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The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

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  • Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

    Well I'm sure this thread is going to stir up some opinions! This has been on my mind for awhile, and I'm wondering if anyone else out there feels the same way. Perhaps I should've waited until I'm more known around here to post an opinion piece, oh well, dish out the heat if you want I won't take it personal!

    Fans Bear Responsibility for Pacers Current Problems


    With the draft deadline looming and the Pacers looking like they will stand pat, this seems like a good time to point out something that really needs to be said. And it’s not going to make anyone happy. No doubt, the team has a responsibility to our community. When the team knowingly hires players and personnel that the fans will be ashamed of, and continues to employ these miscreants for the sake of winning, then we very well should speak with our wallets, as fans have done for the past five years.

    But here’s what most of us have overlooked: the fans have a responsibility as well. When Manning and the rest of the current Colts have moved on, and the team once again endures a couple of tough years while they make an honest and dedicated effort to rebuild, we as fans have a responsibility to honor the wonderful years the team gave us, and the great things they did for our community, and stick with them as true, die-hard fans.

    We honor a team by staying true through the bad times, because we understand that the owners are trying with good faith to rebuild a team that we can one day be proud of. And I say that the fans of this city have done wrong by the Pacers in the last two years. It is their attitudes and demands that have put the team in a position that will make it very difficult for them to build a contending team until 2010 or later.

    The pacers management has been faithfully working to clean house for the past two years. The only piece left from the dark days is a player who has effectively been banished from the team, and is with the Pacers now only as a financial albatross The Pacers bought this lead weight when they inked a contract with a guy who was a behavioral risk. But we, the fans, secured that weight with a 14 million dollar padlock by essentially demanding that Tinsley disappear from the team before the fans would return. Now, a year after his final game to date, he has sat at home in contract-limbo, unable to be cut loose from his contract and becoming with time less and less of an asset that might be traded. Today he is virtually incapable of being traded, and the chunk of salary cap room he takes up means we are unable to construct a contending team until after 2011.

    My feeling is that if efforts to trade Jamaal were allowed to play out, and the man was not banished from the team in order to placate the fans, then he would still have decent trade value. But that wasn't an option and now the decision to send him into exile is costing the team millions in payroll.

    Conversations I have with the average person regarding the Pacers, these days, brings the same responses I heard two, three, four years ago. They’re thugs. I won’t let my kids watch them. Until the team gets rid of all the bad apples, I don’t care about them. And more recently: The team is a joke. They’re no good. Bird should be fired for putting together this lousy team. Guess what? The bad apples are gone. All gone. We have a team we should be proud of, players with great heart, and the will to win. Meanwhile attendance has only marginally improved from where it was two years ago, and by and large the negative attitudes persist. We’ve spoken with our attendance, effectively condemned a good and honest effort by the Pacers, and therefore forced the team to spend the next two years in salary-cap purgatory. So when I hear people on the street badmouth the Pacers now for being uncompetitive, I’m sorely tempted to remind them that their failures, hand in hand with the Hoosier values we expect them to possess, are a reflection on us fans as well.

    -- ToasterBusVIP

  • #2
    Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

    It's a two way street. You can't expect fans to commit their hearts and wallets to a team that they aren't sure the owner/management is willing to do the same.

    The Pacers continued to pile bad decisions on top of bad decisions and instead of putting their effort into correcting those mistakes, they looked to come up with a marketing slogan, PR spin, and sticking their heads into the sand instead of meeting the challenges head on.

    I do think to some degree the public trusted them... for a while. But that trust wasn't endless and that is why they find themselves in the position they are now.

    They ignored reality and ignored the fans. Worse, they didn't just ignore fans, they looked down on them when the fans were the ones right all along.
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

      What prompted me to write this commentary was my feeling that public opinion, and public awareness of Management's current efforts, is lagging very far behind. You see this when you talk to some of the general population around here, that opinion is still stuck on 'they need to clean up their act first'.

      At what point, then, does a lack of awareness about the team's changes and efforts start to reflect poorly on the fan base? Are people still not convinced the team has committed themselves to integrity? Or are they not aware of what the Pacers are now because they simply aren't bothering to pay attention? When I hear comments like "they should cut all the troublemakers. Fire them all and start over" that tells me that this person doesn't understand that is not reality in the NBA. Unwanted players, in most markets especially ours, must be traded or allowed to expire. Public sentiment seems to be strongly that TPTB didn't admit they needed to change things until this year, when some of us understand that they have been, piece by piece, offloading the troublemakers in a way that would allow us some hope for the future. I think attendance last year finally drove TPTB to mortgage the P's short team future in order to placate the fans, when they banished Tinsley.

