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Thread: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Hurts to say it like that.

    I don't have anything special to add, but I figured someone should note the halfway point.
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    On pace to win 30 games.

    Ouch.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Things will change little until Bird and JO'B change the style of playing run n gun with little "D". They hold the key to change. Even with a full healthy roster back, little will change. Any grandiose ideas they had at the being of the season of making the playoffs has been lost. Without changing the system, that is obviously flawed, where do they go next year? For their sake, they had best hope the turnstiles and Simons agree with their system.

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    I would be shocked (barring major injuries) if they don't win 20 games in the second half of the season - which would give them 35 wins which is about right for this team.

    I am not upset, it doesn't really hurt - this team is what it is -

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I would be shocked (barring major injuries) if they don't win 20 games in the second half of the season - which would give them 35 wins which is about right for this team.
    I was looking for the preseason prediction thtread but can't find it. Can anyone link/bump?
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    I feel okay. I'm not upset...yet.

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Things will change little until Bird and JO'B change the style of playing run n gun with little "D". They hold the key to change. Even with a full healthy roster back, little will change. Any grandiose ideas they had at the being of the season of making the playoffs has been lost. Without changing the system, that is obviously flawed, where do they go next year? For their sake, they had best hope the turnstiles and Simons agree with their system.


    Opinions vary !!

    I would rather be the hammer than the nail

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    unfortunate...but if there is any team that deserves some nba draft karma, its the pacers. hopefully we can luck out like the Bulls and Spurs.

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I would be shocked (barring major injuries) if they don't win 20 games in the second half of the season - which would give them 35 wins which is about right for this team.

    I am not upset, it doesn't really hurt - this team is what it is -
    It'll hurt if/when we finish 9th in the East again.

    How are we supposed to get any better with average draft picks and no playoff experience every year?
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by nerveghost View Post
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    unfortunate...but if there is any team that deserves some nba draft karma, its the pacers. hopefully we can luck out like the Bulls and Spurs.
    Yeah, approximately 24 years of draft karma.
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I would be shocked (barring major injuries) if they don't win 20 games in the second half of the season - which would give them 35 wins which is about right for this team.

    I am not upset, it doesn't really hurt - this team is what it is -
    Vegas had us at 35.5 wins for the season.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    I was looking for the preseason prediction thtread but can't find it. Can anyone link/bump?
    Here it is

    http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-...ad.php?t=41942

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    It'll hurt if/when we finish 9th in the East again.

    How are we supposed to get any better with average draft picks and no playoff experience every year?
    that is been my question for the last 2 years

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Well, you have the whole team now, mostly, they have been almost there on almost every night. I still think they could really make a push to make the playoffs. They seem to get a little better every week.

    Two nice wins against Detroit and Toronto really are pretty big, imho.

    Also, I'll mention again about those last 14 games and how they are really set up to make a run. I think they'll go 10-4 those last 14, if healthy. That will be a big push for a playoff spot, if they do.

    I just look at where they were at to start the season and where they are now and it's a pretty big difference.

    Biggest positive changes.

    -Granger is your go to guy, no question. He's a top player in the league and worth every penny they are paying him. DG has been such a bright spot for this team; I shudder to think where they would be if he wasn't the gift.

    -The offense is fun to watch and effective. (really the whole NBA is much much more pleasant to watch, not because of the increased scoring, but the team play, period.)

    -Guys play unselfishly, you really get the feeling that they just want to win and the culture is clearly changed (even though Murphy can be a rebound vulture at times )

    -Dunleavy plays and makes others around him better without effecting Grangers scoring, so far.

    -I'm pleased with the youngsters for the future. I know many are down on them, but I really feel like all 3 have shown enough that they have a real baseline to improve on for next year and seasons after.

    -You know Nesto isn't more than what you thought. This is important because you can basically let him go without much regret, unless he'll play for what he is worth.

    -Marquis is a little more difficult, but I still think you let him drop off as well, since his team option is more than what he's worth.

    -You know what the teams needs and it is what you thought it was. A low post defensive player with some semblence of a low post game would be nice.

