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Thread: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince Neil View Post
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    This coming from you of all people?
    Yep.

  2. #77

    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    while he is at it why not start diener ford and jack together, that sounds like a lot of fun

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Good to see no one is overreacting to one game
    LMAO, if only it WAS just one game.....

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MiaDragon View Post
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    LMAO, if only it WAS just one game.....
    Exactly.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Since86 View Post
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    Again, please bother. These one line snipits are cutting it.

    One game? Seriously, like these complaints that people have been saying just started last night?

    The same problems we had with the defense over a month ago are still very visible. This isn't a one game reaction, this is a reaction to the crap we've been seeing throughout the season.

    The same things over and over and over again that you keep telling us will work, and how good of a coach JOb is.

    There is zero improvement from well over a month ago on the defensive end. None.

    No matter how much fun scoring is, losing is worse (or atleast it should be). Scoring 160pts in a losing effort is not fun. Scoring 200pts in a losing effort is not fun.
    I'll take up for Uncle Buck here.

    We have seen a healthy improvement in our winning percentage since Dun returned.

    Dun had a bad game last night. It happens.

    We got drilled by a superior team last night. It happens.

    Is our defense suspect? Yeah. Has it had some good moments? Yeah.

    I don't think we should get so serious about calling for JOB's head until we've seen the real returns of his coaching with a healthy Dunleavy, as well as a healthy Quis and Ford.

    If you don't see serious improvement 20 games from now with a healthy Dun then there is more reason to carp. Until then, I think it's fair to observe the better winning trend and remain seated to the chair during the inevitable losses and once-in-a-while routes.

    We are 4-3 in the last seven games.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Why bother - no comment
    Agreed.

    With one addition: I can see why we went small. No one on our roster can guard Howard. If you play Troy at C, as opposed to Jeff or Roy or Rasho, you at least pull Howard away from the basket on offense which gives our guards and forwards a chance to score in the paint. Also, we have no PF on this team who can either guard Rashard Lewis or post him up with any regularity. Sliding Troy down to PF or having Jeff on him wouldn't have yielded any better results.

    The only starting decision I disagreed with was starting Jack. I like JJ, but I'd have rather seen Daniels starting alongside Dun & Danny. Actually, I'd rather have seen Rush starting, but we all know that's not going to happen.
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  7. #82
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    When did I ever stop?
    I stopped when he was hired. I didn't think it was a good hire then. I haven't changed my mind.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    the most dominate big man in the game
    "Dominate" is a verb. "Dominant" is an adjective.

    Dwight can DOMINATE the game because he is a DOMINANT big man.


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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham Mernatsi View Post
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    "Dominate" is a verb. "Dominant" is an adjective.

    Dwight can DOMINATE the game because he is a DOMINANT big man.

    You are a PD grammar police virgin.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Good to see no one is overreacting to one game

    It's not one game that people are overreacting to. It's the fact that we're 17-28 and our defense appears to be getting worse instead of better.

    The game was over before it started last night when we went small. Not that we ever really had a chance to beat Orlando anyway.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Good to see no one is overreacting to one game
    One game? Come on UB you're better than that.

    The team is giving up 107 ppg and is 17-28. Honestly, I thought you of all people would be tired of this defense by now.

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  12. #87
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    I'll take up for Uncle Buck here.

    We have seen a healthy improvement in our winning percentage since Dun returned.

    Dun had a bad game last night. It happens.

    We got drilled by a superior team last night. It happens.

    Is our defense suspect? Yeah. Has it had some good moments? Yeah.

    I don't think we should get so serious about calling for JOB's head until we've seen the real returns of his coaching with a healthy Dunleavy, as well as a healthy Quis and Ford.

    If you don't see serious improvement 20 games from now with a healthy Dun then there is more reason to carp. Until then, I think it's fair to observe the better winning trend and remain seated to the chair during the inevitable losses and once-in-a-while routes.

    We are 4-3 in the last seven games.
    I didn't really see our defense improving with Dunleavy's return. I just saw our offense have another option. We've still blown leads in the 4th, only in one case Dun made a smart play... on offense... to help make the mountain a little higher for the opposition.

    Giving up 135 points, in regulation even, is just never acceptable in my book. And it's not the first time we've given up 130+ points this season either.

    Somebody mentioned the look on OBrien's face at one point last night. It was probably an expression of wondering how he could get some more scoring in the game.

    I was willing to accept that maybe TPTB had dictated a high scoring team in order to win back some fans but going small ball against Orlando, leaving 3 point shooters uncovered, and trying to guard Dwight Howard with Murphy? That's a one game (bad) coaching move, not an order from Mount Conseco to score points first. Plus, even if there's an order to score points, it doesn't mean you leave a non-functioning defense intact and ignore the problems.