      To be sure there will be leaders, fans who are the first to come back and their praises will start to drown out the negativity still lingering over the casual watercooler-conversation one hears about our team. Are we maybe not past the point where we should have begun rewarding what has been an honest effort to fix things, and has been IMHO since the GSW trade?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

        Well, the problem (as I see it) is how far they allowed things to go down the toilet before finally admitting there was a real problem. They allowed a large portion of the fanbase to first become polarized and then finally to become apathetic.

        Many sensed they were being taken for a ride, or sensed they cared more than the organization cared about the team.

        IMHO Pacer marketing has sucked for quite some time. Even now it could stand some improvement. I don't think it's been merely, bad... I think it's flat out sucked. Then at the end of the day they went into a PR spin type of marketing that had no legs and quickly was derailed.

        People aren't stupid. You might get over a speed bump with that type of thing but you aren't going to mask and get over the problems as large as the Pacers suffered with that type of marketing.

        Now you have a potential market that is saying "Show me, don't tell me". They won't be fooled and they won't be patient.... and they're past being tolerate.

        Meanwhile, there are real positives happening but some of those positives are being lost by an Indiana team playing horrid defense. Most basketball purists aren't going to be impressed with that. And that is assuming these people can even be exposed to the team. Every game is buried on cable or satellite. You actually have to search for the game on Directv because it's on a channel that is dark 90% of the time unless a Pacer game is playing. You're not going to get many casual fans just scanning channels that way.

        Leaving broadcast TV entirely does have disadvantages but it is what it is. I'm not sure a local broadcast channel would even be interested in any games right now.

        Actually, saying "every" was the wrong word because several games aren't televised at all locally.

        Last I checked the radio network had several holes in coverage as well.

        And Pacer marketing still doesn't expand very far outside of I465.

        So you're asking fans to care again when the last time they looked, it didn't appear that TPTB cared all that much themselves. ...And past marketing efforts turned into little more than lies thanks to some of the characters on this teams' payroll. ..So it isn't like these people are going to immediately believe just any slogan appearing on a billboard.

        This is going to be a long process to win fans back.

        The banishment of Tinsley is another issue... but I don't feel it's the handling of Tinsley NOW that is the problem... it's the handling of Tinsley in the past that was the problem. The Tinsley situation was allowed to fester until this was the only logical recourse for the team and is the corner it painted them into. It's just one more example of bad management and ignoring the reality of what was happening with the team and the team's image.

        It really is:
        Fool me once, shame on you... Fool me twice, shame on me.

        That doesn't mean the Pacers have to quit marketing, but it has to be a legitimate effort and not PR spin. And they need to expand their horizons while they are at it (IMO).
        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

        ------

        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

        -John Wooden

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

          Hopefully fans and management will be able to agree with each other soon
          otherwise it will be buh-bye, and neither group will have to worry about each other.
          Personally I believe the management is trying to put a good team together, one fans
          can be pround of. I have enjoyed watching this team this year despite the record, which
          with the loss of Granger may not win another game. For the people out there still calling
          the Pacers a bunch of thugs, they are either envious or racially motivated. I can see no
          other reason for them to continue to hold that view. Maybe they have no clue who is
          on the Pacers.
          {o,o}
          |)__)
          -"-"-

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

            As much as people talk about the importance of morals and ethics- what they really care about is winning. Anyone who won't admit to that is a hypocrite. I don't think fans should be content with a winning team made of criminals, but when a fan pays for his ticket he wants to be a part of something special- A PO push/ An amazing play.... He doesn't want to pay to watch his team lose- that's the bottom line. I'm not saying that's the way it should be, on the contrary- for example in English football every game is a sell out. the football tradition is rooted so deeply into the English society that even when a team has nothing to play for and is losing badly, you still won't find an empty seat in the stadium. Fans in the US are different, I don't know why.

            In any case the fans in Indy have spoken
            1. "Bird, get rid of the thugs"- check.
            2. "Bird, Make this team a winning team again". (only then will we be back filling those seats)

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

              I do not think the Pacers dealing Step Jackson & Al Harrington for Murphy and Dunleavy was that terrible of a deal. We were not going to win a championship or even a playoff series with Al Harrington. He is a "me" first not a "team" first player. Look what he did in Golden State this year.

