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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

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  • Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

    This is a little different than the typical "sky is falling" thread regarding the state of the Pacer franchise and a possible relocation.

    What I want to consider is that Mel and Herb won't own the team forever, and that apparently none of the other family members want to take over the responsiblity. Therefore, it is a near certainty that the team will be sold "at some point".

    I won't even ask you to identify potential buyers, that doesn't matter. What I will challenge you to do is to name a possible city for relocation that can support an NBA team. I contend that it is much more difficult to come up with a viable relocation city than what you might think.

    Among NBA owners, it is common that the owner or group of owners have substantial business interests in the city where their teams are located, or are residents of the city themselves.

    So, in order for the team to be relocated, that may require that a pairing of a willing buyer and his city be found to assume ownership. And, in my opinion, there simply aren't very many viable city/metropolitan areas that can support an NBA franchise.

    To relocate an NBA team to a city with the expectation of long-term success, I believe it would require either a very substantial population base, or at the very least, a city with lesser population that does not already have an NFL team and/or a major league baseball team.

    Oklahoma City has 2/3 the population as the Indy area. Even without other pro teams, just how long do you expect them to hold a fan base of nearly 19,000? Once the novelty and the "honeymoon" are over, give them a couple of losing seasons and let's see how many fans are still attending and how viable the franchise is. If they can continue to connect with the city and establish some traditions, then maybe they have a chance. Otherwise, probably not.

    Anyway, many are fearful of a relocation. All I'm asking is if you really think that is likely, where do you think the Pacers could be relocated? Hopefully, in going through this exercise, perhaps we can all be a little calmer about the current news regarding renegotiation between the Simons and CIB.

    I've listed the 50 largest municipal areas by population to help in your selection. Municipal areas (or near by areas) with NBA teams appear in bold print.

    RankMunicipalityState2000.07
    1New York cityNew York8,104,079
    2Los Angeles cityCalifornia3,845,541
    3Chicago cityIllinois2,862,244
    4Houston cityTexas2,012,626
    5Philadelphia cityPennsylvania1,470,151
    6Phoenix cityArizona1,418,041
    7San Diego cityCalifornia1,263,756
    8San Antonio cityTexas1,236,249
    9Dallas cityTexas1,210,393
    10San Jose cityCalifornia904,522
    11Detroit cityMichigan900,198
    12Indianapolis city (balance)Indiana784,242
    13Jacksonville cityFlorida777,704
    14San Francisco cityCalifornia744,230
    15Columbus cityOhio730,008
    16Austin cityTexas681,804
    17Memphis cityTennessee671,929
    18Baltimore cityMaryland636,251
    19Fort Worth cityTexas603,337
    20Charlotte cityNorth Carolina594,359
    21El Paso cityTexas592,099
    22Milwaukee cityWisconsin583,624
    23Seattle cityWashington571,480
    24Boston cityMassachusetts569,165
    25Denver cityColorado556,835
    26Louisville-Jefferson County cityKentucky556,332
    27Washington cityDistrict of Columbia553,523
    28Nashville-Davidson (balance)Tennessee546,719
    29Las Vegas cityNevada534,847
    30Portland cityOregon533,492
    31Oklahoma City cityOklahoma528,042
    32Tucson cityArizona512,023
    33Albuquerque cityNew Mexico484,246
    34Long Beach cityCalifornia476,564
    35New Orleans cityLouisiana462,269
    36Cleveland cityOhio458,684
    37Fresno cityCalifornia457,719
    38Sacramento cityCalifornia454,330
    39Kansas City cityMissouri444,387
    40Virginia Beach cityVirginia440,098
    41Mesa cityArizona437,454
    42Atlanta cityGeorgia419,122
    43Omaha cityNebraska409,416
    44Oakland cityCalifornia397,976
    45Tulsa cityOklahoma383,764
    46Miami cityFlorida379,724
    47Honolulu CDPHawaii377,260
    48Minneapolis cityMinnesota373,943
    49Colorado Springs cityColorado369,363
    50Arlington cityTexas359,467
    Last edited by beast23; 02-04-2009, 02:06 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

    seattle...relocation is a serious possibility if the pacers don't find themselves a star.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

      Seattle has needed a new arena for more than a decade. Stern allowed the Sonics to leave because repeated funding efforts failed.

      Next idea? Because Seattle is not likely to be getting another team any time soon.
      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
      And life itself, rushing over me
      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

        For some reason over the past decade I've mentioned Mexico City as an option for an NBA team.

        This from Wikipedia....

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

        The actual city population, 2006 numbers, is larger than NY... 8,720,916

        The metropolitan area also has a larger number than NY... 19,231,829

        As for ownership, Carlos Slim Helú. How does the 2nd richest man in the world with $60 Billion sound.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Slim_Hel%C3%BA

        Also, I have one word for you..... merchandising!

        How many jerseys do you think they would sell in one year?

        OK we have an owner with deep pockets and an untapped market with more than 19 million people.

        Do we worry yet?

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

          Originally posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
          For some reason over the past decade I've mentioned Mexico City as an option for an NBA team.

          This from Wikipedia....

