View Poll Results: Who's Your pick for the 2009 NCAA Football Champion?

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  • Florida

    9 45.00%
  • Utah

    10 50.00%
  • USC

    1 5.00%
  • Texas

    0 0%
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Thread: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

  1. #26
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    Utah finished unbeaten and didn't even get a chance and to me that is wrong.

    A better example would be, what if the Pats had gone 16-0 last year, but the NFL decided the Colts deserved the NFL BCS spot because the AFC South was the tougher division and we had to deal with both the Titans and Jags in our divsion? That to me is what happened to Utah this year, and it is stupid.
    That is a terrible comparison. NFL teams all have NFL talent. The MWC vs the SEC is a completely different matter.

    DK, did you have a problem during CFB season when there were 3-4 undefeated teams that were not in the top 5 because they played in extremely weak conferences? (Boise State, Ball State, etc) I think the best team should be #1 and the best team is #1. Florida was just unstoppable this year.

  2. #27
    Banned Jonathan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    The SEC was down a little this year but keep in mind teams in that conference play in huge stadiums that hold over 75,000 people. You go on the road and it is a grind. No way Utah goes undeafeted in the SEC.

  3. #28
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    I'll go back to this - keep in mind the question is who DESERVES to be ranked number 1 - not who would beat who since nobody has a clue.

    Utah ran the table and went undefeated. Florida didn't. The goal in any game is to win. Utah achieved this better than Florida. When the goal of a game is to establish a points differential I'll start considering that.

    So then we get to SOS factors. It's indisputable that Florida's strength of schedule ranking is stronger than Utah's. Part of that's the inherent BCS Conference bias that's been deliberately built into the computer rankings to justify Bowl matchups - see the following Bill James article for additional info: http://www.slate.com/id/2208108/pagenum/all/

    But probably not all of it.

    However, Utah beat 3 ranked teams this year - TCU, BYU and Alabama. Until the Alabama game, which I never thought they'd win, I hadn't even worried about Utah - it was Texas getting ripped off. So then we have the Alabama game. In the one game where we don't have to believe in a flawed, manipulated computer program where we can at least make some sort of direct comparison between two teams (rather than some nonexistent implied comparison), Florida won a narrow victory where they trailed in the 4th quarter while Utah completely dominated Alabama, sacked the opposing QB 8 times, held a top running team to 165 yards below their average and threw the ball at will.

    That's the only legitimate point of comparison I have to go by - the only common opponent. Every other comparison is tainted by a combination of them not being common opponents and by a manipulated computer program the BCS has put together to justify an unjustifiable system.

    I agree that if Utah played Florida, Florida probably wins - I disagree with anyone such as Robertmo who says there's no way Utah wins - look at the Alabama game - but that's not the question. The question is who deserves the number 1 ranking and I have no question in my mind who that is.
    You aren't acknowledging the fact that the Crimson Tide team that Utah played was completely different then the team that Florida played. Alabama had a slew of injuries and a suspension of their best player for their game against Utah. I don't think you can compare the two games.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    That is a terrible comparison. NFL teams all have NFL talent. The MWC vs the SEC is a completely different matter.

    DK, did you have a problem during CFB season when there were 3-4 undefeated teams that were not in the top 5 because they played in extremely weak conferences? (Boise State, Ball State, etc) I think the best team should be #1 and the best team is #1. Florida was just unstoppable this year.
    Tell that to the '08 Lions.

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    The fact that this discussion is taking place, and the opinions are almost split down the middle (with legit arguments from both sides), is just a further example of why a playoff system is needed.

    No system is perfect, but a playoff seems to work pretty damn well for every other sport out there. And there's no way it could be anywhere near as bad as the system that is currently in place.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    That is a terrible comparison. NFL teams all have NFL talent. The MWC vs the SEC is a completely different matter.

    DK, did you have a problem during CFB season when there were 3-4 undefeated teams that were not in the top 5 because they played in extremely weak conferences? (Boise State, Ball State, etc) I think the best team should be #1 and the best team is #1. Florida was just unstoppable this year.
    I wasn't arguing the talent level of the NFL vs. college football.

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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    That is a terrible comparison. NFL teams all have NFL talent. The MWC vs the SEC is a completely different matter.

    DK, did you have a problem during CFB season when there were 3-4 undefeated teams that were not in the top 5 because they played in extremely weak conferences? (Boise State, Ball State, etc) I think the best team should be #1 and the best team is #1. Florida was just unstoppable this year.
    Well, no...no Florida was not unstoppable. Now Utah....they were unstoppable, as evidenced by the fact that nobody stopped them from winning.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    The Alabama team that showed up for the Sugar Bowl looked collectively like they didn't want to be there. In their last game they had lost their chance to win a national title and lost their #1 ranking, losing by 11 to a Gator team playing WITHOUT two of its three best players (Harvin & Raines). I say lay that on their coach-- they were not ready to play whereas Utah was psyched for the game of their lives.

    It was great to see.

    A 14 point win over a flat Alabama team is supposedly miles better than a shorthanded 11-point win over a sharp and well-prepared Alabama team? I'm not seeing it. Enough to make up for a vast difference in quality wins by amazing margins? I don't think so.

