troy's value. I think that this season has done wonders for Troy's value but I don't know whether he's "earning his contract" or whether we could ever expect to trade him, especially in this economy. However, Troy has averaged, in February and March, 19pts and 13rebs with 50+FG% 45+3PT% 85+FT%. For comparison's sake, Dirk averages 25 and 8 with significantly worse percentages. Those kind of numbers can't go unnoticed, right? At the same time, he's been steadily improving on the court, making his presence felt beyond his numbers.

    I suspect that we'll keep him until the summer before he expires and then try to trade him to a team that can use the financial help and PF-help like we did with Austin Croshere.

    Do you guys see any benefit to keeping him longer or less time than that? Does anyone see any role for Troy on this team other than the one he already has (stopgap starting PF)? Any general thoughts?

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I see the benefit to keep him only if he continues to produce well. He may have been the sleeper in that trade looking at it now. (Of course that is what we said about Diogu, and look where he is.) It's better late than never.

    Troy is a class-act for this team. He is producing, and he has a likeable character. He is great with the fans, and a little odd at times. He just doesn't seem like the normal basketball player of these days. Troy likes chic-flicks, romance novels, tanning, facials, and whatever other things twenty-something women love.

    Personally, Troy's value has always been high for me. He has always played hard when he is on the floor, and hardly misses a game due to injury. I know he is flu-prone early in the winter, but people get sick.
    Last edited by duke dynamite; 03-04-2009 at 02:56 PM.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Yes, if he continues to perform at this level ( even with the eventual return of Granger ), then he is FINALLY playing up to contract.

    As to whether he could be traded, I think that his #s are a product of the System that he is put into. IMHO, he would fit in a system where the team has a dominant Center that can control the paint so that he is free to roam the perimeter. He would work out fine IMHO with the Magic with Howard kicking it out to everyone in the perimeter. We don't have a dominant Center....but our Center primarily roams near the paint and JO'Bs system allows for Murphy to wander outside the paint.
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I've taken alot of that as him goofing, like wanting to become a spray tanner person, I think it was.

    Troy is perfect....in the right situation. He needs to have defensive minded guys around him to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses. He's a handful though. I loved last night when he pumped faked TWO defenders in the air from 3 point land. Notice how basically with Marquis/BRush and Roy/Foster playing on either side of Troy how well he plays. Also, add in that this year Jack and TJ can mostly keep guys in front of them, it really allows Troy to be his best, imho.

    I think if Troy is the 3rd scorer on the team and can be coupled with a low post presence at Center then he is great to have a PF.

    He can control the boards defensively at that position, which is perfect.

    The weak spot is other teams being able to guard him with a much smaller player at times. Troy's actually gotten better at that THIS SEASON. I made a long post how when Dun and Troy are in there together you can small ball the Pacers to death w/o them making you pay by posting guys up. They haven't been in there together, so it's not a double dose of that and it makes it much less of a liability.

    I think Troy has to stay slim, no more bulking up, I think that was a huge part of his problems last year and I basically blame Bird for telling him to do it.

    Troy's better 1:1 defensively than many give him credit for, no he's not Kevin Garnett, but he's much improved. He's not versatile in that he can guard big centers or quick small forwards, not a knock, he's just not flexible defensively, but I'd say he can guard his counterpart sans Atwain Jamison and the like.

    Lastly, in order to be most effective he has to attack offensively. He's not going to be Dale Davis that picks up garbage buckets and alters a ton of shots while not getting any looks through the offense. It's okay though, but that just has to come from somewhere else. The thing I mostly worry about is when Danny is back and if Dunleavy was in there-the opportunities for Troy to do what he does best are limited.

    It's not that Troy can't be a role player, he just won't be as effective when he's not playing the role he's built to play.

    I guess what I'm saying is Troy is better used and more effective when he's attacking offensively and has guys around him who are above average defenders. So Troy's future with the Pacers and in the league will be based on fit, imho. If he stays or gets in the perfect situation, he'll be a very very good player and be seen as one of the top player at his position even. If is put in a situation that isn't geared toward his ability/skills he could flounder, imho.

    This years he's been exceptional, really been one of my favorites this last couple of months.

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    Boom Baby'er ABADays's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I think Troy has had a terrific year. If it's being asked what his value is for trade purposes I'm not sure I agree he should be traded. Who do you think we could get that has produced the number of double doubles this guy has. I think he has far more value WITH the Pacers than others seem to think.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I think Murphy is more of a "don't know what you've got 'til he's gone" guy.

    His contract is what it is. The thing is, he's (IMHO) doing everything he can for the team. It's not his fault his contract is what it is.

    I'd much rather have Murphy than Foster.

    I bet there's interest in Murphy this summer, even with his contract. I think he came here with a stigma that has allowed perception to become reality regardless of what he does on the court.

