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Thread: Looking to the Future

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    Default Looking to the Future

    In my mind, the Pacers have a few pieces in place that will still be around once we're a very good team again.

    I think that Rush, Granger, and Hibbert can all start for a good team. I think that Dunleavy and Jack can be primary bench players on a good team.

    As we look forward, the two big holes are PG and PF. What kinds of players do we need to look for to play in those positions? That's the question that interests me. I'll take a stab at it.

    PG: This is the easier of the two. It's the exact type of PG that most people on this board want: A pass-first PG who plays solid defense and doesn't turn the ball over. A guy like Jose Calderon would be a great fit. Unfortunately, very few of these PG's exist. The most important aspects are defense and low TO's. I think that Danny will continue to get better at creating for others. This is also something that seems to come pretty naturally to Rush when he's playing well. We don't need the future PG to be an extremely creative player. A mistake-free good defender with an outside shot would be sufficient. In other words, a PG version of Bruce Bowen or Shane Battier.

    PF: This is a much harder question to answer. Many people on this board point to Dale Davis as the ideal PF, but is he really the right guy to play next to Roy? The PF & C relationship is important, because when it doesn't work out, it can really derail a team. Davis and Smits worked well together because Smits was very good offensively and Davis was a great rebounder and defender. Brad Miller and JO was also a tandem that worked well together.

    Hibbert is an interesting player to think about pairing with someone. He does a number of things pretty well. He can operate offensively both in the low and high post. He's got a pretty decent jump shot. He does fairly well on the pick and roll. Defensively he does well against bigger, more physical offensive players, but struggles against smaller, quicker guys. It looks like he'll develop into a good shot-blocker, especially from the weak side. I don't think he'll ever be a great rebounder, and I don't see him making a lot of hustle plays. According to 82games.com, he's been more effective this year paired with Murphy than with Foster.

    In thinking about a player, I think we need to get a more talented guy at PF than we do at PG. First and foremost, our PF of the future needs to be able to do two things: rebound and guard perimeter-oriented PF's. Even though Rush and Granger both rebound well for their positions, Hibbert's sub-standard rebounding will always be a problem unless we have a stud rebounder at PF. Our PF is also going to have to be able to guard guys like Rashard Lewis and Antawn Jamison. Murphy's killing us this year with his inability to guard those guys. It's forcing us to go small.

    If we can find a guy who can get 10+ rebounds and guard small PF's, what else should they be able to do? I'm stumped on this a bit. I'd like this guy to be an above-average athlete who can make up for Roy's slowness. A guy who's active on the offensive boards and a good finisher would be more important than a guy having a particular offensive skill set (3-pt shooter, low-post scorer, etc.). A Dennis Rodman type would be nice.

    I'd love to hear others thoughts on this. Also, if there's any players available via trade or draft that people think would fit-in nicely.
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    soul brother #1 BKK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    If we can find a guy who can get 10+ rebounds and guard small PF's, what else should they be able to do? I'm stumped on this a bit. I'd like this guy to be an above-average athlete who can make up for Roy's slowness. A guy who's active on the offensive boards and a good finisher would be more important than a guy having a particular offensive skill set (3-pt shooter, low-post scorer, etc.). A Dennis Rodman type would be nice.
    this sounds a bit like (a motivated) Shawn Marion to me...

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    How about Carl Landry for a PF type to match with Roy?

    I'd like Conley for your description of a PG that fits.

    If the Pacers could get those two players, I think I'd be pretty optimistic about the future.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    How about Carl Landry for a PF type to match with Roy?

    I'd like Conley for your description of a PG that fits.

    If the Pacers could get those two players, I think I'd be pretty optimistic about the future.
    Those are actually two guys that popped into my head as I was typing. The other thing that popped into my head re:PF was "Man, this sounds a lot like a more effective version of McRoberts."

    I thought the Billy Keller article was interesting because it said he was originally brought in only to work with McRoberts. McRoberts is currently on a one year deal. It seems like if you're going to bring in a coach just for one guy who's on a one-year deal, you've probably got a pretty good idea that you're going to re-sign him.
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    I would say PG Hill from San Antonio and Pf Greg monroe or in the NBA Bass from the Mavericks

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Those are actually two guys that popped into my head as I was typing. The other thing that popped into my head re:PF was "Man, this sounds a lot like a more effective version of McRoberts."

    I thought the Billy Keller article was interesting because it said he was originally brought in only to work with McRoberts. McRoberts is currently on a one year deal. It seems like if you're going to bring in a coach just for one guy who's on a one-year deal, you've probably got a pretty good idea that you're going to re-sign him.

    I hope that is right, McBob is well worth a few more years to see where he goes in his development. I think he has quite a bit of upside.