    It's very interesting when you look at the Sagarin ratings, in that he calculates his rankings two ways. In one model called "elo chess", it only matters that you win. A one point win helps you as much as a 50 point win. In that method, Utah finished #1 anf Florida #2. The BCS uses this method as one component. In the "pure points" model which Jeff Sagarin argues is more accurate and a better predictor but less politically correct, you get credit for easy victories though there is a "diminishing returns" factor that minimizes the benefit of trying to run up the score (e.g a 20-point win isn't much different than a 40 point win, but is way better than a 1 point win).

    In that model, the Utes finish #10. Florida and USC finish 1-2.

    I'm not a big fan of polls, but he seems to always work on his formula and after 23 years has it down pretty good. Again I'd much rather see it played out and his formula must reward power schools a bit too much to have the Utes #10, but at least it's a analysis untainted by team biases or sportswriter's whims.

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt08.htm
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 01-10-2009 at 05:01 PM.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    You aren't acknowledging the fact that the Crimson Tide team that Utah played was completely different then the team that Florida played. Alabama had a slew of injuries and a suspension of their best player for their game against Utah. I don't think you can compare the two games.
    The games were consecutive - did someone come after Alabama players at practice with a machine gun or something?
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    Florida was just unstoppable this year.
    The unstoppable team in NCAA Division 1 Football was Utah - nobody stopped them.

    Florida was stopped.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
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    DK, did you have a problem during CFB season when there were 3-4 undefeated teams that were not in the top 5 because they played in extremely weak conferences? (Boise State, Ball State, etc) I think the best team should be #1 and the best team is #1. Florida was just unstoppable this year.
    I thought I explained my thought process EXTREMELY clearly in the last long post I put together. If my thought process was unclear where I specifically talked about the Alabama victory being a key factor, please let me know why.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    The unstoppable team in NCAA Division 1 Football was Utah - nobody stopped them.

    Florida was stopped.
    At home no less against a middle of the road Ole Miss team. So for all of their beat downs they handed out Florida still crapped the bed in an easy game at home.

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  13. #38
    Member Moses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    I wasn't arguing the talent level of the NFL vs. college football.
    Neither was I. I think you misunderstood what I said. I meant that comparing divisions within the NFL vs comparing the SEC to the MWC is laughable. As I said before, all NFL teams have NFL talent but not all conferences in football have the talent level of the SEC. That isn't a knock on the MWC, but it really just doesn't have the overall talent the SEC has.

    Quote Originally Posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
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    The games were consecutive - did someone come after Alabama players at practice with a machine gun or something?
    No, they lost their best player (Andre Smith) to suspension and lost 3 more of their starters to injury by halftime. That is also not mentioning that Florida was missing its best offensive player in Percy Harvin when Bama played them.

    Maybe you are right that Utah should be the #1 ranked team because they didn't lose a game, but they are not the best overall team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    At home no less against a middle of the road Ole Miss team. So for all of their beat downs they handed out Florida still crapped the bed in an easy game at home.
    Ole Miss is not a bad team. Houston Nutt is an outstanding head coach and they have great talent. Don't be surprised if they become a top 10 team in the nation next year.
    Last edited by Moses; 01-10-2009 at 07:21 PM.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indy View Post
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    At home no less against a middle of the road Ole Miss team. So for all of their beat downs they handed out Florida still crapped the bed in an easy game at home.
    Texas Tech disagrees with you. Also, according to the Sagarin rankings I linked above, had Utah played Ole Miss, they would have been their third toughest game of their entire season after Alabama and TCU. Tougher than every one of their many 2 and 3 point victories.

    I guess if there was no NCAA tournament in basketball and decided it by polls, some year Butler would run the table in the Horizon League and go 28-0 and be far more deserving of the mythical national title than, say, a 27-1 North Carolina, Kansas, or UCLA.

    Losses are important. Quality victories are important too Utah smoked Florida in avoiding the loss but got smoked in the quality victories category.

    I wished they played and would root for the Utes like crazy, but as the system stands now I think they luckily got it right.

  15. #40

    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    DK, wouldn't application of your common opponent principle also lead us to the clear conclusion that Harvard's basketball team is better than North Carolina's?

    They only have one common opponent, Boston College. On consecutive games last week, Boston College travelled to North Carolina to beat them, and then returned home and lost to Harvard. (Of course, thankfully, college b'ball doesn't rely on a silly BCS system).
    Last edited by Slick Pinkham; 01-11-2009 at 01:05 PM.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Didn't know Harvard was undefeated - congrats to them.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  17. #42
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    Florida is the champion of the 65 team BCS. Utah is national champion.

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    I don't really care since I have no dog in the fight, but when does FOX lose these games? The lack of replay on certain big plays that may have been in question bothered me in the Texas & FLA game. Pryor's td looked like he pushed off and the break up on 4th down on OKLA. last play both deserved another look even though it would not have changed anything. Still don't know why pas interference isn''t reviewable, but that's another thread. I enjoyed all the games i watched.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Who Do You Think Deserves to be the Number 1 ranked Team in NCAA College Football?

    When I saw that SycamoreKen had posted I thought for sure his answer would be "I don't know who the best is, but I do know who the worst is." Exactly when did Indiana State win a football game? I think it's been at least two years.

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