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Thread: I like competitive Danny...a lot

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default I like competitive Danny...a lot

    This was originally going in the Sixers thread but it evolved. Did we win that Sixers game? The post-game thread certainly doesn't reflect that. Did Danny punch someone in the face? Because the post-game thread certainly reflects that.

    Honestly, it's becoming borderline unbearable to me how we treat Danny. The man is playing hurt, he's leading the team, he is the only Pacer save TJ and Obie that seems to care about winning and losing, and we're complaining.

    Obviously he sees the writing on the wall - his teammates aren't going to stay healthy/play through pain and just don't care as much as he does about the team's overall success. And as a result, we are slowly playing ourselves out of playoff contention. You wouldn't be getting frustrated?

    What bothers me even more is that if Danny wasn't getting bothered by this, we'd still be complaining. Then we'd be complaining about a lack of fire. How do I know? Because that's what happened last year on this board. It seems Danny flipped a switch this year. He's stepped his game, mentally, emotionally, and physically. That's as much as any of us could have asked of him.

    We have one of the top players in the league on our team. And he hates losing to boot! Even better, he feels connected to this franchise to the point that he can't take losing. Toronto has a guy like Chris Bosh who hates losing so much that he is going to leave Toronto in two years to win more/demand a trade before that. Unfortunately, we seemed to have stumbled upon a Reggie Miller type determined to make this franchise a winner.

    My god, what is up with us? Are we the most cynical fanbase there is at this point? Did the brawl really screw us that badly? Guys, let's enjoy our star player. It's ok. Yes, he's a star and yes, he's going to act like it. Thank God. Why? Because if he doesn't stand up for his team and his franchise, nobody else will. And I think people will respect him more, not less, for this.

    And I'm sure Danny knows of his defensive short-comings as well. I just feel like in this system, a player has to decide where to focus their energy. Danny (or Obie) has chosen offense for him, I guess. Considering our lack of go-to scorers, I'm ok with that. The problem I have is that Obie basically forces our guys to make that choice.

    I don't mean this against a particular poster or group of poster. It's just my own two cents about this situation. I was fortunate enough to see the Pacers in person a couple of weeks ago for the first time in a year or so and my perception of Danny changed. In person, he is such a warrior. He did not look even 80% healthy but he stepped up and took/hit the big shots (Caron just made one more) when the rest of team behaved like the ball was a hot potato. More impressively for me, his body reacted with every positive and negative part of the game. At points, it was like watching Jordan out there, staring down Jack for letting Butler abuse him, high-fiving Jack for hitting a three in the corner, etc. And Danny is not JO. When crunch time came, he took - and hit - the big shots and he guarded Caron. He blamed himself for the failure to cover Caron on that last shot much more than he did anybody else that night. You win championships with guys like this (Danny) as your number one or number two guys.

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    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I love Danny, I just wish he would have handled last night differently. I'd rather he do what my example in the other thread on how Lebron handled it.

    I think we can still make observations about certain aspects of his game or him, but still really be thankful for him. That Boston tooth crushing incident is one of the top 3 toughest things I have seen a player do in my life.

    Danny still needs better handles (especialy in traffic and going left), he could still elevate his defensive game, consistently. I mean DG has room for growth, which is exciting.

    I love his fire to win, but there is no reason posters can't say that he shouldn't shake his head in disgust when Roy flops around like an unathletic fish sometimes. Now there is a rip on probably my two favorite current Pacers.

    Lastly, I am a fan of the uniform, I have to admit. It's been hard in recent history, but it's true. I've been a fan of the team, not just it's players. Any criticizm is said with the hope it brings them to the promise land someday.

    Danny's frustration is understandable. They were swallowing their whistles last night. Also, the team is 11 games under .500. You are right, I'd be pissed if he wasn't pissed. However, I'd rather he learn how to channel it better. If I was Salvatore (I think it was) I would have T'd up Danny in the first half when he overeacted, imo.
    Last edited by Speed; 02-18-2009 at 01:22 PM.

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    Member BPump33's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I love everything Danny brings to the court. I am in the camp that wouldn't trade Danny for anyone else in the league. Agreed, he still has room to grow and that is a good thing.

    To be fair and honest, yes the brawl and some of our past years have made me a bit weary of certain things. I love the Pacers and will defend them to anyone, but I can't tolerate players whining to the officials like Jack and JO (the main two that stick out to me) used to do. I don't think Danny is ANYWHERE near that level, I just don't want it to get there. That is my ONLY concern, and frankly I'm sure I'm premature in showing concern.

    Like I said in the post-game thread I love that Danny stood up to Andre Miller. I just watched the clip a minute ago and in my opinion it looked a lot worse in person. In person it looked as if Danny sprinted over to him, but watching the clip I didn't think it looked as bad. I want Danny to let the rest of the league know that coming to Indiana is not going to be a pushover. Danny has become the leader that this team has needed for quite some time now and I think most of us are aware of that and embrace it wholeheartedly.
    Passion. Pride. Patience. Pacers

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    Member trey's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I agree with the OP.