    I know it's different due to one being picked in the 1st round and the other in the non guaranteed 2nd, but if you can stick with Hulk for all that time, let's invest some time and $ in McBob.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Those are actually two guys that popped into my head as I was typing. The other thing that popped into my head re:PF was "Man, this sounds a lot like a more effective version of McRoberts."

    I thought the Billy Keller article was interesting because it said he was originally brought in only to work with McRoberts. McRoberts is currently on a one year deal. It seems like if you're going to bring in a coach just for one guy who's on a one-year deal, you've probably got a pretty good idea that you're going to re-sign him.

    IF Hibbert was to be the center of the future, he's going to be more like Smits in regards as an offensive player, so you do need a DD type player next to Hibbert. A guy who can do the dirty work of rebounding and patrolling the paint with "D".

    I like Landry and advocated to sign or trade for him, but he's not the PF I described in the previous paragraph. Landry can do some rebounding, but not the 10 rebounds you want. He's not the DD policeman in the paint either. He has a nice mid-range jumper out to 3 point, but isn't a Murphy threat with it. I thought he'd be a nice compliment to Murphy. He's quicker than Murphy and plays better "D" than Murphy. He'd be better against a Jamison quickness wise than Murphy. He's more of a scoring PF than DD, but not the "D" patrolman of the paint as DD. I'm not sure Landry would be the right PF with Hibbert. Even at that I'd welcome the idea of Landry as a Pacer.

    Conley has been starting and playing well the last 5-6 games. With Hollins as the coach, I believe Conley can develop more now. My thinking is Conley isn't up to be traded as he was previously, but if they were interested in trading Conley and Darko for Ford and Baston I wouldn't cry. I'd even throw in a Denver 2nd rounder as well.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    George Hill is a score-first combo-guard with a terrible assist-to-turnover ratio. I'd pass.

    Mike Conley hasn't shown much at all. I know people have an emotional attachment to him because he's a local kid, but thus far he's been a total dud. If you could get him cheap, he might be worth taking a chance on, but I wouldn't give up much of value for him.

    I kind of like Landry. He's a rugged high-percentage scorer and a solid rebounder signed to a very reasonable contract. The problem is he's also a non--factor on defense who has a 10:1 FGA-to-Assist ratio, so I'm thinking he may be a blackhole.


    If we're looking for a young defense-orientated PF, I'd talk to Chicago about Tyrus Thomas.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    I guess the encouraging thing in thinking about this is I don't think you need a star PF or a star point guard. I think a Kyle Kowry and a Tyson Chandler would do wonders.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Quis View Post
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    George Hill is a score-first combo-guard with a terrible assist-to-turnover ratio. I'd pass.

    Mike Conley hasn't shown much at all. I know people have an emotional attachment to him because he's a local kid, but thus far he's been a total dud. If you could get him cheap, he might be worth taking a chance on, but I wouldn't give up much of value for him.

    I kind of like Landry. He's a rugged high-percentage scorer and a solid rebounder signed to a very reasonable contract. The problem is he's also a non--factor on defense who has a 10:1 FGA-to-Assist ratio, so I'm thinking he may be a blackhole.


    If we're looking for a young defense-orientated PF, I'd talk to Chicago about Tyrus Thomas.
    How would a Tyrus Thomas and Kirk Henrich do with the group here now, what does the Bulls need? Henrich gets touted as a very good defensive point guard, although I'm not sure I buy that.

    Do the Bulls need shooters, I have some they may be interested in?

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Lorbek might be able to play for this team next year.

    We also have multiple second round picks from the Shawne Williams trade. It will be interesting to see what pick we end up with this year. I would not mind picking up Robert Vaden in the second round ecspecially if JOB remains our coach.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    [QUOTE=Quis;848369]
    Mike Conley hasn't shown much at all. I know people have an emotional attachment to him because he's a local kid, but thus far he's been a total dud. If you could get him cheap, he might be worth taking a chance on, but I wouldn't give up much of value for him.

    QUOTE]

    Conley has been playing very well since the coaching change. He needs to work on his mid range jump shot but he has two things going for him that you cannot teach speed and court awareness.
    As far as your local kid angle. I would not mind having more local boys on the team keep in mind how great our state is in basketball. Indiana is the mecca of basketball not Madison Square Garden.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    Lorbek might be able to play for this team next year.

    We also have multiple second round picks from the Shawne Williams trade. It will be interesting to see what pick we end up with this year. I would not mind picking up Robert Vaden in the second round ecspecially if JOB remains our coach.


    Lorbek will never wear a Pacers uni, and no thanks to Vaden. I'd rather just give a 2nd round pick away than use it on Vaden. In essence, that's what you'd be doing by drafting Vaden. Reminds me of when the Pacers drafted Bailey... wasted pick for the IU fans and the Indiana hometown people.