              Step Jackson is a very good player, but the NBA is a business.

              Jermaine O'neal is not a thug.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

                Originally posted by ToasterBusVIP View Post
                Well I'm sure this thread is going to stir up some opinions! This has been on my mind for awhile, and I'm wondering if anyone else out there feels the same way. Perhaps I should've waited until I'm more known around here to post an opinion piece, oh well, dish out the heat if you want I won't take it personal!

                Fans Bear Responsibility for Pacers Current Problems


                With the draft deadline looming and the Pacers looking like they will stand pat, this seems like a good time to point out something that really needs to be said. And it’s not going to make anyone happy. No doubt, the team has a responsibility to our community. When the team knowingly hires players and personnel that the fans will be ashamed of, and continues to employ these miscreants for the sake of winning, then we very well should speak with our wallets, as fans have done for the past five years.

                But here’s what most of us have overlooked: the fans have a responsibility as well. When Manning and the rest of the current Colts have moved on, and the team once again endures a couple of tough years while they make an honest and dedicated effort to rebuild, we as fans have a responsibility to honor the wonderful years the team gave us, and the great things they did for our community, and stick with them as true, die-hard fans.

                We honor a team by staying true through the bad times, because we understand that the owners are trying with good faith to rebuild a team that we can one day be proud of. And I say that the fans of this city have done wrong by the Pacers in the last two years. It is their attitudes and demands that have put the team in a position that will make it very difficult for them to build a contending team until 2010 or later.

                The pacers management has been faithfully working to clean house for the past two years. The only piece left from the dark days is a player who has effectively been banished from the team, and is with the Pacers now only as a financial albatross The Pacers bought this lead weight when they inked a contract with a guy who was a behavioral risk. But we, the fans, secured that weight with a 14 million dollar padlock by essentially demanding that Tinsley disappear from the team before the fans would return. Now, a year after his final game to date, he has sat at home in contract-limbo, unable to be cut loose from his contract and becoming with time less and less of an asset that might be traded. Today he is virtually incapable of being traded, and the chunk of salary cap room he takes up means we are unable to construct a contending team until after 2011.

                My feeling is that if efforts to trade Jamaal were allowed to play out, and the man was not banished from the team in order to placate the fans, then he would still have decent trade value. But that wasn't an option and now the decision to send him into exile is costing the team millions in payroll.

                Conversations I have with the average person regarding the Pacers, these days, brings the same responses I heard two, three, four years ago. They’re thugs. I won’t let my kids watch them. Until the team gets rid of all the bad apples, I don’t care about them. And more recently: The team is a joke. They’re no good. Bird should be fired for putting together this lousy team. Guess what? The bad apples are gone. All gone. We have a team we should be proud of, players with great heart, and the will to win. Meanwhile attendance has only marginally improved from where it was two years ago, and by and large the negative attitudes persist. We’ve spoken with our attendance, effectively condemned a good and honest effort by the Pacers, and therefore forced the team to spend the next two years in salary-cap purgatory. So when I hear people on the street badmouth the Pacers now for being uncompetitive, I’m sorely tempted to remind them that their failures, hand in hand with the Hoosier values we expect them to possess, are a reflection on us fans as well.

                -- ToasterBusVIP
                On the surface a well thought out post, however you have missed a huge piece of the equation, the economy. Paying for tickets and going to a Pacer game somehow is not a high priority with average fans at the present time. Blaming fans for the Pacer's attendance problems is not cool in my books.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

                  Originally posted by DgR View Post
                  In any case the fans in Indy have spoken
                  1. "Bird, get rid of the thugs"- check.
                  2. "Bird, Make this team a winning team again". (only then will we be back filling those seats)
                  Correct.

                  Step 1 is complete. If the original premise is correct - that casual fans in Indy don't realize/ acknowledge that Step 1 is complete then there is a marketing/ PR/ advertising breakdown somewhere.

                  Step 2 is clearly a work in progress at best, and is not yet being realized. Some of us think that the situation for Step #1 was sooooo bad that Step #2 will take several years, while others insist that a token playoff experience this year proves that #2 is complete. Management has not clearly articulated thier vision for Step #2 yet, and its obvious that the fans on PD (and probably in other forums, real or virtual) disagree on the best course of action as well.