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    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    If this was refereed like college ball in the 70s, then I'd say Danny's behavior is a bit too much.

    Unfortunately, this is the NBA third millennium. It's not so much strict objective following of the rules. There is also a clear tip of the hat by officials to all-stars. Wish it weren't so, hate it, and don't believe in it.

    But it is what it is. That being the case, Danny's behavior is arguably spot on. He is establishing himself and gaining the edge we have lacked of late in the eyes of officials. And I'd like to think Danny only needs to do this for a season of time.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Well said rexnom.

    I think people forget how emotional playing sports can be be... and how that emotion can help or hurt you. I think in Danny's case it helps him. Now I agree that I don't want to see Danny turn into 'Sheed or even JO when it comes to complaining about calls, however I don't see this from Danny. I see a guy who genuinely wants to win and it's not just about his personal stats, but a real will to win.

    How many people LOVED it when Reggie was at the height of his trash-talking, instigator days? I know I did. My favorite playoff series ever is still the one in which Reggie and Spike went at each other, when Reggie did the whole "choke" signal. It shows fire and as long as it's not hurting anyone and it's focused on the team, I think it's great.

    I personally am one of the people who doesn't like the new "calling-it-tight" style of refereeing the games. It annoys me when two guys are jawing at each other, or someone reacts to a cheap-shot and they call a double-tech. Just separate them and keep playing. This is the way it was in the 90's and I'd like to see it be that way again. Sport is emotional, these guys aren't robots.

    I want to see a guy who has fire and intensity, will stand up for his teammates and wants nothing more than to win every game. Along with that, I want to see a guy with good sportsmanship. This is what I've seen from Danny so far.

  7. #7
    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Good grief, quit bein' a buncha pansies. That incident last night was absolutely nothing to get worked up about.

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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Most of the guys that played in the late 80s/early 90s NBA would probably be surprised that people think Danny was being over aggressive.

    “WE NEVER SURRENDER, WE NEVER GIVE UP, WE KEEP ATTACKING”- Frank Vogel
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    Indy's #1 Hockey Fan Peter_sixtyftsixin's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Basically I like Danny b-being aggressive, b-being aggressive! But I don't want him to reach LeBron levels of whining. That's part of the reason I can't stand him, and I would hate to see my favorite player take the same route.

    Beyond that, if he doesn't cost us a game, get suspended, or go into the stands seeking higher ground because he thinks he's drowning in beer, I'm fine.

  10. #10

    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I can't believe there are such rigid protocols about reactions to cheap fouls and complaining to referees.

    I agree with Rexom 100%.

  11. #11
    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I'm thrilled to death with Danny, and I'm very appreciative of his efforts.

    However, that doesn't preclude me from thinking that he over-reacted last night and looked a bit closer to silly than tough.

    I think Danny's made a huge leap in asserting himself on the court. He's grown during this season alone in the ability to come up big in the fourth quarter. He has definitely shown the ability to be a team leader.

    That being said, the incident with Miller wasn't his finest hour, IMO. I don't think there's anything damaging in saying so, either.

    As to the guys from the '80's and 90's, they probably would have wondered what he was getting so puffy about, because it wasn't much of a hit. They probably would have been less than impressed that he was going after a 6'2" point guard.

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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I'm thrilled to death with Danny, and I'm very appreciative of his efforts.

    However, that doesn't preclude me from thinking that he over-reacted last night and looked a bit closer to silly than tough.

    I think Danny's made a huge leap in asserting himself on the court. He's grown during this season alone in the ability to come up big in the fourth quarter. He has definitely shown the ability to be a team leader.

    That being said, the incident with Miller wasn't his finest hour, IMO. I don't think there's anything damaging in saying so, either.

    As to the guys from the '80's and 90's, they probably would have wondered what he was getting so puffy about, because it wasn't much of a hit. They probably would have been less than impressed that he was going after a 6'2" point guard.
    Point is, this is how the NBA has changed. One minor altercation in a game sets off a huge hullabaloo.

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  13. #13
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I'm thrilled to death with Danny, and I'm very appreciative of his efforts.

    However, that doesn't preclude me from thinking that he over-reacted last night and looked a bit closer to silly than tough.

    I think Danny's made a huge leap in asserting himself on the court. He's grown during this season alone in the ability to come up big in the fourth quarter. He has definitely shown the ability to be a team leader.

    That being said, the incident with Miller wasn't his finest hour, IMO. I don't think there's anything damaging in saying so, either.

    As to the guys from the '80's and 90's, they probably would have wondered what he was getting so puffy about, because it wasn't much of a hit. They probably would have been less than impressed that he was going after a 6'2" point guard.
    Very well said. I agree on all accounts.
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I have no problem with what he did last night

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I have no problem with what he did last night
    I can mostly get behind this, but I also don't see much in the way of value in what he did, either.

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    Member Speed's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I'm not worked up at all. I could even buy the 1 season, I need to establish some respect deal. I don't even think anything about him being whiney or anything like it.