    And to think I was just saying the other day this will be the 1st year in years I won't have to hear the call to draft an IU player. I should have known better.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Justin, Lorbek might wear a Pacers uniform keep in mind he is not expensive. Have you seen Vaden play this year. He has a very quick release and can shoot the ball from the three point line.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Lorbek will never wear a Pacers uni, and no thanks to Vaden. I'd rather just give a 2nd round pick away than use it on Vaden. In essence, that's what you'd be doing by drafting Vaden. Reminds me of when the Pacers drafted Bailey... wasted pick for the IU fans and the Indiana hometown people.

    And to think I was just saying the other day this will be the 1st year in years I won't have to hear the call to draft an IU player. I should have known better.
    So all players from IU are trash to you? If there is a player that is talented, smart, and available I don't care if he plays for Texas Tech you pick him up. If your saying you would pass up Gordon at 11 you are dedicated to your logic.

    Vaden plays for UAB btw. And I don't want Vaden. He is too fat and slow.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    Those are actually two guys that popped into my head as I was typing. The other thing that popped into my head re:PF was "Man, this sounds a lot like a more effective version of McRoberts."

    I thought the Billy Keller article was interesting because it said he was originally brought in only to work with McRoberts. McRoberts is currently on a one year deal. It seems like if you're going to bring in a coach just for one guy who's on a one-year deal, you've probably got a pretty good idea that you're going to re-sign him.

    That's what I was thinking. And I see no reason why he couldn't develop into the perfect compliment for a guy like Roy. He's the youngest and most athletic player on the team who plays hard every time he's touched the floor. He just hasn't touched it enough to develop much.
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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    In the year 2000...


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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Introcold, Vaden is not fat or slow. I watch him play live when UAB played Butler. The quickness in his release on his shot is on par with Stephen Curry. Vaden will be drafted this year. No if, and, or but's about that.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by BKK View Post
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    this sounds a bit like (a motivated) Shawn Marion to me...
    This is what I was going to say too...

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by BKK View Post
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    this sounds a bit like (a motivated) Shawn Marion to me...
    Do you have proof as to the existence of this mythical creature? Photos? Eyewitnesses? Anything?

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Quis View Post
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    George Hill is a score-first combo-guard with a terrible assist-to-turnover ratio. I'd pass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Quis View Post
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    Mike Conley hasn't shown much at all. I know people have an emotional attachment to him because he's a local kid, but thus far he's been a total dud. If you could get him cheap, he might be worth taking a chance on, but I wouldn't give up much of value for him.

    I kind of like Landry. He's a rugged high-percentage scorer and a solid rebounder signed to a very reasonable contract. The problem is he's also a non--factor on defense who has a 10:1 FGA-to-Assist ratio, so I'm thinking he may be a blackhole.


    If we're looking for a young defense-orientated PF, I'd talk to Chicago about Tyrus Thomas.



    have you seen George Hill playing, he is nice, can shoot and play D and is a rookie(rookies make mistakes) also Thomas could never be a Pacers for the only reason that he has attituted problems and kills every coach that try to coach him.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    Justin, Lorbek might wear a Pacers uniform keep in mind he is not expensive. Have you seen Vaden play this year. He has a very quick release and can shoot the ball from the three point line.

    I stand by my post.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Cold View Post
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    So all players from IU are trash to you? If there is a player that is talented, smart, and available I don't care if he plays for Texas Tech you pick him up. If your saying you would pass up Gordon at 11 you are dedicated to your logic.

    Vaden plays for UAB btw. And I don't want Vaden. He is too fat and slow.


    I never said players from IU were trash... you did. Funny how you'd mention Texas Tech.

    What I said was I was looking forward to not having to hear about "lets draft IU player XX" this year... hopefully for a # of years. I also said Vaden would be a wasted 2nd round pick.

    I'm anything but an IU fan, that's putting it mildly since I grew up as one, but I'd never turn an IU or Purdue player down just b/c they came from those institutions of higher learning. I just get fed up hearing about "the Pacers need to draft IU player XX " every year. Just b/c they went to IU doesn't mean they are NBA quality nor should the Pacers draft them. Unfortunately, IU fans seem to think differently.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    Introcold, Vaden is not fat or slow. I watch him play live when UAB played Butler. The quickness in his release on his shot is on par with Stephen Curry. Vaden will be drafted this year. No if, and, or but's about that.

    And the 2nd round is littered every year with picks that never make it in the NBA.

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    Default Re: Looking to the Future

    Don't know enough to comment on George Hill.

    I do like Vaden and this is coming from a Boilermaker. He's got excellent range and would be a great outside shooter to bring off the bench for the 2nd squad.

    As for a PF I think would fit with Roy is tough defensive-minded PF that can hit the open 15 footer. Haslem, Wilcox, Gooden. From the draft - Griffin (of course), Monroe, and Hill.

    I think we're sufficient at PG between Ford, Jack and Diener. I just wish Jack was at PG. Can we combine all three to form the great three-headed Pacer Knights of Ni PG?

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