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Thread: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

  1. #101
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I wouldn't do that unless you are prepared to give up layup after layup. Pacers dont have a shot blocker, so they have to flood the lane or it will be a layup drill

    Layups = 2 points
    That's better than leaving 3 point shooters wide open.

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  2. #102

    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Thank you. There are 10 NBA teams that are worse in defensive FG%. So pacers are 19th best defensive team in the NBA. Not as good as I would like, but not as bad as many seem to think

    Wouldn't that make them the 20th best with 19 teams better than them?

  3. #103
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Layups = 2 points
    That's better than leaving 3 point shooters wide open.

    -Bball
    Layups are made probably 75% of the time, three pointers are made at 37% . I'll take my chances


    ESPN stats do list three point FG% given up,m but only in round numbers -Pacers give up 37%. 8 teams give up a higher % than the Pacers and 4 other teams give up 37%. Not too bad for a below .500 team. And pacers I think at in the top half in fewest pts in the paint.

    The defense isnt as bad as many of you think
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-28-2009 at 03:52 PM.

  4. #104
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Wouldn't that make them the 20th best with 19 teams better than them?
    oops, never was very good at math - especially this college level stuff. OK 20th it is

    If you just read the comments about the pacers defense in this thread you would think the Pacers were dead last and way last. The defense really isn't that bad. Defensive rebounding I think was 6th best, so add that in as part of the overall defense and really the defense isn't that bad

  5. #105
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I brought this up in the Pacers/Magic Game thread. When I look at the Magic lineup.....I fail to see why they are one of the best Perimeter/3pt defending teams in the league ( they rank Top 3 at home and Top 10 on the road ). Is the difference primarily in the Coaching, defensive scheme or simply due to the fact that they have the most Athletic Big Man that can dominate the Paint on the offensive and Defensive end?

    Although one cannot deny the importance and impact that Howard is to the Low-Post and penetration defense though his shotblocking......the rest of their lineup is made up of PGs/SGs/SFs that I wouldn't consider great overall defenders or even any better then our platoon of PGs/SGs/SFs. At best....they have Pietrus who is an athletic GF that is a solid perimeter Defender...but not the smartest one.

    I don't want to continue to drag this ( or any other ) post towards the typical "It's the Coach" thread.....I'm guessing it's a combination of them all ( Coach, Talent, execution of Defensive scheme ). But assuming that we will be stuck with JO'B for yet another season ( which is entirely possible despite our record ), I'm beginning to wonder if the best thing to do is to simply address the need for a shot-blocker ( something that we lack ) either through the Draft or through FA in the offseason.

    If you're suggesting that the Orlando Magic have the better coach, you would be right. It was the Pacers, afterall, who went after Stan Van Gundy before they went after JOB, so they probably think the Magic have the better coach as well.

    And SVG is the guy who thought the Magic have the better roster than the Pacers. He's the guy who picked them after interviewing with Indy, Sac and Orlando. I'd say he made the right choice.

    As far as getting a real shotblocker, there isn't a team that wouldn't want an in his prime Mutombo. A legit shotblocker who's skilled enough to play more than 20 mins. a game isn't easy to find.

  6. #106
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    I was just pulling your chain a little as well as trying to make a point.

    For one thing, I think the 'layup drill' is a bit of an exaggeration of what would happen plus I think our defenders would adjust at least somewhat and more than our defense as a system as adjusted to its own problems now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Layups are made probably 75% of the time,
    Not if Foster is shooting them!



    The defense isnt as bad as many of you think
    Wide open 3 after wide open 3 and a point differential in favor of the opposition would beg to differ with you.

    -Bball
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  7. #107

    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    Our defensive scheme cheats more than most because many of our players are not good individual defenders. This cheating is easily exposed by 1) teams that pass the ball well (e.g. Utah and San Antonio, 2) teams with a strong inside-out game. (e.g. Orlando)...hence the big losses.

    Really, in both cases the silver bullet is ball movement. Now, ball movement is always a good tool, but against the Pacers it is more lethal and more easily accomplished. That is the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Then switch it up... play more zone sometimes and play more straight up and take our lumps that way for others. The way it is, it's a shootaround for the other team.

    Even go ahead and let a player like Howard have his way as part of the plan and focus our defense on taking his help away.
    Edit: Oh, and the reason this is so is a combination of our personnel and the players JOb puts on the floor. Yes, it is a shared problem.
    Sounds reasonable enough to me.

    Sometimes, you're going to come up against a team that's really strong within the interior (Magic, Lakers, Jazz) or has a very good perimeter game (Magic, Raptors) or has very good slashers (Hornets, Jazz). Rarely will you find a team that has all three (Lakers, Nuggets). At some point you'll have to conceed that you don't have to the tools to negate all three or even two. So, you focus on the opponent's one true strength, e.g., the Magic's perimeter shooting, and stop the rest as best you can.

    The Pacers did a lousy job of defending the Magic's shooters. Honestly, there's no reason for giving up so many uncontested 3pt shots! At some point, coach Obrien has to realize that his cheating scheme exposes our defensive weakness too much. Maybe one solution is not to cheat so much or so close-in to the paint to where you can't recover quickly enough!!