    The question is whether the Pacers can utilize that interest to improve the team. Trading Murphy just to somehow help the Simons' wallets is not going to help the team if that is the only benefit.
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I personally think Murphy is one of the most underrated players in the NBA.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I hope we trade him only because I'd rather have a guy with worse numbers but who plays good or very good defense in the paint (and can score there, too) than what Troy brings. That's not a criticism of Troy, but rather my personal preference.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    However, with that said, let me ask this: Is Troy Murphy the power forward Peja Stojakovic? I mean in terms of shooting aren't they pretty similar, and don't they both fill the need/want of most teams in having a deadly shooter in your starting 5?

    Sure, it's unconventional because he starts at the 4, but when he's out there, doesn't he achieve something (somewhat) similar?

    I'm not sure who I'd rather have any one given game, honestly. Sure, who the teammates are would play a large role, but in comparing them head to head, who would you rather have?

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Well, I'd prefer we draft a guy who is a physical presence in the paint and keep Troy around while the new guy develops.

    I wouldn't mind keeping Troy after this contract at a reduced price for a reduced role.

    For too long, there was a misperception that because he was "overpaid" that he didn't belong in the league. Not true. He can contribute.

    His style just doesn't match what I think you need from a starting PF (or C.) Now, as a first big off the bench, he'd make an excellent change-of-pace player.
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Murphy would be perfect with a athletic back to the basket type of Center. If we could pair him with a player of that calibur you will see him at his best. I see hibbert being that player but not for another 2 or 3 years. Hopefully by that time Murph will not be past his prime.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    One thing I thought was funny last night was one of the Kings' announcers saying, "Murphy does a lot of things that help your team win ball games." This caused me to think to myself, "Why hasn't Murphy ever played on a winning team?"

    I don't blame him for this. He's played for two organizations in his career: a terrible one and one that's in the midst of rebuilding.

    Murphy is what he is. He's a very skilled offensive player and a pretty good rebounder. He's got a fair amount of toughness, and he busts his butt every game, even on defense though he knows he's overmatched athletically nearly every night.

    Right now, with Danny and Dunleavy out, he fits our needs at the PF position perfectly. When we're at full strength, Troy is less valuable to us because too many of his offensive skills are duplicated and his chances to use his talents are significantly reduced.
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I like Murph, and he's a great fantasy player. However, I think you have to discount numbers anytime you're on a sub .500 team and ask whether or not they are good players to win, not just put up stats.

    I mean, Garnett COULD put up better numbers than he does, but it comes down to doing what makes the team win.

    While I like his stat lines game after game, the wins still haven't come, and while I am not blaming all losses on Murph, it just makes it easier to pick on the flaws he has--and say "That is what we are missing to win."

    Overall, we seem to know what we are getting out of Murphy, and to me, that means you can build around him to support him, or trade him for what you need. Therefore, he's a valuable piece--moneywise and teamwise.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Quote Originally Posted by justinDOHMAN View Post
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    Murphy would be perfect with a athletic back to the basket type of Center. If we could pair him with a player of that calibur you will see him at his best. I see hibbert being that player but not for another 2 or 3 years. Hopefully by that time Murph will not be past his prime.
    I agree with this, but only when the ball is in the Pacers' possession. Defensively, it's still a problem, but if Hibbert can become a defensive force (not a safe assumption right now) I suppose it could pass.

    After all, I think a big mistake I and others make often is to confuse the ideal with the real in terms of what a "finished product" team will look like. It's not like eventually you get a team with 5 starting players who are all two-way players that can rebound and/or do some other third/fourth thing pretty well. You almost always have guys with big flaws in their games. So maybe it could work with he and Roy.

    But you'd definitely need the back court to improve.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I think you have to take salary into account when looking at value.

    This year Murphy makes just over $10 million. He's the 54th highest-paid player in the NBA. Steve Francis, Ben Wallace, Wally Sczerbiak, Larry Hughes, and Erick Dampier all make more money than Troy.

    Really, Troy's probably the 3rd or 4th best player on an average NBA team. That means he should be somewhere between the 61st and 120th highest paid player in the league. That means he should make somewhere between 6.5 and 9.9 million. Right now he's being paid like he's the 2nd best player on a bad team. In reality he's probably the 3rd best player on a below average team. This means he should be paid around $8 million.
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    So he's overpaid by two million? I won't cry too much if we won't be able to sign a Maceo Baston type player because of that. I realize that's still quite a bit especially in this climate, but there are far worse deals considering that another year just got knocked off too.
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Troy is a PF playing like a bigger SF. He plays horrible defense but is a rebounding machine. It will be hard to rid of him because of his contract if rumors come up for him (unless all the big name FA's pick up their options for the 2010-2011 season, then Dunleavy, Murphy and even Tinsley become the hottest names on the trade market). He's a great athlete, but he provides no defense against the opposing team's PF (i.e. Amare Stoudemire).

