View Poll Results: Should we trade for Brand?

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  • Yes

    26 38.24%
  • No

    40 58.82%
  • It wont make a difference on our team

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Thread: Elton Brand?

  1. #26
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Not very realistic, but I would trade anyone except Granger to get him

    if the Sixers were in complete rebuild mode, maybe we could trade expiring contracts and a first round pick to get Brand. But Sixers are playing well - so that is why I don't see it as realistic. Sixers need outside shooters - do we have any that they would want

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    You need to do the math again. If we traded for him your way we would be over the tax and still have to sign some more players.
    Luxury tax threshhold this year is over 71 million.

    With Brand our payroll next season would be just over 65 million.

    It's actually not even close.

  3. #28
    Pacer Junky Will Galen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    Luxury tax threshhold this year is over 71 million.

    With Brand our payroll next season would be just over 65 million.

    It's actually not even close.
    Name 2009-10
    Murphy $11,047,619
    Dunleavy $9,780,992
    Tinsley $7,200,000
    Foster $6,077,500
    Ford $8,500,000
    Granger $10,000,000
    Rush $1,934,160
    Diener $1,740,000
    Hibbert $1,575,360
    Brand $14,858,472
    Total $72,714,103

    That's according to Sham and with Brand's salary added. We also have to add at least three more players to the roster, but it would probably be four. Depending on what possible draft picks cost us that could be another $3-4.5 million.

    So Brand would cost us possibily $8-11 million counting luxury tax. Plus we wouldn't be getting money from the tax so that could cost us another $2 million.

    So signing Brand would cost us between $10 and $13 million all together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    As far as cap concerns, I wouldn't have any. We would still be safely under the luxury tax next season. His big numbers don't come for a few years after we unload Murphy and Tinsley's abatross deals.
    He would put us even further into the luxury tax the following year and we would be losing Diener.

    Name 2010-11
    Murphy $11,968,254
    Dunleavy $10,561,984
    Tinsley $7,650,000
    Foster $6,655,000
    Ford $8,500,000
    Granger $11,050,000
    Rush $2,069,040
    Diener 0
    Hibbert $1,685,280
    Brand $15,959,100
    Total $76,098,658

    Edit; Granger signed a contract for 5 years and $60 million. So he would need to have a contract starting at $10 million with 10.5% raises to reach $60 million. I had him starting at $8m, so a Brand trade would be even worse.
    Last edited by Will Galen; 02-02-2009 at 02:27 AM.

  4. #29
    Member Phree Refill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Ok I hear all the comments about Brand being a JO part 2 and what not. Let me just throw this very unlikley scenario out there. Would you take Brand if Philly took Tinsley? I do believe in Chad Ford's "point guards on the block" that he thought Andre Miller is possibly being shopped. Maybe they'd like to bring in another starting quality point guard to have in case they do decide to deal Miller.

  5. #30
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    Thumbs up Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phree Refill View Post
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    Ok I hear all the comments about Brand being a JO part 2 and what not. Let me just throw this very unlikley scenario out there. Would you take Brand if Philly took Tinsley? I do believe in Chad Ford's "point guards on the block" that he thought Andre Miller is possibly being shopped. Maybe they'd like to bring in another starting quality point guard to have in case they do decide to deal Miller.
    I'm new so this may be in the wrong context, but:


  6. #31
    CA Pacer Fan A-Train's Avatar
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    I, too, disagree with this notion that he's "injury prone". I'm not sure where this idea comes from, but here are the facts.

    Over the first eight years of his career he averaged playing 76 games a year. That's hardly what I'd call injury prone.

    During that time, he averaged 20.3 points and 10.3 rebounds per game

    Then, he blew out his achilles at the beginning of last year and separated his shoulder this year. I may be wrong, but I've not heard of any lingering knee problems with Brand.

    I can understand some hesitation to him returning fully from the achilles injury, but to label him as injury prone is incorrect. He's been a very durable and consistent scorer and rebounder. Very under appreciated, in my opinion.

    That said, I wouldn't incude Granger in a trade for him. That would be absurd. I wouldn't mind Brand playing alongside Granger, though.

  7. #32
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    brand would be a great pickup. whether we have the assets to acquire him is another question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    if the Sixers were in complete rebuild mode, maybe we could trade expiring contracts and a first round pick to get Brand. But Sixers are playing well - so that is why I don't see it as realistic. Sixers need outside shooters - do we have any that they would want
    murphy + expiring + pick or dunleavy + expiring would work. would the sixers take it? i think they'd rather give brand another chance to integrate with the team.

    for the pacers, we can't afford to send out all expiring contracts anyway - it would put us in the luxury tax.

  8. #33
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    Brand is really, really good.

    I don't like the injury trail or the multi-year contract. But I like Brand.