    -Murphy is nice to have around, he's really playing like I had hoped when they traded for him, now with the need for a low post guy it sounds like he needs to go, not at all. He's a unique type player who really has had a nice year.

    The Negatives so far.

    -TJ isn't the answer that I thought he would be, he's inconsistent and struggles to maintain his health with that size frame, imho.

    -Jarret isn't the answer he's hardnosed and been a nice defensive player, but not a stopper and a detriment more than a positive at the end of games.

    -Roy will never be a dominant defensive center (I knew this, but I had hoped for more in the future).

    -Beating a dead horse-the defense scheme sucks, I think we have enough evidence to say it that clearly.



    Overall, this first half of the season has been a really nice step towards getting better and finally turning the page on some of the darkest years in Pacers history. If you look at where they have came in the last 2 years, it's really impressive. If you just look at the record so far, it looks bad (by itself), but you really have to look at the whole picture.

    There are no easy fixes out there or there rarely is.

    For those of you who want to scrap the whole thing after every loss, I feel ya. But those are the type of things that cause problems, not fix them.
    Last edited by Speed; 01-20-2009 at 10:40 AM.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Nice Speed - I agree with you - unlike most others, I think the first half of the season has been fun to watch and I have seen a lot of growth team-wise and player-wise. Being in all these close games is really good for this team

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Wow. Looks like I may have been wildly optimistic with my prediction of 36 wins.
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed View Post
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    Well, you have the whole team now, mostly, they have been almost there on almost every night. I still think they could really make a push to make the playoffs. They seem to get a little better every week.

    Two nice wins against Detroit and Toronto really are pretty big, imho.

    Also, I'll mention again about those last 14 games and how they are really set up to make a run. I think they'll go 10-4 those last 14, if healthy. That will be a big push for a playoff spot, if they do.

    I just look at where they were at to start the season and where they are now and it's a pretty big difference.

    Biggest positive changes.

    -Granger is your go to guy, no question. He's a top player in the league and worth every penny they are paying him. DG has been such a bright spot for this team; I shudder to think where they would be if he wasn't the gift.

    -The offense is fun to watch and effective. (really the whole NBA is much much more pleasant to watch, not because of the increased scoring, but the team play, period.)

    -Guys play unselfishly, you really get the feeling that they just want to win and the culture is clearly changed (even though Murphy can be a rebound vulture at times )

    -Dunleavy plays and makes others around him better without effecting Grangers scoring, so far.

    -I'm pleased with the youngsters for the future. I know many are down on them, but I really feel like all 3 have shown enough that they have a real baseline to improve on for next year and seasons after.

    -You know Nesto isn't more than what you thought. This is important because you can basically let him go without much regret, unless he'll play for what he is worth.

    -Marquis is a little more difficult, but I still think you let him drop off as well, since his team option is more than what he's worth.

    -You know what the teams needs and it is what you thought it was. A low post defensive player with some semblence of a low post game would be nice.

    -Murphy is nice to have around, he's really playing like I had hoped when they traded for him, now with the need for a low post guy it sounds like he needs to go, not at all. He's a unique type player who really has had a nice year.

    The Negatives so far.

    -TJ isn't the answer that I thought he would be, he's inconsistent and struggles to maintain his health with that size frame, imho.

    -Jarret isn't the answer he's hardnosed and been a nice defensive player, but not a stopper and a detriment more than a positive at the end of games.

    -Roy will never be a dominant defensive center (I knew this, but I had hoped for more in the future).

    -Beating a dead horse-the defense scheme sucks, I think we have enough evidence to say it that clearly.



    Overall, this first half of the season has been a really nice step towards getting better and finally turning the page on some of the darkest years in Pacers history. If you look at where they have came in the last 2 years, it's really impressive. If you just look at the record so far, it looks bad (by itself), but you really have to look at the whole picture.

    There are no easy fixes out there or there rarely is.

    For those of you who want to scrap the whole thing after every loss, I feel ya. But those are the type of things that cause problems, not fix them.
    I agree with most of this. I'm still not quite sure what to think of TJ Ford. he has looked great at times but his inconsistency is concerning, and this nagging back injury is the kind of thing that seems to linger. I would like to see him get healthy.