    Would OBrien's problems be masked with a more talented team? Yes... at some point of talent upgrades I'm sure they would... But this also shows us here and now that OBrien couldn't maximize that more talented team any more than he can this one.

    He served a purpose and that is helping to transition from the JO Diva, ego-driven, and undisciplined (on and off the court) Pacers to a team with some character and pride in the game as well as given them some confidence in their offensive abilities. But he's totally dropped the ball on developing anything of note to think things will be any different in the future. "No defense" is a losing proposition. You can't simply outscore your opponents. If you have a leaky boat, no matter how nice it is, if you don't address that leak eventually you sink.

    OBrien is in the 4th quarter of his Pacer tenure and he's down considerably. The clock is ticking.
    Last edited by Bball; 01-28-2009 at 03:53 PM.
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    I brought this up in the Pacers/Magic Game thread. When I look at the Magic lineup.....I fail to see why they are one of the best Perimeter/3pt defending teams in the league ( they rank Top 3 at home and Top 10 on the road ). Is the difference primarily in the Coaching, defensive scheme or simply due to the fact that they have the most Athletic Big Man that can dominate the Paint on the offensive and Defensive end?

    Although one cannot deny the importance and impact that Howard is to the Low-Post and penetration defense though his shotblocking......the rest of their lineup is made up of PGs/SGs/SFs that I wouldn't consider great overall defenders or even any better then our platoon of PGs/SGs/SFs. At best....they have Pietrus who is an athletic GF that is a solid perimeter Defender...but not the smartest one.

    I don't want to continue to drag this ( or any other ) post towards the typical "It's the Coach" thread.....I'm guessing it's a combination of them all ( Coach, Talent, execution of Defensive scheme ). But assuming that we will be stuck with JO'B for yet another season ( which is entirely possible despite our record ), I'm beginning to wonder if the best thing to do is to simply address the need for a shot-blocker ( something that we lack ) either through the Draft or through FA in the offseason.
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  14. #89
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Good to see no one is overreacting to one game
    One game?!?!?!?!? Take the pom poms off.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Good to see no one is overreacting to one game
    one game?

    if it was just one game, we would be sitting above .500 and a lock for the playoffs.

    problem is, we're not. our defense sucks beyond belief and has cost us many many games when our shooting goes cold.

    as a team, we're number 1 in the eastern conference in points per game, rebounds per game, and assists per game. number 2 in the east in FT%. we're in the top half in FG% and 3PT %. very impressive figures.

    so why are we 14th in the eastern conference standings?

    you don't dominate every offensive NBA category yet have one of the worst records unless your defense is of the WNBA caliber.

    if we continue to give up 106.9 points per game, we'll set an eastern conference record for opponents PPG in a season. Quite a feat........except for the fact that we'd be breaking our own record, which we set last year at 105.4. Coincidentally the year JOB was hired.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I didn't really see our defense improving with Dunleavy's return. I just saw our offense have another option. We've still blown leads in the 4th, only in one case Dun made a smart play... on offense... to help make the mountain a little higher for the opposition.
    I agree that Dunleavy's return hasn't produced a significant impact on the defensive end....but I do not think that he severely negatively impacts the defense and ( at most ) the impact ( if there is any ) would be considered neglible.

    I would only add that I think that Marquis' return has had a far greater impact to the defense then anything. Again, to be fair, I'm going to hold judgement until I can see Marquis and Dunelavy does after a few more games on the defensive end and how it impacts the Team as a whole ( both has only been in the lineup together for 3 games only ). As most of us has noted....this defense is predicated on the Team as a whole understanding and properly implementing the defense....both of which are skills that Dunleavy and Marquis bring to the table.
    Last edited by CableKC; 01-28-2009 at 04:08 PM.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by purdue101 View Post
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    if we continue to give up 106.9 points per game, we'll set an eastern conference record for opponents PPG in a season. Quite a feat........except for the fact that we'd be breaking our own record, which we set last year at 105.4. Coincidentally the year JOB was hired.
    That right there about says it all for me.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    let me rephrase.....the record was over the past 10 years......you get my point though.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam1987 View Post
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    It's not one game that people are overreacting to. It's the fact that we're 17-28 and our defense appears to be getting worse instead of better.

    The game was over before it started last night when we went small. Not that we ever really had a chance to beat Orlando anyway.


    The defense has been better lately - I see definite improvement since Jeff has been starting and since Dun has been back.

    Funny how everyone is blaming the small lineup for the loss - as soon as I saw the starting lineup I thought to myself - oh no if we lose by 1 point in triple OT many will blame the small lineup.

    In fact the pacers only trailed by 1 point when they made their first substitution last night - so it wasn't the starting lineup that killed us

    There are ten NBA teams that are worse defensively than the Pacers.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-28-2009 at 04:32 PM.