    Really, if healthy, he could be the ideal missing piece for us.
    I agree. The injury recovery concerns makes it too tough to do. And as Galen points out, the Pacers financially have very little chance of being able to do this deal since Philly won't take Dun or Troy back in return.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    I'm sorry. Comparing Brand to JO?? Really??

    Let's take a look at how many games they've played each season.

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...ort=NBA&id=432

    CareerFG3 PTFTReboundsMisc
    YearTeamGMinMAPctMAPctMAPctOffDefTotAstTOStlBlkPFPts
    1996POR4545869153.45101.0004778.603398512482722646185
    1997POR60808112231.48502.0004589.5068012120117551558101269
    1998POR353103683.43401.0001835.51442559713144144190
    1999POR70868108222.48601.0005798.5829713222918471155127273
    2000IND812641404868.46505.000233388.60124954579498161492282801041
    2001IND7227075431133.479114.071284413.688188569757118174451662691371
    2002IND7728646101260.484721.333373510.731202594796155180661782771600
    2003IND7827886081400.434218.111348460.757193585778164181591992481566
    2004IND441530386854.45216.167295391.754853033888213125881731068
    2005IND511802380805.472310.300261368.709102374476133151271171771024
    2006IND6924614981141.43607.000343447.767153508661167203501822321339
    2007IND421207225512.43905.000121163.74282201283931062087129571
    2008TOR33930171364.47001.00088111.7936016922953701356101430



    Now, look at Brand...

    http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...ort=NBA&id=605

    CareerFG3 PTFTReboundsMisc
    YearTeamGMinMAPctMAPctMAPctOffDefTotAstTOStlBlkPFPts
    1999CHI8129996291305.48202.000367536.685348462810155228661322591625
    2000CHI7429065781215.47602.000334472.708285461746240219711182431490
    2001LAC8030205321010.52700.000389524.742396529925191173801632541453
    2002LAC622454451899.50201.000244356.685283420703157161711582041146
    2003LAC692670484982.49301.000411532.773269445714227193641542291379
    2004LAC8130016291251.50303.000364484.752296474770208183621692401622
    2005LAC7930967561435.52713.333440568.775236554790208173812012271953
    2006LAC8030736451211.533111.000351461.761268476744235202771792381642
    2007LAC827452114.45600.0003747.787214364161731521141
    2008PHI26868157348.45100.00071103.689701692393767174170385



    I don't see a comparision. Not really. I find it amazing that some of you discount his whole career based on one major injury. I totally agree with A-Train.

    Also,.......

    I'm sure Brand's on the block - I don't happen to think that's very bright on Philly's part. Right now his worth is as low as it's ever been. Two things could happen - he returns to his former playing level once he fully recovers from the knee injury (he isn't injured any more but it generally takes 2 years to get back to where you were from that) or he stays at the level he's at.

    The fact that he had 6 blocks in his last game may indicate that his athleticism is coming back. IMO Philly should hang onto him a while longer until maybe he becomes worth his salary. If he doesn't, they're no worse off than they are now.

    I don't think Brand is as bad of a fit as some people have been saying. Yes, he's a solid post player but he isn't some lumbering behemoth either - he can get up and down the floor if he's in that kind of system. But I don't see a deal out there that's good for the Pacers.
    When DK is on his meds, like today, he occasionally makes a LOT of sense.

    Are you guys forgetting how bad Amare looked when he came back from surgery? Takes time. Look at him now.

    Personally, I would run, not walk, at the chance to get Brand.

    That being said, I don't think there's any way they part with Elton.

    (Also, given the dramatic change in the landscape of big men for Philly this year, I think it would behove the Pacers to keep an eye on the rehab of Jason Smith. He's odd man out, and recovering from ACL surgery, but based upon my memory, He would be a nice, young fit for us.)


    And just to be funny....

    http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade...radeid=4959832

    Philadelphia Trade Breakdown
    Change in Team Outlook: +6.1 ppg, +2.4 rpg, and +2.6 apg.

    Incoming Players
    Jeff Foster
    6-11 C / PF from Southwest Texas State
    7.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 25.2 minutes
    Marquis Daniels
    6-5 SG from Auburn
    13.7 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 30.7 minutes
    Outgoing Players
    Elton Brand
    6-9 PF from Duke
    14.8 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.4 apg in 33.4 minutes



    Indiana Trade Breakdown
    Change in Team Outlook: -6.1 ppg, -2.4 rpg, and -2.6 apg.