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

          The actual city population, 2006 numbers, is larger than NY... 8,720,916

          The metropolitan area also has a larger number than NY... 19,231,829

          As for ownership, Carlos Slim Helú. How does the 2nd richest man in the world with $60 Billion sound.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Slim_Hel%C3%BA

          Also, I have one word for you..... merchandising!

          How many jerseys do you think they would sell in one year?

          OK we have an owner with deep pockets and an untapped market with more than 19 million people.

          Do we worry yet?
          You couldn't get players to go there.
          "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

          -Lance Stephenson

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

            Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
            Seattle has needed a new arena for more than a decade. Stern allowed the Sonics to leave because repeated funding efforts failed.

            Next idea? Because Seattle is not likely to be getting another team any time soon.
            seattle will have another nba team, there is no question about that. seattle is a hotbed for basketball, had plenty of fan support for the sonics, and has supported their other sports franchises fairly well. stern can ***** about a new arena all he wants, but that has more to do with the owner/mayor than it does the fans and how many tickets were being sold.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

              Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
              You couldn't get players to go there.
              Why, cause its Mexico?

              You think the night life is better in Utah or Charlotte?

              Just how much money would a player make in endorsments in a country the size of Mexico when he's the star of their only basketball team.

              How many All Star games would you voted onto when you have a fan base that size?

              Do all NBA players live in the city they play in?

              OK, tell me why no player would want to be a members of a Mexico City team?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

                Originally posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
                Why, cause its Mexico?
                Yes.
                "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

                -Lance Stephenson

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

                  Agreed about Mexico city. No chance. More likely is a Latin League affiliated with the NBA.

                  Judging market viability by population is misguided. Better to look at incomes in the area. Seattle isn't gigantic, but there's a lot of money there. Same goes for San Diego. Somebody has to pay for those luxury boxes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

                    You're putting your finger on one big reason the Simons may be so nervous, as well as the rest of the owners.

                    What happens if the Simons put the Pacers up for sale, and can't sell them? Or, at least, can't get anywhere near Forbes' $300 million figure?

                    I can't find anything (I get a weird Yahoo error on Firefox, periodically), but aren't the Griz still for sale? From what I can gather, Heisley was going to sell, had a deal with a group that included Christian Laettner, but that deal fell through. Since then, he's taken the team off the market, but has still expressed interest in local ownership.

                    I do not have access to any more info than was available in the Forbes article from December that I linked in the other thread. However, intuitively, I believe the Simons have sustained operating and cash losses during their tenure as owners of the Pacers. This is offset by the increasing value of the asset (the team), theoretically, but that can only be realized by the sale of the team. Think about the last time you had your house appraised. Do you believe you can get that? My last re-fi appraised my house at $20k higher than what a nearly identical house right next to it sold for within six weeks of the appraisal. Think about the appraisal you got when you bought your house? I paid a good 10% less than the appraisal value.

                    I can't put a probability on it, but I believe that contraction (the folding of franchises) is a possibility in the future in the NBA, unless there is a serious change in the cost structure. The salaries are too disconnected from the gate receipts. This is due to the TV contract, but the NBA, unlike the NFL, has iffy ratings. In March, 2008, the NBA reported a 20% rise in ratings, to 2.5 on ABC and 1.1 on ESPN and TNT cable outlets. Compare this to the NFL, while the NFL receive shares 5 times that for regular season game, ten times that for a playoff game, and 15 times that for the Superbowl.

                    The NBA, IMO, is overvalued and overstretched right now. I am not convinced that 30 franchises is the best long term business model.

                    BTW...the boogeyman for cities with struggling franchises in the NBA has been Las Vegas for a while. However, their viability is taking a serious hit in the current economic environment. Their core industry, gambling and entertainment, is a luxury item that fewer and fewer can afford. Meanwhile, their housing market appears to have had both one of the biggest bubbles and the biggest bursts during this slide.
                    Last edited by count55; 02-04-2009, 09:20 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

                      I seriously doubt they would move to Mexico city - I have been reading things about the drug war being completely out of control and the gov't down there losing their authority - way, way, way too much turmoil down there.

                      croz24 - I think we have our star - Danny Granger

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

                        Kansas City. They built the Sprint Center for the sole purpose of bringing a NBA or NHL team to the city. It's a big, nice stadium that has no real main tenant. They support an NFL and MLB team. They're the most likely.

                        I'll also add St. Louis and Louisville

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

                          Louisville - insult to injury.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

                            Originally posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
                            Why, cause its Mexico?

                            You think the night life is better in Utah or Charlotte?

                            Just how much money would a player make in endorsments in a country the size of Mexico when he's the star of their only basketball team.

                            How many All Star games would you voted onto when you have a fan base that size?

                            Do all NBA players live in the city they play in?

                            OK, tell me why no player would want to be a members of a Mexico City team?
                            The thought of having a loved family member held for a 10-million dollar ransom on a bi-monthly basis would probably be a turnoff.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Worried About a Pacer Relocation? Tell Me Where...

                              My money is on Vegas.
                              BillS

                              A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                              Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                              Comment

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