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    I believe that is fairly good assesment of Murphy. The Pacers need a little more defensive help in the front court primarily to help maximize Murphy. I think I have fairly clearly stated
    my preferences in the draft but I would like to add Young from Pittsburgh as someone to
    keep and eye on. I especially like the idea of Blair on the Pacers. That would put alot of
    pressure on the other teams interior thus maximizing Murphy's skills.
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    He'd be really good teamed with Dwight Howard. His one-on-one defense is poor, his team defense is pretty good. He has really good hands which is one reason why he gets so many rebounds. I cannot figure out though if he is as good a rebounder as his numbers indicate. He gets a lot of them - but then JO always did too and I never thought he was a good rebounder.

    I'm not making any sense - I know

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Right now for the system and coach, Murphy is the right fit. He's not my ideal type of PF, but in this system he thrives. He's shooting well, and rebounding as well as any PF in the league. He fits this system. He has 2 more seasons on his contract, and after next season he'll be an expiring with O'Brien gone. That is the time to try moving him. The Pacers need to acquire a more traditional PF in a trade or draft one for the eventual time when Murphy leaves. JMOAA

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    For the record, Troy is certified to spray tan.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    For the record, Troy is certified to spray tan.
    Well that changes everything!
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2minutes twowa View Post
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    Well that changes everything!
    I'm not sure I follow you...lol

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    I think Troy has to stay slim, no more bulking up, I think that was a huge part of his problems last year and I basically blame Bird for telling him to do it.
    My understanding was that he had actually dropped a lot of weight in GS for Nellie, but never felt right. He wasn't "bulking up", per se, but just getting back to what he felt his normal playing weight was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed
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    Troy's better 1:1 defensively than many give him credit for, no he's not Kevin Garnett, but he's much improved. He's not versatile in that he can guard big centers or quick small forwards, not a knock, he's just not flexible defensively, but I'd say he can guard his counterpart sans Atwain Jamison and the like.

    Lastly, in order to be most effective he has to attack offensively. He's not going to be Dale Davis that picks up garbage buckets and alters a ton of shots while not getting any looks through the offense. It's okay though, but that just has to come from somewhere else. The thing I mostly worry about is when Danny is back and if Dunleavy was in there-the opportunities for Troy to do what he does best are limited.

    It's not that Troy can't be a role player, he just won't be as effective when he's not playing the role he's built to play.

    I guess what I'm saying is Troy is better used and more effective when he's attacking offensively and has guys around him who are above average defenders. So Troy's future with the Pacers and in the league will be based on fit, imho. If he stays or gets in the perfect situation, he'll be a very very good player and be seen as one of the top player at his position even. If is put in a situation that isn't geared toward his ability/skills he could flounder, imho.

    This years he's been exceptional, really been one of my favorites this last couple of months.
    I do think he is a guy who plays better with a bigger role.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Well, I'd prefer we draft a guy who is a physical presence in the paint and keep Troy around while the new guy develops.

    I wouldn't mind keeping Troy after this contract at a reduced price for a reduced role.

    For too long, there was a misperception that because he was "overpaid" that he didn't belong in the league. Not true. He can contribute.

    His style just doesn't match what I think you need from a starting PF (or C.) Now, as a first big off the bench, he'd make an excellent change-of-pace player.
    There was a thread last year where Colin Cowherd claimed JO was the "most overrated" player in the last 15 years. Somebody made the comment that overpaid=overrated. I used Murph, and (at the time) Dunleavy as guys who were overpaid, but underrated.

    I had equated Murph to Foster in terms of general contribution, though Murph's level play is much higher than anything we've ever seen from Foster.

    I still believe he's overpaid, but we've had worse contracts. There really no question he's playing very, very good basketball right now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He'd be really good teamed with Dwight Howard. His one-on-one defense is poor, his team defense is pretty good. He has really good hands which is one reason why he gets so many rebounds. I cannot figure out though if he is as good a rebounder as his numbers indicate. He gets a lot of them - but then JO always did too and I never thought he was a good rebounder.

    I'm not making any sense - I know
    He's a good rebounder.

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    Default Re: What is Troy Murphy's value?

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    I suspect that we'll keep him until the summer before he expires and then try to trade him to a team that can use the financial help and PF-help like we did with Austin Croshere.

    Do you guys see any benefit to keeping him longer or less time than that? Does anyone see any role for Troy on this team other than the one he already has (stopgap starting PF)? Any general thoughts?
    Murphy has had a very nice stretch here and deserves nothing but praise for it, but in the long run, that doesn't change the fact that PF is the position the Pacers need to upgrade the most (assuming Hibbert pans out into a competent starter).

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