    Incoming Players
    Elton Brand
    6-9 PF from Duke
    14.8 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 1.4 apg in 33.4 minutes
    Outgoing Players
    Jeff Foster
    6-11 C / PF from Southwest Texas State
    7.2 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.9 apg in 25.2 minutes
    Marquis Daniels
    6-5 SG from Auburn
    13.7 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.1 apg in 30.7 minutes
    Last edited by Skaut_Ech; 01-30-2009 at 01:24 PM.
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  10. #35

    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    The injury concern is to great for me to feel comfortable trading for Brand. I don't like his contract either. After this season Dun and Murphy have only 2 more years of contract. Their albatross contracts are getting to where they are tradedable, and I hate to see the Pacers get into another large contract that could restrict their future for years to come. To me Brand isn't worth making the trade for.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    The Pacers would have the same problem that the sixers have right now, they play up tempo and Brand is more of a half court player, plus he is always hurt and is making way to much money.


    I agree with what you are saying. Just remember once you get your wish that O'Brien is gone, chanz' is that the next Pacers coach won't be playing the same style of game as O'Brien. Brand would have a better chanz of fitting in the offense.

    Still I'd pass on Brand. Plus I don't see Philly doing a trade with the Pacers either. Now, if Bird could work some miracle to trade for Speights I'm all on board. A Speights for Hibbert trade wouldn't bother me one bit.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by A-Train View Post
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    I, too, disagree with this notion that he's "injury prone". I'm not sure where this idea comes from, but here are the facts.

    Over the first eight years of his career he averaged playing 76 games a year. That's hardly what I'd call injury prone.

    During that time, he averaged 20.3 points and 10.3 rebounds per game

    Then, he blew out his achilles at the beginning of last year and separated his shoulder this year. I may be wrong, but I've not heard of any lingering knee problems with Brand.

    I can understand some hesitation to him returning fully from the achilles injury, but to label him as injury prone is incorrect. He's been a very durable and consistent scorer and rebounder. Very under appreciated, in my opinion.

    That said, I wouldn't incude Granger in a trade for him. That would be absurd. I wouldn't mind Brand playing alongside Granger, though.
    x 2

  13. #38

    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Elton Brand is what this team needs. The only concern is the legnth of his contract and how much he is gettin paid... but you have to ask yourself, what free agents are we really going to get to come to a sub par Indiana team. We aren't going to be able to sign any of the big stars in 2010. At this point I think Elton would be the best big guy we can get. I think we have the pieces to get it done also. A combination of Marquis, Rasho, Murph, Dunleavy would be enticing to Philly IMHO.

  14. #39
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    When DK is on his meds, like today, he occasionally makes a LOT of sense.
    Except for mistaking a knee for an achilles.
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  15. #40
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Galen View Post
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    Name 2009-10
    Murphy $11,047,619
    Dunleavy $9,780,992
    Tinsley $7,200,000
    Foster $6,077,500
    Ford $8,500,000
    Granger $8,000,000
    Rush $1,934,160
    Diener $1,740,000
    Hibbert $1,575,360
    Brand $14,858,472
    Total $70,714,103

    That's according to Sham and with Brand's salary added. We also have to add at least three more players to the roster, but it would probably be four. Depending on what possible draft picks cost us that could be another $3-4.5 million.

    So Brand would cost us possibily $6-9 million counting luxury tax. Plus we wouldn't be getting money from the tax so that could cost us another $2 million.

    So signing Brand would cost us between $8 and $11 million all together.



    He would put us even further into the luxury tax the following year and we would be losing Diener.

    Name 2010-11
    Murphy $11,968,254
    Dunleavy $10,561,984
    Tinsley $7,650,000
    Foster $6,655,000
    Ford $8,500,000
    Granger 8,840,000
    Rush $2,069,040
    Diener 0
    Hibbert $1,685,280
    Brand $15,959,100
    Total $73,888,658
    Wow, my bad, **** poor math on my part. But Diener does have a player option, so who knows if he'll exercise it or not.

    Anyhow I would still do it if I were the Simons because of the huge talent upgrade we would be getting. Then hopefully you can unload Foster for an expiring before next year. Either that, or convince them to take a different combination of players, maybe Foster replaces Rasho for example.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 01-30-2009 at 07:10 PM.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    I'd trade for Brand as long as it didn't include Granger. The 76ers are worried about keeping Miller next year so they may even be in the market for a point guard. Our biggest challenge would be in what we have to offer after Granger. They may be interested in expiring and either Rush, Hibbert or a 1st. round pick. I don't see trading Murphy, or Dun in a package as something that would get it done unless we gave us some young talent in the process.
    Granger has a higher trade value then Brand, but they could still get a lot more for him then any combination of our second tier players.

  17. #42

    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taterhead View Post
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    But Diener does have a player option, so who knows if he'll exercise it or not.

    That's a given he'll pick up his player option. He's not exactly a hot commodity to say the least.

