View Poll Results: Who do you like better? JOb or Rick?

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  • Jim O'Brien

    23 39.66%
  • Rick Carlisle

    35 60.34%
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Thread: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

  1. #451
    Member aaronb's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    I totally disagree that you speed up the game to overcome a talent deficit. That, to me, is a recipe for inconsistency and losing more than you win. Let alone never going to pay long term results.

    I'm not saying speed up the game to overcome a talent shortage. I say you speed up the game because the guys on this roster are better suited for running (except for Hibbert).

    To play effective half court you need.

    1. Strong post presence offensively (which Hibbert provides adequately)
    2. Strong team rebounding (which we DON"T have)
    3. A PG who can feed the post and run half court (Which we really don't have)
    4. A wing player who can dribble drive to get his shot whenever (Which we don't have)
    5. Someone else who can lurk on the perimeter for the kickout jumper (which we have in abundance)

    So basically we have 2 of the 5 components of a successful 1/2 court team. That's why we run.

  2. #452
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    The last thing I see when looking at this team is a team that needs to run. I see a team that needs some structure in its offense, better positioning for rebounding purposes, and less 'bad' shots that are leading to transition baskets or at best wasted offensive possessions because nobody was in position for the offensive rebound/tip.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  4. #453
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    1) Takes good shots. D
    2) takes care of the ball. B- 3) plays unselfishly. A
    4) Values each possession B-
    5) Good effort on defense - this season I give them an. A
    6) Good effort on boards.. B
    7) physical game on both ends. B
    8) Comes to play hard every night. This season B+
    Only major problem I see is shot selection. But also the players don't trust the offense - I would give them a D for that. They get impatient and they try to do things on their own when things start to go bad - I dont consider that selfishness though.

    Unclebuck, I enjoy your post, but I have to disagree with this. Going by your grades we are above average in every area but 1. How can that be with the record we have. 1. F we take horrible shots. 2. D, It not the number of turnovers as much as how careless they are. 3. A, agree 4. F, we don't value possession's at all. 5. B, good not great effort. 6, D, our rebound effort is poor at best. 7. C, better than in the past but getting worse as season goes on. 8. C, same thing getting worse as season goes on.

    This team needs to decide what they are. I thought that was happening at the beginning of the year. We were being physical and using our athletic ability. But now we are one thing for 5 mins of the game and then something else the next 5 mins.

    I too would be very glad not to talk about Jim Obrien. Make it Happen Larry.
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

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  6. #454

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Also, and this hasn't been mentioned much.

    Jim is known for his hard and constant practices. And we depend on the three. Well isn't he just creating tired legs? And tired legs = short shots.

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  8. #455
    I'm on a MAC! graphic-er's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Perhaps there needs to be a fire Jim OBrien rally in the Fieldhouse Lobby During the next home game, and hold the Rally all throughout the game. I wonder how many people would come out and not go to the game only to hang out in the lobby? Or how many ticket holders would abstain from watching the game and rally in the lobby?

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  10. #456
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    He has to go! At the risk of repeating myself, I say again that you don't win with a "stretch power forward". We played a pretty good ball in the first ~20 games with McRoberts starting. Conventional, hard-nosed basketball with solid, tough defense, ball-movement, and an inside-out offense. The vibe between Hibbert and McRoberts was obvious, especially on the defensive end of the court. Then JOB started to install Posey at the 4. While he is not starting yet, that doesn't mean that he isn't getting a good portion of the minutes. I mean I do like Posey, I admit that his veteran presence is good for the team and for stretches I dig his ability to make three point shots, but at the same time he seldom stand his ground on the defensive end and that is what pisses me off more than anything - the good games in the first 1/4 of the season were based on a great defensive performance and not on "spreading the floor" offensively.

    So, get back to the defense first approach, play deliberately and patiently in the offense and make it hard for opponents to score on you

    Side note: JOB is as pathetic as a coach as GOB is as a magician in Arrested Development. No offense, just watching that series, so funny..