                  Until a vision for #2 is clearly articulated and can be demonstrated to be in progress, its a bit much to expect anything less than the hardcore fans to pay attention (and it is hard for us hardcore fans to even pay attention these days.)
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

                    Reputation doesn't bounce back that fast. They need the economy to bouce back, and they need a deep playoff run to get all the way back.

                    And seriously, people are cutting back on discretionary spending. You might as well rail on people for not supporting restaurants.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

                      We talk about this a lot in my classes, not the Pacers, but the concept that it takes very little to make a bad opinion, and a lot to make a good opinion of someone/something.

                      Our attendance is up, the economy sucks. If this was any normal year, I think attendance would be up a lot higher than it currently is. Yet people view supporting the Pacers as taking a chance, due to the events of recent years, and when money is tight, they may not be as willing to attend games. I actually wonder a lot if our TV ratings have gone up.

                      A lot of people I talk to still love this team, and either they don't have the money to support them, or they're unaware that it's safe to come out of hiding.

                      I know the people on this board support this team, live and die with them, and have emotional bonds to the Pacers, so did a lot of our beloved city. I've always felt that a team represents its city. We haven't changed since the days of tribalism and gladiator games, we just use professional sports franchises instead of armies. People were embarrassed of the men who represented us and they rejected them.

                      Of all Indiana teams, no team is a better representation of our city and our state than the Pacers. They bear our state's name, they play our sport, and they bear our state's colors. When you step inside that Fieldhouse, you are inside of the greatest cathedral ever built to a state religion. This team bleeds Indiana.

                      We need to support them, and we need to let others know that they need to come back out of the woodwork. I know they have a marketing dept. and everything needed to promote themselves, but studies show that my generation (the millennials) doesn't respond to marketing, we respond to word of mouth. That's why I've been telling people all season long to come back to the Fieldhouse, and it's worked a decent amount. I'm not saying I'm awesome for doing this, I'm just saying all of us need to be doing this more.

                      I'm sorry if this for some reason is off base, or doesn't fit, I felt this would work in this thread.

                      /rant.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

                        Originally posted by Peter_sixtyftsixin View Post
                        Of all Indiana teams, no team is a better representation of our city and our state than the Pacers. They bear our state's name, they play our sport, and they bear our state's colors. When you step inside that Fieldhouse, you are inside of the greatest cathedral ever built to a state religion. This team bleeds Indiana. /rant.
                        I like this. Im gonna' put this in my Sig. You just made my day.
                        "I keep wondering the same thing. Last week they had the 4th worst record in the league, had an 11.9 percent chance of winning the lottery and were in line to land a franchise type player like Derrick Favors or DeMarcus Cousins. This week? They have a 1.7 percent chance of winning the lottery, have the 8th worst record and are in line to draft Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. Way to go Jim O'Brien. Rest Danny Granger the rest of the season (if it isn't too late) and give Josh McRoberts lots of minutes. That ought to do it." - Chad Ford on winning meaningless games

                        Way to go Jim, you may have just put our franchise back another 4+ years.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

                          Originally posted by Country Boy View Post
                          On the surface a well thought out post, however you have missed a huge piece of the equation, the economy. Paying for tickets and going to a Pacer game somehow is not a high priority with average fans at the present time. Blaming fans for the Pacer's attendance problems is not cool in my books.
                          Let's not forget Pacers fans have never been known to fill the arena. Tickets were widely accessible for the 2003-04 playoff run after the 61 win season. They were available during Reggie's last run.

                          Like several people said, the blame goes both ways.

                          I think it's funny how everyone points to the brawl even though fans were supportive. The real issues were post-brawl and then everyone went back in time and said the brawl was what broke them.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

                            Nobody owes the Pacers anything. All the steps discussed here seem fine, but ultimately the fans can do what they want. I like the Pacers, but that doesn't mean other people have to go watch them.

                            Personally I believe the next time the Pacers are in the playoffs Indy will rally around them. There is a lot to like on this team. Making the playoffs isn't that difficult, but I think that will be the minimum level of winning necessary to win back a good fan base.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Commentary: Fans Bear Responsibility

                              The Colts becoming a legit Super Bowl contender during the same time period as the Pacers downfall certainly doesn't help either. And the face of the franchise retiring too. Although Granger has a chance to at least partially fill that void.

                              You can argue some of the fan base is "fairweather" (not saying I agree or disagree here) but blaming the fans for anything related to the downfall of the franchise is a bit silly IMO. It has just been a confluence of bad luck, bad karma and bad management. As others have stated, the way to bring people back is to win.

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