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Thread: Looking to the Future

  1. #26
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Anybody comment as to whether Earl Clark of Louisville is a Carl Landry type of player?

  2. #27

    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Lorbek will never wear a Pacers uni, and no thanks to Vaden. I'd rather just give a 2nd round pick away than use it on Vaden. In essence, that's what you'd be doing by drafting Vaden. Reminds me of when the Pacers drafted Bailey... wasted pick for the IU fans and the Indiana hometown people.

    And to think I was just saying the other day this will be the 1st year in years I won't have to hear the call to draft an IU player. I should have known better.
    You don't have much of a gauge on the IU fan base if you think they're pushing for the Pacers to draft Vaden. And considering Vaden pissed off Purdue fans so much, that leaves very few Indiana basketball fans cheering for a Bailey-like draft.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    I think we're sufficient at PG between Ford, Jack and Diener. I just wish Jack was at PG. Can we combine all three to form the great three-headed Pacer Knights of Ni PG?
    then, when you have found travis, you must place him beside tj, only slightly higher so you get a two-level effect with an open path running straight to the basket.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by avoidingtheclowns View Post
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    then, when you have found travis, you must place him beside tj, only slightly higher so you get a two-level effect with an open path running straight to the basket.
    yeah, okay, I get your point.

    But I still we need to address PF more than PG right now.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I never said players from IU were trash... you did. Funny how you'd mention Texas Tech.

    What I said was I was looking forward to not having to hear about "lets draft IU player XX" this year... hopefully for a # of years. I also said Vaden would be a wasted 2nd round pick.

    I'm anything but an IU fan, that's putting it mildly since I grew up as one, but I'd never turn an IU or Purdue player down just b/c they came from those institutions of higher learning. I just get fed up hearing about "the Pacers need to draft IU player XX " every year. Just b/c they went to IU doesn't mean they are NBA quality nor should the Pacers draft them. Unfortunately, IU fans seem to think differently.
    you like the texas tech thing eh? i agree with you but i would have taken eric gordon if given the chance. vaden may get his shot off quick, but can he create the space to get that look in the nba?

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    We still need a massive overhaul. The two major problems of this team is [1] our continued search for a consistant starting 5 (It's been ages since we had a real rotation). [2] Overall team chemistry.

    Obviously Granger is the most stable player in the puzzle. I would also label Ford, Rush, and Hibbert as keepers with Jack and Murph looking from the inside out as long as their contracts remain or become manageable.

    [1] The case for a real rotation - today!
    First, let me begin by saying - I know the Pacers are losing money faster than a bag of cheetos in a weight-watchers convention. Obviously making the playoffs earns the Simon's money. "Cha-Ching" - I get it. However, our focus needs to be on developing talented rookies, Brandon Rush and Roy Hibbert. They need experience TODAY so that they can lead us TOMORROW. For some reason, the Pacers refuse to allow this team to die. We have a stubborn notion that we are a "few players away" when in reality we are no where close to real contention; particularly, if we refuse to allow the rookies to get their hands dirty. Therefore, it may not be popular (though it's not like you could hurt attendance anyway) the Pacers need to "cut their loses" and turn to the rookies. Develop a rotation and allow them to bloom.

    [2] Chemistry
    We lack the chemistry necessary to compete. The best way to assess our need is to look at the talent we currently have and seek a true compliment. This is why, the first person the Pacers need to move is Mike Dunleavy. I like Mike - don't get me wrong - he's a solid player... on a different team. While Mike may post good numbers he does not fit well between Granger and Ford. The Pacers need a physical slasher between Granger and Ford. I think Quis proved this as Danny seemed to play his best ball next to the versatile Daniels. That is why the Pacers need to seek a polished, upgraded version of Daniels. I for one have always coveted Andre Iguodola from the 76ers. A player of his caliber, strength, and speed would add an attacker to the offense. While I understand many people dislike this style of play, you must remember that in a speed offense, you can post by attacking the rim. You also create 3pt opportunities and free throw attempts by attacking the rim without relent. The Pacers would be a solid team and Danny Granger would sustain a 24 point average if the Pacers had a player similar to the caliber and style of Iguodala. By adding more one dimensional jump and 3pt shooters, the Pacers would not find any balance (Ergo, who was the great 3pt shooter who played next to Reggie). They will continue to live and die by the three.

    The most obvious need the Pacers have in consideration to there current roster is a true post talent. Bottom line, while we can attack the rim with a physical guard, you have to be able to take advantage of mismatches. We simply can not take full advantage of the post. While I know many Pacers fans would like to see a Dale Davis model, I would prefer an Antonio Davis model. A.D. had the ability to post, rebound, and play defense. An Antonio Davis prospect is certainly not an out of reach "stretch" or financially unobtainable. In fact, I like the Knicks David Lee who is a RFA this summer - which could present a possible sign and trade to the right team. This would also add a smash mouth player next to Roy who will probably need that compliment down the road.