    I am fine with Jack as the backup but Obrien WAY overuses him, as far as Im concerned he should not be there late in games... he has a tendency to go 1 on 5 and throw up a horrendous shot or rediculous pass/turnover at the absolute worst times.

    If we make the playoffs it will be because the PG play picks up in quality. If that does not happen, as much as people harp about a PF, I would be looking at Ty Lawson in this draft... and we would probably be in range to get him...

    I think this team wins 35-41 games, and those extra 5 or 6 will be the key to making the playoffs if it is at all possible. 35 is probably most realistic.
    Last edited by Infinite MAN_force; 01-20-2009 at 10:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    We are 5-9 in games decided by three points or less. Which is about right considering our 15-26 record. That is one third of our games decided by three points or less. That is great basketball to watch. Even if we have come out on the losing end of too many close ones.

    I am hopeful that we can win 21 of our last 41, meaning that we are over .500 to end the year. I just want this team to define who are our core players over the rest of the season and put a priority on them progressing.

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    I think, as hard as it is for those die-hard fans who frequent the Digest to understand, the most important thing about this season is that the city perceives the Pacers as a hard-nosed team full of guys who work at the game and conduct themselves properly. Yeah, they aren't that good, but they don't let it stop them.

    That doesn't immediately translate into attendance figures without adding wins, but it absolutely has changed the visibility (and, one would hope, the subsequent sale) of Pacers merchandise. It increases the perception of team support on the street. It builds fans who are beginning to see that the team is "fun to watch" and who are willing to show up once or twice.

    Like it or not, this season is accomplishing exactly what TPTB want - to work their way back into the hearts of the city. I have to say that, while the crowds may be smaller than desired, they are by far more into the game by the end of the 4th quarter than they have been in a long time.

    Playing the rookies lots of minutes would be somewhat counterproductive for that goal. If we were losing games by 15 instead of 2-3, would there be so much buzz about the team being "fun to watch"?

    Add to that the fact that I haven't seen anyone in this year's draft who is a "must have" for the Pacers, and I think we're going in the right direction.

    Put the best product for TODAY on the floor, look at our options at the deadline, make changes over the summer. Meanwhile, have fun and get the community involved.
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillS View Post
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    I think, as hard as it is for those die-hard fans who frequent the Digest to understand, the most important thing about this season is that the city perceives the Pacers as a hard-nosed team full of guys who work at the game and conduct themselves properly. Yeah, they aren't that good, but they don't let it stop them.

    That doesn't immediately translate into attendance figures without adding wins, but it absolutely has changed the visibility (and, one would hope, the subsequent sale) of Pacers merchandise. It increases the perception of team support on the street. It builds fans who are beginning to see that the team is "fun to watch" and who are willing to show up once or twice.

    Like it or not, this season is accomplishing exactly what TPTB want - to work their way back into the hearts of the city. I have to say that, while the crowds may be smaller than desired, they are by far more into the game by the end of the 4th quarter than they have been in a long time.

    Playing the rookies lots of minutes would be somewhat counterproductive for that goal. If we were losing games by 15 instead of 2-3, would there be so much buzz about the team being "fun to watch"?

    Add to that the fact that I haven't seen anyone in this year's draft who is a "must have" for the Pacers, and I think we're going in the right direction.

    Put the best product for TODAY on the floor, look at our options at the deadline, make changes over the summer. Meanwhile, have fun and get the community involved.
    Gold. Well said.

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    We are 5-9 in games decided by three points or less. Which is about right considering our 15-26 record. That is one third of our games decided by three points or less. That is great basketball to watch. Even if we have come out on the losing end of too many close ones.

    I am hopeful that we can win 21 of our last 41, meaning that we are over .500 to end the year. I just want this team to define who are our core players over the rest of the season and put a priority on them progressing.
    I'm not even worried about the close games the Pacers have lost to the good teams in the league. The disappointing thing about the 15-26 record are the losses to sub-.500 teams.

    We've lost close games to the Bucks, Heat, Clippers, Warriors, Grizzlies, Bulls, and Raptors. If we had just won 5 of those games our record would be 20-21. That's the major flaw in this team, IMO. They are competitive but they don't play any better against the lesser teams in the league.