    I just think the way to get more respect is to give Miller a little hip as he's driving about a quarter later in the game, instead of running over and... well you saw it.

    I mean things get chippy, it happens. Personally, I laugh at guys, I mean man, it wasn't like he got undercut.

    I wouldn't have even said anything if DG would've gotten up walked toward the bench and walked a little too close to Miller and gave him a little nudge.

    I mean Reggie would have had DG chasing him all around the court with little antogonizing bumps and chicken fighting like a woman he did.

    Mainly, I'd like to see Danny be mentally tougher than that. But it was a momentary lapse, not a big deal. Danny is much tougher than that by almost all accounts.

    I just don't want to see Danny knocked off his game by something pretty minor.

    Again isolated incident.

    Now if he gets undercut tonight, I would advocate that stuff happens. But otherwise, if Gerald Wallace gives him a little shoulder, I'd like to see a little extra nudge in retaliation later in the game.

    Just my opinion, still love him, love what he's doing, love the toughness.
    Last edited by Speed; 02-18-2009 at 02:50 PM.

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    Thank you, Danny. Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I agree 100% I love what Danny did. I'd much rather see him let people know who he is, instead of just walk away like they can do that whenever they want. He's already playing injured, there's no need for anyone to give him a body check like that.

    It also helped us win the game, so hey, I'll take it.

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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by tbabyy924 View Post
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    I agree 100% I love what Danny did. I'd much rather see him let people know who he is, instead of just walk away like they can do that whenever they want. He's already playing injured, there's no need for anyone to give him a body check like that.

    It also helped us win the game, so hey, I'll take it.
    Basketball is a contact sport. What Miller did was a basketball play. Granger overreacted. It is plain and simple.

    If he is so injured that he can't handle contact, he shouldn't play. Send him home.

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    Thank you, Danny. Kuq_e_Zi91's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    Basketball is a contact sport. What Miller did was a basketball play. Granger overreacted. It is plain and simple.

    If he is so injured that he can't handle contact, he shouldn't play. Send him home.
    Maybe we were watching a different play then. What I saw was Danny come down the lane on a fastbreak and Miller lower his shoulder into him and then extend his arm and push him. It's different to watch a play like that on TV and say he overreacted and have that done to you in the heat of the game.

    There's contact, and there's unnecessary contact. Danny stood up for himself and I like it.

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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by tbabyy924 View Post
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    Maybe we were watching a different play then. What I saw was Danny come down the lane on a fastbreak and Miller lower his shoulder into him and then extend his arm and push him. It's different to watch a play like that on TV and say he overreacted and have that done to you in the heat of the game.

    There's contact, and there's unnecessary contact. Danny stood up for himself and I like it.
    What Miller did was entirely within the scope of the game!! The Pacers would be far better served if Danny would take a page out of Miller's book and actually do that to an opposing player on a break instead of just allowing them easy lay-ins all the time.

    He looked like a spoiled little brat.

  21. #21
    Intuition over Integers McKeyFan's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    What Miller did was entirely within the scope of the game!!
    No, it was a flagrant foul.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Member jeffg-body's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    I don't get all of the worry about this competitive fire Danny has. i like it myself. He stood up or himself after an "artest-like basketball play". It is over and done with. At least he cares and gives it all regardless if he is playing injured or not. He is not going to snap and turn into "Ronnie the incredible hulk" and go nuts on everyone and everything around him.

  23. #23

    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    What Miller did was throw his elbows out right into Danny's ribs. He wasn't reaching for the ball, he wasn't doing anything but elbowing Danny. However it LOOKED to you, it apparently hurt, otherwise he wouldn't have been angry.

    Maybe some of you didn't see the elbow out, I don't know. Most basketball players I know are particularly touchy about guys throwing elbows into them. You can really hurt someone doing that, and I would hope he goes after someone every time they do it.

    -- Steve --

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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    No, it was a flagrant foul.
    He was correctly not assessed with a flagrant foul because it wasn't one. So no.

    He stopped a break from resulting in a easy bucket. I wish we had a tough leader who would do that. Once.

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    Pacer Pride, Colts Strong Kid Minneapolis's Avatar
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    Default Re: I like competitive Danny...a lot

    Quote Originally Posted by WetBob View Post
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    What Miller did was entirely within the scope of the game!! The Pacers would be far better served if Danny would take a page out of Miller's book and actually do that to an opposing player on a break instead of just allowing them easy lay-ins all the time.

    He looked like a spoiled little brat.
    My Lord, what a crazy perspective to have. This is basketball, dude, not football. Lowering your shoulder into an oncoming player is a legal move in FOOTBALL... in basketball, initiating hard contact with another player is called a "foul". It's one thing to make a slap at the ball... it's another to completley just lower a shoulder and not make a play for the ball at all. It was an intentional foul. A foul in the least.

    It was uncalled for, a non-basketball play, and frankly it was not one of MILLER's finer moments... Granger was completely justified in his reaction.

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