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  12. #457
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by colts19 View Post
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    1
    Unclebuck, I enjoy your post, but I have to disagree with this. Going by your grades we are above average in every area but 1. How can that be with the record we have. 1. F we take horrible shots. 2. D, It not the number of turnovers as much as how careless they are. 3. A, agree 4. F, we don't value possession's at all. 5. B, good not great effort. 6, D, our rebound effort is poor at best. 7. C, better than in the past but getting worse as season goes on. 8. C, same thing getting worse as season goes on.
    Because there are other things that decide wins and losses that are not on the list - the biggest one being talent, ability to score......ability to get to the free throw line. I very bad team could get an A in everyone of those categores and still have a 12-70 record because of a lack of talent
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-28-2010 at 11:44 PM.

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  14. #458
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Hey... I didn't have to bump this thread tonight... what gives

  15. #459
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Fire JO'B, sure...why not?

    It could and most likely will help at least point this ship in another direction...but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that the roster was average at best.

    But maybe the reality is that we're just not a good Team and that we are losing because of that. Add in whatever JO'B is doing ( both good and bad ) and we have what we have been seeing for the last 4 seasons.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

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  17. #460

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Why do people keep talking about talent or lack of talent. The fact is we have no idea what we have because JOB insists on playing vets no matter how (in)effective they are.

    ANY other team, and I'm not exaggerating when I say ANY, would be playing their young players and would know by now how good they are, their strengths/weaknesses, and their upside. We have no clue because JOB keeps them inactive sitting on the bench.

    That, and his ridiculous shuffling of minutes/starts (matchups, lol), is why he completely sucks as a coach.

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  19. #461
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by oxxo View Post
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    ANY other team, and I'm not exaggerating when I say ANY, would be playing their young players and would know by now how good they are, their strengths/weaknesses, and their upside. We have no clue because JOB keeps them inactive sitting on the bench.
    No, that would not be the case. There's a reason every single fanbase *****es about their coach not playing the young guys. You may want to believe it is an isolated incident, but it's not.

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  21. #462
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    If the pacers are goin to fire O'Brien - Monday is a good day to do it. Pacers play Sunday and then not again until Friday

  22. #463
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    i think we should take a page from the Texans fans, and have a rally voicing our displeasure in public. Still don't think it would be enough though. JOB must have some dirt on the Simons and/or Bird. Why else is he still here?

  23. #464
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Because there are other things that decide wins and losses that are not on the list - the biggest one being talent, ability to score......ability to get to the free throw line. I very bad team could get an A in everyone of those categores and still have a 12-70 record because of a lack of talent
    Again I disagree, if we were as good in those area as you say, it would be because we have talent. Can't have it both ways.
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

  24. #465
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by colts19 View Post
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    Again I disagree, if we were as good in those area as you say, it would be because we have talent. Can't have it both ways.
    I'm sure a team of Matt Bonner, Chris Quinn, Keith Bogans, Kyle Korver, and Illyasova can give you a team with A 3pt shooting, A effort on defense, A valuing possessions, etc, and that team would win maybe 10 games all season.

  25. #466

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If the pacers are goin to fire O'Brien - Monday is a good day to do it. Pacers play Sunday and then not again until Friday

    You got some inside info? J/K

    Or Jimmy might want to take that time, if he isn't fired, and work on some basics.

    How about working on getting a better inside game so his love for his outside game works.

    How about working on rebounding, boxing out, etc.

    Setting of picks can definately use some work.

    Emphasizing MOVEMENT and not standing around at the arch waiting on someone to pass them the ball.

    Work on Hibbert to speed up his moves once he gets the ball, and how to pass it out of a double team since he's slow in making a move.

    Teaching the players the value of each possession and how their sloppy play kills so many possessions.

    Concentrating having players shoot 3's isn't what I consider a basic part of BB.

    Just in case it has escaped the notice of the FO and ownership, at 13-16 this team is IN THE LOTTERY with 4 teams within 3 games behind ready to push them out of the playoffs. If they aren't going to change coaches, maybe they should consider having their coach try a different coaching method that doesn't "emphasize shooting 3's" as the basis for playing BB. That novel idea seems to work for other coaches.

  26. #467

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaas0532 View Post
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    i think we should take a page from the Texans fans, and have a rally voicing our displeasure in public. Still don't think it would be enough though. JOB must have some dirt on the Simons and/or Bird. Why else is he still here?

    B/c they stated earlier they are pleased with how things were going. When this team gets 6-7 games under .500 and out of the playoff 8, maybe they will want to re-think their stance on how pleased they are.