    That worries me because in the last 41 games of this season they play 23 games against teams with sub-500 records. If they just take care of those teams they could end up with 38 wins by the end of the season. However, if they continue to play down to those teams of comparable talent, they could end up with less than 30 wins.

    They have a good opportunity to really show what they are made of the rest of the season. It should be interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81
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    Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.
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    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacergod2 View Post
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    We are 5-9 in games decided by three points or less. Which is about right considering our 15-26 record. That is one third of our games decided by three points or less. That is great basketball to watch. Even if we have come out on the losing end of too many close ones.
    i disagree. seeing the team making stupid mistakes over and over again is nowhere near fun.

    halfway in the season and the only thing that makes me happy is having granger. this run n gun basketball is worthless and i hope at least we get rid of JOB at the end of the season. it is obvious we won't be going anywhere with this mentality.

    mike is good offensively but on defense he's like the rest of the team.

    tj is ok when healthy but he's too fragile and inconsistent.

    jack i don't even wanna talk about him.

    there's only one 'i go out and shoot 3's' big guy in nba that i like and his name isn't murphy. he's a great rebounder but defense is the question.

    quis and rasho won't be playing for us next year imo. i'm disappointed in rasho btw. i was expecting more from him.

    foster well he's still on this team because he's foster. he takes away much more than he brings.

    and the most depressing thing is we have two rookies that can't play even for a 15 win team like us and these guys are our future.

    i thought that we have a bright future and i still do but not that bright anymore i guess.

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    ...I'm still not quite sure what to think of TJ Ford. he has looked great at times but his inconsistency is concerning, and this nagging back injury is the kind of thing that seems to linger. I would like to see him get healthy.

    I am fine with Jack as the backup but Obrien WAY overuses him, as far as Im concerned he should not be there late in games... he has a tendency to go 1 on 5 and throw up a horrendous shot or rediculous pass/turnover at the absolute worst times.

    If we make the playoffs it will be because the PG play picks up in quality.
    I liked Speed's post as well.

    I think you make a very good point regarding PG play. The biggest thing that I see is that our PGs probably try to force too much action and penetration in that last minute of play. Better decisions from our PGs would probably result in a few more wins.

    TJ is inconsistent... sometimes his penetration works if he has a distinct quickness advantage over his opponent. But just as often, he (and Jack for that matter) find themselves trapped in the lane or on the baseline with nowhere to go. Even worse, Jack seems to get airborn without a plan. All of these problems seem to be even worse when we are in the last minute or two of play.

    I agree with others that our defense sucks. We have problems with the defensive talent we have and we can't seem to get the important stops when we need them. Since we are one of the highest scoring teams, I conclude that it is our defense (or lack thereof) that is losing the close games for us.

    Our talent level is not changing, so maybe we should mix up our defense a little to assure that all players are covered, at least over the last couple of minutes of games. This may expose us to mismatches, but at least all players will be covered. Since we are losing far more of the close games than we win, I don't see how mixing up our defensive schemes late in games can cause us to lose even more of the close games than we are already losing.
    Last edited by beast23; 01-20-2009 at 01:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Hey, good find. That's a very interesting read.

    This is what I said, that I still think is realistic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Wow. If we are above .500 at Christmas, I'll post youtube video of me eating my hat.

    I expect us to be pretty rough until the ASB, with a late-season push for the playoffs (against tanking opponents) that gets us close to .500 by season's end.
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  25. #25
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Halfway through the season. 15-26.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    Hey, good find. That's a very interesting read.

    This is what I said, that I still think is realistic:
    Yeah but...
    Was that with any thought to how many close games we'd lose and with a player sniffing on an All-Star appearance?

    If it was... congratulations so far. If not (which I suspect is the case), then wouldn't you say there's a problem?

    IMHO we've shown we are ahead of schedule in some aspects but have a critical flaw in others.

    That flaw is of course Jim OBrien's reluctance or inability to emphasize defense 'first'...

    "Offense put the O in OBrien"
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    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

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