  8. #108
    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    The defense isnt as bad as many of you think
    yes it can be worse than this. who knows may be we allow 150 points instead of 135 once in a while

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    During the 6 games prior to the Orlando game, we had only given up 101 ppg. Everyone on this forum was talking about the improvement in the defense and how we were starting to round into shape. I know that the defense was atrocious last night, but I think it would still be prudent to look at more games rather than less when trying to identify a trend. I would certainly agree with all of you who have serious concerns with the defense, but I still think that last night was an anomaly rather than the norm.
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  10. #110
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    During the 6 games prior to the Orlando game, we had only given up 101 ppg. Everyone on this forum was talking about the improvement in the defense and how we were starting to round into shape. I know that the defense was atrocious last night, but I think it would still be prudent to look at more games rather than less when trying to identify a trend. I would certainly agree with all of you who have serious concerns with the defense, but I still think that last night was an anomaly rather than the norm.
    Well, that successfully knocked out what I was going to say. Thanks a lot.

    Seriously, thanks for this, that's what UB means by "one game" - 6 steps forward 1 step back and suddenly it's like we never had any defensive improvement at all.
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  11. #111
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Not if Foster is shooting them!
    Ouch. True, but... ouch.

    Not only that, but if you aren't already cheating toward the paint, you're pretty likely to give up the And-1 on the layup. Now you've given up three points and put yourself one step closer to foul trouble.

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  12. #112
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tbabyy924 View Post
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    Eddie Jordan.

    At least as a transition to get us back to the playoffs.
    That's exactly who I thought of. He didn't deserve to be fired by Washington. Not sure he would want the Pacers gig though.

    We really need a trade more than anything. I wish we had made a trade for Diop when he was available. Charlotte has really made some good trades this year to transition into a better defensive team. Bird's going to have to do the same at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  13. #113

    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mellifluous View Post
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    During the 6 games prior to the Orlando game, we had only given up 101 ppg. Everyone on this forum was talking about the improvement in the defense and how we were starting to round into shape. I know that the defense was atrocious last night, but I think it would still be prudent to look at more games rather than less when trying to identify a trend. I would certainly agree with all of you who have serious concerns with the defense, but I still think that last night was an anomaly rather than the norm.
    It's not so much that fans here are of the impression that the Pacers have regressed (although, continuously giving up 100+ ppg doesn't convince me that your team defense has drastically improved even if all you've done is reduce that point total from say 115 to 105). Nonetheless, the trend has been identified...cheating the post at the cost of leaving the Wings open.

    Now, against the Rockets and Bobcats, the Pacers recovered to the Wings very quickly. I didn't see nearly as many lapses in recovering during those two games as I did versus the Magic. So, was that a matter of our players being quicker? Was the effort there on those two nights? Or were the Magic's shooters faster "gun slingers" and just got their shots up quicker? Or was it just that our perimeter defense was wrong on this night? As to the blowout last night, my vote is for the latter two!!!

    I sometimes wonder if this team has a defensive floor general? I doubt it because that's suppose to be the role of the Center and when we go small, we only have Murphy on the floor as our Big, and we all know he's not the best interior defender. So, perhaps the problem is nobody's out there truly reading the offense from the defensive end, and the only way we (those on the floor) know something is wrong when a timeout is called and the problems are identified. Usually by then, it's too late; the damage has already been done.

    That's certainly something to consider...
    Last edited by NuffSaid; 01-28-2009 at 05:06 PM.

  14. #114
    Member naptownmenace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    The Pacers did a lousy job of defending the Magic's shooters. Honestly, there's no reason for giving up so many uncontested 3pt shots! At some point, coach Obrien has to realize that his cheating scheme exposes our defensive weakness too much. Maybe one solution is not to cheat so much or so close-in to the paint to where you can't recover quickly enough!!
    This has been a big change from last season. Last season we were one of the best opponent 3pt % teams in the league, IIRC. This scheme has everyone cheating to the paint and I could live with that if they were shutting down the opponents points scored in the paint but they're not. The other team scores at a high percentage against us in the paint. When they don't score we foul them at a very high rate ususally leading to free throws.

    Why not just go to a straight up man-to-man defensive scheme? No doubles, no cheating from the weakside, or up top. Just try and stay in front of your man. Just staying with your man will make it difficult for them to rotate the ball and the number of wide open 3s and 3pt percentage will go down. Giving up 10 more points in the paint would be better than giving the other team 10 plus made 3 pointers.

    But what do I know?
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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  15. #115
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Suggestion for the mods. We may want to merge each of the post game threads into the Fire JOb thread. It might clean-up the site.

    Well, it's January 28th and I've seen enough. Our biggest problem is not putting our best defenders on the floor. Our second biggest problem is our coach's defensive philosophy.

    Those are the things that can be changed most easily. The rest of our problem is personnel related.

  16. #116
    '12 PD Sunshiner awardee Kemo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    poor Hibbert just wasn't skilled enough to know how to handle him for what little time he did play against Howard. And frankly, I doubt Rasho would have faired better.

    I'm sorry bro, but I just don't see your reasoning on Hibbert...

    For 1 , he only played , what? like 5 or 6 minutes in the first half AT MOST..

    He picked up the rest of his minutes after we were done down 18+ points in garbage minutes as I recall ...

    YET

    He played a total of 14.58 minutes .. (mostly garbage minutes, especially after there was no way we could come back) shot 6-10 FGM/A
    2 offensive and 2 defensive Rebounds
    1 Assist
    3 Personal Fouls
    2 Blocked Shots (1 I saw against Howard)
    and
    12 Points


    I think he would have faired better than Murphy at Center against Howard..

    Granted he may have drawn his fouls, but heck let him use em all up..

    It wouldn't have hurt .. lol
    Quote Originally Posted by naptownmenace View Post
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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  17. #117

    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Kemo,

    Well, since you put it that way...

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