Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

  1. #1
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,613

    Default Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Isn't it funny that right when Brown left/after he left that suddenly the Bobcats are able to get their top pick from last year onto the floor, even in a winning effort.


    I know that Henderson has more interest to me since I scouted him favorably, but the reason for the thread is to point out that what was speculation - Brown needlessly keeps young players off the court - has been validated with his departure. A little "told you so" on my part I'll admit...and of course he might suck it up and prove that he wasn't a good pick too.




    Obviously this might be seen to apply to JOB/Jo****yler/etc but that's not why I posted it. It's simply interesting to me to see proof that what one coach thinks is right is not always what another coach or his GM thinks is right.

    It's funny to see how certain player/coach combos just don't go well, yet the player can get paired up with another coach or team and flourish. Henderson may or may not pan out, but at least now he's getting a chance to prove himself.

    Maybe Jalen Rose can send him a "welcome to the club" card.

  2. #2
    Member Dr. Awesome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    3,868

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    We'll see who told who once he sucks it up. ;-)



  3. #3
    B U T L E R..U a Bulldog!
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Basketball heartland
    Posts
    1,995

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Whatever happened to player coaches?

  4. #4
    Member Trophy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    8,556

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    There's plenty of guys here who needed to be freed from Jim's doghouse.

    We'd be a better team with Josh and Tyler in a PF rotation getting consistent minutes.

    DC is our guy and is going to be a well known star. He's going to be big for this team in the future, but Jim holds him back.

    Danny, Roy, and DC will be our big 3 of the future and get this team back to the playoffs.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Trophy For This Useful Post:


  6. #5
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,286

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacersalltheway10 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Whatever happened to player coaches?
    I believe that one of the past CBA's did away with this.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  7. #6

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Gerald Henderson is a poor man's Dahntay Jones.

  8. #7
    #RiseOfTheKing imbtyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Nashville, IN
    Posts
    1,630
    Mood

    Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by Trophy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There's plenty of guys here who needed to be freed from Jim's doghouse.

    We'd be a better team with Josh and Tyler in a PF rotation getting consistent minutes.

    DC is our guy and is going to be a well known star. He's going to be big for this team in the future, but Jim holds him back.

    Danny, Roy, and DC will be our big 3 of the future and get this team back to the playoffs.
    And Paul can (and will, eventually) develop into our Tracy McSixthman. If we give him more than 2 minutes per game (which I was still grateful he received tonight), he'll get the feel of the offense, just like everyone else. Besides "poor" coaching, our issue could be related to having such an overpacked roster. Once (if) it becomes a little less convoluted, playing time won't have to be as sporadically distributed as it is now.
    witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

    Quote Originally Posted by Day-V View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slick Pinkham View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Our arena, their arena, Rucker park, it just doesn't matter. We're bigger, longer, younger, faster, and hungrier.



  9. #8
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    27
    Posts
    5,204

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Gerald Henderson is a poor man's Dahntay Jones.
    I'm shocked you would think that.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  10. #9
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,613

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Gerald Henderson is a poor man's Dahntay Jones.
    Well that's a complete misread of his game. Even if he's less talented (he isn't), his game was about scoring which was justified because he also was willing to play defense. He was not a defender that could score enough for his position.

    I ranked him high because he had both turn around and on the move jumpers as well as the ability to drive in traffic and finish with dunks. The fact that he also was willing to get after it on defense and can block shots at the SG spot made him a very attractive pick.


    Larry Brown's opinion of him was 355 minutes all of last season and before he was fired he'd played him 176 minutes this year.

    Per Bobcats game that was 4:20 last year and 6:30 this year.

    In the 6 games since then Henderson has played 148 minutes, or 25 minutes per Bobcats game (he's played in all 6).


    Larry Brown is a genius and recognizes a lack of talent, right? Well last year and this year Brown's record was 53-57. Paul Silas, going without Gerald Wallace, has started 4-2. Admittedly the wins are all against weaker teams but one of those was over a Wizards team that just before Brown was fired had beat them by 33 points.

    Henderson has not scorched the NBA in his first 6 games, but at least Silas is looking at him and giving their top pick a chance to develop.

    This just resulted in Henderson going 8-11 for 19 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists and 3 blocks.

    This represented not only the most minutes he's ever been given in an NBA game (40), but the most points, rebounds and blocks he's had.


    Henderson's games last year of 5 FGA or more (3PM)
    3-7 (0)
    3-8 (2)
    3-6 (0)
    5-9 (1)
    1-5 (0)
    3-7 (0)
    6-9 (0)

    When given a chance to get even slightly warm Henderson shot 47% (50% eFG).

    This year, same thing
    3-7 (0)
    3-5 (0)
    50% (50%)

    Those 2 games were his two highest minutes all year with Brown, 20 and 19 minutes). Last year he got 20+ minutes 4 times, the high being 25 on opening night vs Boston (he went 3-7), and 23 minutes Nov 25th (5-9 with one 3PM).