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  28. #468

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    No, that would not be the case. There's a reason every single fanbase *****es about their coach not playing the young guys. You may want to believe it is an isolated incident, but it's not.
    Of course every fanbase complains about their coach, but no other lottery/.500 team insists on playing their mediocre vets over their lottery picks just because the coach is insane... or that coach was fired long ago.

    Blair, Splitter, Gay, Love, Beasley, Jennings, Curry, Bogut, Bargnani, and countless other young players have gotten plenty of playing time during their rookie/sophomore teams, on both rebuilding teams and contenders. Why can't PG get garbage time when we're blowing out a team or when we're getting destroyed? Why is JOB going with stupid lineups like Ford/Dun/Granger/Posey/Foster?

    I could go on about the countless other teams that DO give their young guys AT LEAST garbage minutes. That's one of the most maddening things about JOB. He's playing VETS during garbage time.

    I follow the NBA pretty hardcore and I honestly can't think of any team in recent memory that has the messed up rotations and PT that we do. Of course I could be wrong.
    Last edited by oxxo; 12-29-2010 at 12:15 PM.

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  30. #469
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If the pacers are goin to fire O'Brien - Monday is a good day to do it. Pacers play Sunday and then not again until Friday
    Wednesday, December 29, 2010 sounds like a fine day to me.

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  32. #470

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    Wednesday, December 29, 2010 sounds like a fine day to me.
    Dec 31 @ 11:59 PM? To ring in the new year?

  33. #471
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flox View Post
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    I'm sure a team of Matt Bonner, Chris Quinn, Keith Bogans, Kyle Korver, and Illyasova can give you a team with A 3pt shooting, A effort on defense, A valuing possessions, etc, and that team would win maybe 10 games all season.
    At least that team would have an identity and know who they were.
    Last edited by colts19; 12-29-2010 at 06:39 PM.
    Good is the enemy of Great


    We're changing the identity of our basketball team -- dramatically. We're a power post team -- a blood-and-guts, old-school, smash-mouth team that plays with size, strength, speed and athleticism. We attack the basket. . . . This is the new identity of our team. It was a great effort. I'm very proud of our guys."
    -- Frank Vogel.

  34. #472
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    If the pacers are goin to fire O'Brien - Monday is a good day to do it. Pacers play Sunday and then not again until Friday
    I'm not falling for it; you can't get my hopes up now.

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  36. #473
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by oxxo View Post
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    Of course every fanbase complains about their coach, but no other lottery/.500 team insists on playing their mediocre vets over their lottery picks just because the coach is insane... or that coach was fired long ago.

    Blair, Splitter, Gay, Love, Beasley, Jennings, Curry, Bogut, Bargnani, and countless other young players have gotten plenty of playing time during their rookie/sophomore teams, on both rebuilding teams and contenders. Why can't PG get garbage time when we're blowing out a team or when we're getting destroyed? Why is JOB going with stupid lineups like Ford/Dun/Granger/Posey/Foster?

    I could go on about the countless other teams that DO give their young guys AT LEAST garbage minutes. That's one of the most maddening things about JOB. He's playing VETS during garbage time.

    I follow the NBA pretty hardcore and I honestly can't think of any team in recent memory that has the messed up rotations and PT that we do. Of course I could be wrong.
    Yes, they do. Hell Kurt Rambis was doing it in Minnesota this season. And Kevin Love is a hell of a lot better than anyone on our team who isn't getting PT. Coaches almost always prefer playing veterans over young guys. JOB is certainly not alone on that front.

    All those guys you listed as getting PT--they are all leaps and bounds ahead of where Paul George is right now.

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  38. #474
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    Yes, they do. Hell Kurt Rambis was doing it in Minnesota this season. And Kevin Love is a hell of a lot better than anyone on our team who isn't getting PT. Coaches almost always prefer playing veterans over young guys. JOB is certainly not alone on that front.

    All those guys you listed as getting PT--they are all leaps and bounds ahead of where Paul George is right now.
    Not that I disagree with you, but how do you know this? It couldn't be from watching his development from the court, so are you privy to the practice sessions?


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  40. #475
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by colts19 View Post
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    At least that team would have an idenity and know who they were.
    That team would force JOB to bring several changes of underwear to every game, if he was their coach.

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