  18. #43

    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerized View Post
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    I'd trade for Brand as long as it didn't include Granger. The 76ers are worried about keeping Miller next year so they may even be in the market for a point guard. Our biggest challenge would be in what we have to offer after Granger. They may be interested in expiring and either Rush, Hibbert or a 1st. round pick. I don't see trading Murphy, or Dun in a package as something that would get it done unless we gave us some young talent in the process.
    Granger has a higher trade value then Brand, but they could still get a lot more for him then any combination of our second tier players.
    I'll suggest an even more stringent approach: Tinsley, Quis & our unprotected (gasp!) #1 for Brand. With our recent push for the playoffs, our pick is unlikely to amount to a future star. For what Brand is now, that's decent value. If I thought he would be All-Star material in four years, I'd offer more, but with his daunting contract AND iffy health status (questionable "full" recovery), well, no Tinsley, no deal.

    P.S. Justin, I thought about trying to add Nesto & Baston in for your guy, Andre Miller, but I just couldn't work out a reasonable arrangement.
    Last edited by DrFife; 01-31-2009 at 09:04 AM. Reason: Note to Justin

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Trading Granger or Ford for Brand would just be dumb. Like, mind-bogglingly dumb. That just creates one hole to fill another.

    If we really wanted him, though, he could probably be had for Rasho and Quis's contracts.

    I would steer clear of Elton, due strictly to his injury-proneness. We really don't need JO 2.0 at this point. Which is too bad, because Brand is the type of player we need. We just need him for more than half a season.

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    I've started to change my mind on this. I think if we offer Philly a "Reset Button" on signing him by offering our expiring contracts plus a draft pick, we should take the chance on it.

  21. #46
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Philly says they are not interested in trading Brand.

  22. #47
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I would steer clear of Elton, due strictly to his injury-proneness. We really don't need JO 2.0 at this point. Which is too bad, because Brand is the type of player we need. We just need him for more than half a season.

    I'm going to use you as my whipping boy, Shade , casue I don't think people are reading the whole thread. I am getting tired of this J.O. 2.0, or whatever catch phrase on this thread, saying Brand is anywhere near as broken down as JO.

    I posted how many games a season both have played. JO has missed game after game, season after season, due to injury. JO played 42 games last year. 69 games the year before. 51 the year before that. 44 the year before that.

    Brand had one major injury. Last year. Add one freak shoulder injury this year and suddenly these baseless JO comparisions have started.

    I'd be more likely to compare him to Amare Stoudamire, of anyone. Remember when Amare had his knee surgery? Remember how bad he looked when he came back the first few times? And he was vcoming back to the same team he left in the same system.

    I'm not saying his age isn't a concern, but I think the biggest factor for Elton is that Elton is coming off surgery AND playing for a new team in a new system. That's a lot of adapting to do.

    I just don't think comparing him to JO is fair or accurate.
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  23. #48
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Like I said before Brand won't fit the up tempo style JOB plays, that is the number one reason why this rumor is out there, this team plays up tempo and Brand only plays halft court.
    The other issue is that Brand's contract is to big and just sending expirings for him won't do it because this would put the Pacers way over the salary cap.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
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    I'm going to use you as my whipping boy, Shade , casue I don't think people are reading the whole thread. I am getting tired of this J.O. 2.0, or whatever catch phrase on this thread, saying Brand is anywhere near as broken down as JO.

    I posted how many games a season both have played. JO has missed game after game, season after season, due to injury. JO played 42 games last year. 69 games the year before. 51 the year before that. 44 the year before that.

    Brand had one major injury. Last year. Add one freak shoulder injury this year and suddenly these baseless JO comparisions have started.

    I'd be more likely to compare him to Amare Stoudamire, of anyone. Remember when Amare had his knee surgery? Remember how bad he looked when he came back the first few times? And he was vcoming back to the same team he left in the same system.

    I'm not saying his age isn't a concern, but I think the biggest factor for Elton is that Elton is coming off surgery AND playing for a new team in a new system. That's a lot of adapting to do.

    I just don't think comparing him to JO is fair or accurate.
    Sometimes "one major injury" is all it takes to automatically catapult a player into the realm of "broken down."

    Not to say that that's necessarily the case here, but with this franchise's history on that kind of thing (JO, Bender), it's not really worth the gamble.

    It's kind of how I felt about the JO trade to Toronto. I like TJ (bought a Swingman of him, in fact), but his "one major injury" bothered me. And, what do 'ya know; he's been out a good number of games already this season, most likely due to complications arising from that injury.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: Elton Brand?

    You have no proof of that, and I don't even see how you can speculate on such a connection, honestly. He had a serious spinal injury in his neck. He looked just fine when he got here, and he played well. Then later on his back tightened up. I see no correlation.

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