    So here you have a high draft pick that performs every time he's given a chance. And I know many of you will love the fact that he's stuck on the bench because Brown wants to run Jackson 40 minutes a night.

    Silas takes over and Henderson gets these minutes
    28
    3
    22
    22
    33
    40

    He's shooting 51% overall in those games (no 3PM).

    He has 3 total TOs in those games vs 4 steals and 5 blocks.

    In 3 of the games his rebounds hit 5, 6 and 9.

    And again the team has gone 4-2.




    WHY DO YOU CARE?
    Well for me it's obviously partially personal since he was a draft target for me and I scouted him very well. Since I've been amateur scouting I've started following all these kids.

    But it's also a mirror image of what is going on with the Pacers as I mentioned when I started this thread. If star coach Larry Brown can irrationally, incorrectly hold a high draft pick on the bench when the results suggest he should be turning to him, the it's clear that JOB could also be wrong.

    Just because guys don't play doesn't mean they stink. Sometimes it has to do with coaching.

    After all do you really trust a coach that played Troy Murphy 36 minutes when a bad Nets team can barely tolerate to have him come off the bench at all, and that's even when they don't use Derrick Favors either.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-09-2011 at 03:59 PM.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Naptown_Seth For This Useful Post:


  12. #10
    Stay focused SMosley21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Going the distance
    Age
    30
    Posts
    2,496

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    In those games since Paul Silas took over, if you take away the 19 point game he's scored a total of 28 points in 5 games. That's around 5.5 points per, his season average is 4.2. Not much of a difference if you ask me. How about we check back after 20 or so games and see if there's much of a difference?
    Grown Man Ball

  13. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    923

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    This thread is absurdly premature. One game against a bad defensive team doesn't validate much. I know people can have games where everything goes in because I watched the Pacers drop 50 in one quarter. That quarter doesn't validate Larry Bird as a great GM, JOB as a great coach, or Dunleavy as a great player.

    But I know you know this.

    I guess its worthwhile pointing out that he finally had his shiny game, where you can glimpse his potential, rather than watching him look terrible in 8 minutes 40 games in a season. Still, you're going out on a limb here.

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to judicata For This Useful Post:


  15. #12
    Stay focused SMosley21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Going the distance
    Age
    30
    Posts
    2,496

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This thread is absurdly premature. One game against a bad defensive team doesn't validate much. I know people can have games where everything goes in because I watched the Pacers drop 50 in one quarter. That quarter doesn't validate Larry Bird as a great GM, JOB as a great coach, or Dunleavy as a great player.

    But I know you know this.

    I guess its worthwhile pointing out that he finally had his shiny game, where you can glimpse his potential, rather than watching him look terrible in 8 minutes 40 games in a season. Still, you're going out on a limb here.

    Exactly. I once saw Shawne Williams drop 19 in a Pacers uniform... once.
    Grown Man Ball

  16. #13
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Downtown baby
    Posts
    12,613

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by judicata View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    This thread is absurdly premature. One game against a bad defensive team doesn't validate much. I know people can have games where everything goes in because I watched the Pacers drop 50 in one quarter. That quarter doesn't validate Larry Bird as a great GM, JOB as a great coach, or Dunleavy as a great player.

    But I know you know this.

    I guess its worthwhile pointing out that he finally had his shiny game, where you can glimpse his potential, rather than watching him look terrible in 8 minutes 40 games in a season. Still, you're going out on a limb here.
    A bump just for Judicata and SMosley to have a 2nd try at reading.

    What I wrote was that Henderson had been incorrectly held on the bench when he seemed capable enough for a rookie and should be getting a standard level of developmental minutes (ie, 15-20 per night) for a high draft pick. I said that this was further reinforced by the fact that he had an inefficient shooter getting 40 minutes a night ahead of him (Jackson).

    I also said that he'd shown that he was capable enough when given any kind of decent PT.

    I DID NOT SAY HE'D MAKE IT OR PAN OUT. The only person that read this thread correctly IMO was Dr. Awesome because his comment acknowledged that we were finally now in a "we can find out" period which was my point.

    The stats were about the fact that he clearly didn't warrant a lack of investigation, not that he demanded serious PT. He was a rookie and then a virtual rookie this year yet again.


    Since Judicata decided to bring this back to life in the post NY game thread it brought me back here to see all these comments and be reminded of how derailed from the point they were. Should I guess that there were people in here with a vested interest in being proven right about Henderson's chances? Or perhaps a hatred of Duke (I was accused of loving the team I might hate more than any other NCAA team)?


    All I know is that like our own guys under Jim it seemed like Henderson was abnormally being refused any development time for no apparent good reason. The only reason I noticed is because I like to follow the progress of kids I've scouted, even the kids I didn't think would make it.