    To me, a well balanced Pacers team looks like this:

    ----Starting----
    C - Hibbert
    PF - "Antinio Davis" Model (David Lee?)
    SF - Granger
    SG - "Andre Iguodala" Model (Or maybe the real deal for a pick, Mike, and Quis.)
    PG - Ford
    ----Bench----
    SG/SF - Rush
    PF/C - Murphy
    PG/SG - Jack
    Last edited by 1984; 02-09-2009 at 11:54 PM.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    I stand by my post.
    I'm pretty sure Bird has all but stated that Lorbek won't be a Pacer, so stand by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mell
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    PG: This is the easier of the two. It's the exact type of PG that most people on this board want: A pass-first PG who plays solid defense and doesn't turn the ball over. A guy like Jose Calderon would be a great fit.
    While a Calderon type would be decent on offense, he's in my top 5 worst defensive point guards of the past 15 years he makes Saras look like a capable defender).

    I think we need a very tough, physical, athletic big to pair next to Hibbert. Aside from Blake Griffin in the draft, I have no idea who that could be. Currently in the league and possibly attainable? I have NO clue.
    Last edited by imawhat; 02-10-2009 at 12:43 AM.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    another big I like is big baby Davis from the celtics, he can post up and hit the jumper

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    And the 2nd round is littered every year with picks that never make it in the NBA.
    I agree but teams have quality picks in the second round. Antonio Davis, Ramon Sessions, Varejo & Carl Landry. Look @ last year's draft they had several second rounders making an impact D Jordan, Kyle Weaver, Mbah a Moute, & Goran Dragic. The Pacers will have a top tier second round pick and we need a good player.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Looking to next season, let's assume that we re-sign Jack and McBob, retain our draft pick in the 8-12 range, and let our other expirings drop off the books in order to avoid paying the luxury tax. This is the most likely scenario.

    That leaves us with a team of:

    C - Foster/Hibbert
    PF - Murphy/McRoberts
    SF - Granger
    SG - Dunleavy/Rush
    PG - Ford/Jack/Diener

    Plus our draft pick, which will likely not be an impact player, considering the lack of quality in this draft.

    So, my question is, how are we even supposed to be as good next year, much less better? If this year's team wins 30 games, then next year's looks to be about a 25-win team on paper.

    It's amazing to me that we can have so few players under contract and still run so close to the cap.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Looking to next season, let's assume that we re-sign Jack and McBob, retain our draft pick in the 8-12 range, and let our other expirings drop off the books in order to avoid paying the luxury tax. This is the most likely scenario.

    That leaves us with a team of:

    C - Foster/Hibbert
    PF - Murphy/McRoberts
    SF - Granger
    SG - Dunleavy/Rush
    PG - Ford/Jack/Diener

    Plus our draft pick, which will likely not be an impact player, considering the lack of quality in this draft.

    So, my question is, how are we even supposed to be as good next year, much less better? If this year's team wins 30 games, then next year's looks to be about a 25-win team on paper.

    It's amazing to me that we can have so few players under contract and still run so close to the cap.
    With that roster, expect the same of this year. Give or take a few wins.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    I would prefer Thabeet for his defense and decent rebounding and his quickness.
    That would require a higher pick than what the Pacers will have.
    Then I would look at Blair from Pitt. Ferocious offensive rebounder.
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  13. #38

    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by YoSoyIndy View Post
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    You don't have much of a gauge on the IU fan base if you think they're pushing for the Pacers to draft Vaden. And considering Vaden pissed off Purdue fans so much, that leaves very few Indiana basketball fans cheering for a Bailey-like draft.

    You are right, I stay as far away from the IU fan base as possible. I couldn't even tell you who the players on IU or Purdue are. I will say from what I hear both have good coaches. If they weren't Indiana institutions of higher learning, I wouldn't even know that.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    I agree but teams have quality picks in the second round. Antonio Davis, Ramon Sessions, Varejo & Carl Landry. Look @ last year's draft they had several second rounders making an impact D Jordan, Kyle Weaver, Mbah a Moute, & Goran Dragic. The Pacers will have a top tier second round pick and we need a good player.


    Finding a diamond in this draft in the middle or latter part of the 1st round will be an accomplishment let alone getting one in the 2nd round. This is the reason I feel the Pacers should trade their 1st pick. Not to mention my firm belief that Bird is incapable of finding that diamond if it exists.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by owl View Post
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    I would prefer Thabeet for his defense and decent rebounding and his quickness.
    That would require a higher pick than what the Pacers will have.
    Then I would look at Blair from Pitt. Ferocious offensive rebounder.
    Now, granted, I haven't seen Thabeet play yet this season. But last season, when I saw him, he looked even slower than Hibbert, so I don't see where people keep getting this "quickness" thing from.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    Anybody comment as to whether Earl Clark of Louisville is a Carl Landry type of player?
    Earl Clark is a SF, and is compared to Danny Granger by some draft sites actually.

  17. #42

    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    [QUOTE=owl;848774]


    I would prefer Thabeet for his defense and decent rebounding and his quickness.QUOTE]

    You have mentioned your desire for Thabeet before. What are you trying to say about Hibbert, since they play the same position?

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Finding a diamond in this draft in the middle or latter part of the 1st round will be an accomplishment let alone getting one in the 2nd round. This is the reason I feel the Pacers should trade their 1st pick. Not to mention my firm belief that Bird is incapable of finding that diamond if it exists.
    Larry has a plan. Keep in mind the Pacers first priority is to win back the fanbase. We are not that far away from having a winning team here in the next two years. This year's draft is very important.

  19. #44

    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    This year's draft is very important.

    It might be if someone other than Bird was doing the drafting. This is a weak draft for the best NBA execs, so why are you putting so much faith in Bird's drafting expertise to find that gem? Have you forgotten the 06 draft of Shawne Williams and James White so quickly? Or the 07 draft when Bird promised getting a draft pick only to get a 2nd rounder that he used on Stanko when he could have just as easily drafted Dominic McGuire, Ramon Sessions, or if he had to have a Euro player Mark Gasol.

    Just FYI, Sessions has scored 60 plus points the last 2 Bucks games. What has Stanko done his last 2 games in the NBA? Nothing b/c he's not even in the NBA or ever likely to be in the NBA.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Quis View Post
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    George Hill is a score-first combo-guard with a terrible assist-to-turnover ratio. I'd pass.
    .
    Please, he's got a better AT ratio than Jack.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Bird drafted Shawne Williams over Farmer & Rondo big deal. No Big Deal

    Dumars took Darko over Carmelo, Bosh, & Wade. Big Deal

    The reason why this draft is important is very simple it may make or break or franchise for the next two to three years. Odds are we will have a top tier pick this year. We need an immediate impact player.

    Sessions was drafted very late in the second round 56th overall. Bird was not the only GM to miss him. I do not know who to blame him or Donnie Walsh.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    The reason why this draft is important is very simple it may make or break or franchise for the next two to three years. Odds are we will have a top tier pick this year. We need an immediate impact player.
    I am someone who sees drafting well every as important but this draft in particular is not that important, IMO. I think there are some good prospects but nothing all that special.

    Some prospects for the Pacers could be Teague, Clark, Jordan, among others.

    Two guys who really have impressed me latley are Gerald Henderson and DeJuan Blair.

    Henderson just impresses me everytime I see him play. I will never forget the shot he hit on Wake Forest to tie the game. Granted Duke lost but the shot Henderson hit was just awesome. A clutch play. He has a nice game all around. The problem is we have Granger and Rush. I could live with drafting Gerald I would just worry that it sends a message to Brandon that the team doesn't have faith in him.

    DeJuan Blair is only a sophomore according to draftexpress. I thought he was a junior or senior. I just think this kid is tough and would love to take a chance on him.

    I just really hope that you are wrong about this being a make or break draft for the Pacers. Maybe my expectations are just too low but I am not thinking we get an all star out of this draft unless we pick 1rst and take Blake Griffin.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    The reason why this draft is important is very simple it may make or break or franchise for the next two to three years. Odds are we will have a top tier pick this year. We need an immediate impact player.
    I'm not sure I agree.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Now, granted, I haven't seen Thabeet play yet this season. But last season, when I saw him, he looked even slower than Hibbert, so I don't see where people keep getting this "quickness" thing from.

    I think Seth could do a better job of describing Thabeet but the guy is very lean and muscular and crosses the paint to snuff out almost any shot from the weak side.
    He rebounds better than Hibbert but does not have as much insight into the game as
    Hibbert. I believe it is possible Thabeet could play PF with Hibbert or be the second
    center to Hibbert. We all know that if Hibbert starts he will still pick up fouls
    and he will need a back up, and thus in steps Thabeet. Of course he won't be available
    at 8-12. Plus the Pacers desparately need more defense and he brings that.
    If not him I want the best rebounder out there, thus Blair.
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  25. #50

    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    You are right, I stay as far away from the IU fan base as possible. I couldn't even tell you who the players on IU or Purdue are. I will say from what I hear both have good coaches. If they weren't Indiana institutions of higher learning, I wouldn't even know that.
    Then why waste your time trying to make judgment calls on players from those teams? Seems like you're talking out of hatred instead of knowledge, which makes your comments seem less interesting.

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