  20. #95

    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    Has anyone got anything positive to say about the game?
    No, not really. I mean, the game was lost before getting midway in the 2Q. All my boyz could do from that point on is pray and hope they could keep the deficit near 20 points.
    Defense Defense Defense. Nothing frustrates me like bad basketball and 'no defense' is bad basketball. The coaching staff is putting these players in a position to fail by not addressing this. ....'No defense' and 'small ball' equally frustrate me (but then the two also go hand in hand usually).
    I didn't mind the small ball tactic because it made sense. You want to pull The Beast (Dwight Howard) out from the paint and force him to work at both ends of the court. Problem is when Murphy wasn't making his shots or driving inside and forcing Howard to adjust it negated that game plan. And we all know Foster's not an offensive threat and poor Hibbert just wasn't skilled enough to know how to handle him for what little time he did play against Howard. And frankly, I doubt Rasho would have faired better.

    Still, I share you frustrations in this one area: defending the Wings! (SCREAMING!!!! ) I could NOT believe the number of times Murphy, Quis, Graham and even Granger at times left Pietrus and Lewis open on the Wings!! There's just no way they should be cheating that much towards the paint knowing how good Orlando's shooters are. They were just asking to get burned last night. Frankly, there's just no excuse for that - NONE!!!!

    Dwight's going to get his; let him even if it means you defending him as solid as you could but he still beat you down. Dwight's like a slimmer version of Shaq in his youth. You're just NOT going to stop him. He's too strong! But the Pacers COULD have limited the Magic's perimeter shooting if they had just found the open man (which even my wife, who has just started to under the game of basketball at the NBA level, was able to spot long before the Magic's offense had fully developed on some plays. Heck, she even rewound a few plays and pointed some things out I missed!!!! She's becoming quite good at that. )

    Pacers' perimeter defense was absolutely terrible last night, and there's really no excuse for it whatsoever.

  21. #96
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    http://www.basketballreference.com/l...m?lg=N&yr=1986

    I was gonna say, it really wasn't that long ago that the league champion averaged 118 per game, and was considered a solid defensive team at 109 per game. You guys keep confusing slow pace with good defense, and its false.

    UB can also point out that in '86-87, the three best teams were the leaders in defense FG%: the Lakers were #6, Boston was #5, and the Pistons were #3.
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  22. #97

    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CableKC View Post
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    I agree that Dunleavy's return hasn't produced a significant impact on the defensive end....but I do not think that he severely negatively impacts the defense and ( at most ) the impact ( if there is any ) would be considered neglible.

    I would only add that I think that Marquis' return has had a far greater impact to the defense then anything. Again, to be fair, I'm going to hold judgement until I can see Marquis and Dunelavy does after a few more games on the defensive end and how it impacts the Team as a whole ( both has only been in the lineup together for 3 games only ). As most of us has noted....this defense is predicated on the Team as a whole understanding and properly implementing the defense....both of which are skills that Dunleavy and Marquis bring to the table.
    I think the team defense has improved somewhat since both Dun and Quis have returned. The problem as I see it - and I agree w/Bball on this - is the Pacers cheat too much in trying to cover the paint to limit dribble penetration along the baseline. I say STOP THE MADNESS!

    They either need to stay in a 2-3 Zone OR stay in Man-D, the latter I'd go with. Granted, the Pacers don't have many 1-on-1 defenders (Granger & Quis are our best options here), but if you can put a hand in the shooter's face just as he catches the ball or force him to take a bad shot BECAUSE you were in the right defensive position to disrupt the shooting motion, well, you've done your job. I didn't see that happen until very late in the 4Q when the game was clearly well out of reach.

    Our Defensive Coordinator needs to take cheating towards the paint completely out of the equation. It's hurting this team rather than helping.

  23. #98
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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    http://www.basketballreference.com/l...m?lg=N&yr=1986

    I was gonna say, it really wasn't that long ago that the league champion averaged 118 per game, and was considered a solid defensive team at 109 per game. You guys keep confusing slow pace with good defense, and its false.

    UB can also point out that in '86-87, the three best teams were the leaders in defense FG%: the Lakers were #6, Boston was #5, and the Pistons were #3.
    Thank you. There are 10 NBA teams that are worse in defensive FG%. So pacers are 20th best defensive team in the NBA. Not as good as I would like, but not as bad as many seem to think
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-28-2009 at 04:54 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NuffSaid View Post
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    Our Defensive Coordinator needs to take cheating towards the paint completely out of the equation. It's hurting this team rather than helping.
    I wouldn't do that unless you are prepared to give up layup after layup. Pacers dont have a shot blocker, so they have to flood the lane or it will be a layup drill

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    Default Re: Pacers at Magic Postgame thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    There are ten NBA teams that are worse defensively than the Pacers.


    Which means almost 2/3 of the NBA teams are BETTER!

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