    But since this "premature" thread, which was impossible to be premature since it was about Henderson deserving a chance to prove himself one way or the other, Henderson has started to show the kind of progress you show when you start getting the PT it takes to improve your game and learn how to not be a rookie.

    If his 19 point game vs the Wiz meant nothing then maybe his 6-9 with 4 boards and 4 assists vs the Lakers was a good night. Who plays SG for the Lakers, I forget.

    How about 22 points vs the Bulls on 6-9 plus 10-12 FT? I've heard Chicago is pretty good so I'm not sure how he pulled off that miracle.

    Of course we don't count the 21 points against the Kings and we don't count 10-18 vs the Clippers or 20 points again vs the Bulls because he also shot poorly against Denver and the rematch vs the Lakers.



    I don't know, I kinda feel like I was pretty spot on in saying that Brown was being stubborn and dumb for not at least trying to play Henderson and coach him up a little bit.


    PS - despite irrational gut instincts to the contrary you should not interpret what I've written to say anything close to Henderson being a future all-star. I know you want to, I know you want to picture me having Duke blue dreams of Henderson dropping J's, but for the sake of sanity try to resist it.

    Go with "the point about Brown being an irrational coach with a knack for pointlessly benching players might have been a pretty solid point", even if it feels wrong.
    It isn't.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 03-13-2011 at 09:43 PM.

  17. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    923

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    I still don't get it. There are two things going on in this thread.

    (1) Larry Brown hates rookies; and
    (2) Gerald Henderson doesn't suck.

    You use a small sample and statistical wizardry to try and validate your opinion that both are true. In fact, you can't prove the first unless you're arguing the second as well. I happen to think that attempting to use small samples to prove your argument is premature.

    Is this supposed to make me look bad?

  18. #15

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    The sample size is getting bigger and it's becoming more clear that Gerald Henderson doesn't suck. Ditto for Tyler.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Slick Pinkham For This Useful Post:


  20. #16
    History beckons. Jared Sullinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    581

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Gerald Henderson is a poor man's Dahntay Jones.
    I was thinking the same thing, or a Dahntay Jones with a receding hairline. Whichever.

  21. #17
    Play McRoberts and Price! BRushWithDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Johnson's Bay, Lake Wawasee
    Age
    27
    Posts
    5,204

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Sullinger View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I was thinking the same thing, or a Dahntay Jones with a receding hairline. Whichever.
    Probably because you are the same person.

    Gerald is a lot better than Dahntay but he does have a much worse hairline.
    "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

    -Lance Stephenson

  22. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    22
    Posts
    1,272

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Gerald Henderson is a poor man's Dahntay Jones.
    Their games are nothing alike. Henderson can score points, while Jones is defensive minded and is as useful as an 8 year old girl on offense.

  23. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    naptown
    Age
    21
    Posts
    16,659
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Their games are nothing alike. Henderson can score points, while Jones is defensive minded and is as useful as an 8 year old girl on offense.
    They both cant shoot 3s thats about it thats the same. Gearlad only has 2 makes on the season.

  24. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    22
    Posts
    1,272

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by pacer4ever View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    They both cant shoot 3s thats about it thats the same. Gearlad only has 2 makes on the season.
    At least he has potential to get better at it, Dahntay is getting too old to really improve it.

  25. #21
    Can see thru wooden doors dal9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,353

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Who plays SG for the Lakers, I forget.
    Kobe Bryant.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to dal9 For This Useful Post:


  27. #22
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    The Dragon's Lair
    Posts
    4,040

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by GrangeRusHibbert View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Gerald Henderson is a poor man's Dahntay Jones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jared Sullinger View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I was thinking the same thing, or a Dahntay Jones with a receding hairline. Whichever.
    Regardless of which one of you were thinking it, that's a bad comparison.

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Mackey_Rose For This Useful Post:


  29. #23
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    2,260

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Hey, what happened to Armon Johnson, James Anderson, Jerome Jordan, and Stanley Robinson.

  30. #24
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Sprawl
    Age
    28
    Posts
    15,067

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Here's the real question: Why do we give a crap about Gerald Henderson?

  31. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to cdash For This Useful Post:


  32. #25
    Inspiration Shade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    42,738

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Gerald Henderson set free from Larry Brown's doghouse

    Quote Originally Posted by dal9 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Kobe Bryant.
    Pretty sure Seth was being sarcastic.

Similar Threads

  1. Hoopsworld's protected/unprotected list
    By kerosene in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-13-2004, 07:30 AM
  2. Free Agents this summer... Who to pursue?
    By Ultimate Frisbee in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 06-06-2004, 11:34 PM
  3. Complete Game 2 Coverage From The Detroit News & Detroit Free Press
    By obnoxiousmodesty in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-24-2004, 11:21 AM
  4. Carlisle, team gearing up for the weekend.
    By Hicks in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 04-13-2004, 11:46 PM
  5. OT - Insider NFL Mock Draft
    By kerosene in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-30-2004, 11:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •