View Poll Results: Who do you like better? JOb or Rick?

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  • Jim O'Brien

    23 39.66%
  • Rick Carlisle

    35 60.34%
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Thread: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

  1. #426

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pwee31 View Post
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    Why do I feel like I'll have to do this all season
    Well, this thread has been relevant for 3 years now. If any thread deserves a It is this one.

  2. #427
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Every day that he remains employed as the head coach is another day of potential future success wasted.

  3. #428
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    I don't think he is a bad coach either. I think he is a very average NBA coach. Not one of the worst, not one of the best. At this point, I just think he has about run his course with us. I'm more than okay with him finishing the season, but at the end of the season I would like to see us go in a different direction.
    ...**** you!!!

    Seriously, is there any chance we axe this guy during the season? Any at all?

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  5. #429
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cdash View Post
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    ...**** you!!!

    Seriously, is there any chance we axe this guy during the season? Any at all?
    Nope


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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  7. #430
    Since 1984 1984's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    All season I have said, "Wait! Don't fire a coach mid-season - it will do more harm than good." I would officially like to retract my statement. I think it would do more harm to continue the status quo.

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  9. #431
    Droppin' knowledge, yo. Mackey_Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
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    The sooner, the better.
    And so it goes...

  10. #432
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Everytime I see this thead I open it hoping to see the coach fired.....
    I'm not perfect and neither are you.

    Romans 3:23 For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God. kjv
    Ephisians 4: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. kjv

  11. #433
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    What reaction do you guys think we will see the day that Coach is fired?


    The good morale will be absolutely off the charts

  12. #434
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    For the record, I have no problem firing a coach in midseason. If I become reasonably convinced that Jim has lost the team than I would be in favor of making a change before the end of the season. I do not expect a coaching would help make the Pacers make the playoffs, and after an initial honeymoon period I don't think the team would be any better.

    But if it will make this forum enjoyable again, it might be worth it.

  13. #435
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    For the record, I have no problem firing a coach in midseason. If I become reasonably convinced that Jim has lost the team than I would be in favor of making a change before the end of the season. I do not expect a coaching would help make the Pacers make the playoffs, and after an initial honeymoon period I don't think the team would be any better.

    But if it will make this forum enjoyable again, it might be worth it.
    Bingo.

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  15. #436
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    The Coach is a glorified babysitter on Most NBA benches. This is a sub .500 team because we have sub .500 talent.

    When you only have 2 and a max of 3 guys on the roster, who would be 9 man rotation guys on the Lakers. You don't really have much basis to dump on the coach.

    Just saying.

  16. #437

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Aaron, whether you're right or not about the sub .500 talent, that's not the only issue for me. I want a team that takes good shots, takes care of the basketball, plays unselfishly and values each possession, consistently gives good effort on defense and the boards, plays a physical game on both ends of the court, and comes to play hard every night.

    You don't need to be one of the more talented teams to play basketball the right way. Even if my team loses, I'll be more satisfied if they played well. The Pacers, even when they win, typically don't play what I'd considered playing well. Except for at the start of the season, they win primarily when they shoot well, which overcomes subpar play in a number of other areas. Jim O'Brien, in my opinion, doesn't do enough to push his team to play well in a number of the most fundamental areas, judging by the way he distributes playing time and by the things he emphasizes in his public comments about the team and its individual players.

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  18. #438
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie fan View Post
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    Aaron, whether you're right or not about the sub .500 talent, that's not the only issue for me. I want a team that takes good shots, takes care of the basketball, plays unselfishly and values each possession, consistently gives good effort on defense and the boards, plays a physical game on both ends of the court, and comes to play hard every night.

    You don't need to be one of the more talented teams to play basketball the right way. Even if my team loses, I'll be more satisfied if they played well. The Pacers, even when they win, typically don't play what I'd considered playing well. Except for at the start of the season, they win primarily when they shoot well, which overcomes subpar play in a number of other areas. Jim O'Brien, in my opinion, doesn't do enough to push his team to play well in a number of the most fundamental areas, judging by the way he distributes playing time and by the things he emphasizes in his public comments about the team and its individual players.

    I'm not a JOB fan in any way. I just think people use him as a scapegoat instead of being honest about the state of the roster.

  19. #439
    crazy shinaniganz BringJackBack's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    I think that JOB is a very average coach who gets the best out of his players and makes young players push themselves. A disciplinarian.

    That said, he's a terrible fit for our players. He has Danny in the Paul Pierce/AI role and he simply doesn't have the creating ability to do that, he has Darren and TJ not playing to their strengths, he has succesfully turned Josh McRoberts into Troy Murphy, and he keeps our best subs inactive because he'd rather have a decent player, like Posey, that fits what he's trying to do than a good player, like Tyler ,that doesn't fit what JOB is trying to accomplish.

    It is time for someone to coach this team that can keep Danny off-the-ball for the most part, put the damn ball in Darren Collison's hands, let power forwards play a power game, and quit letting Roy shoot jumpshots.

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  21. #440

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronb View Post
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    The Coach is a glorified babysitter on Most NBA benches. This is a sub .500 team because we have sub .500 talent.

    When you only have 2 and a max of 3 guys on the roster, who would be 9 man rotation guys on the Lakers. You don't really have much basis to dump on the coach.

    Just saying.
    The coach does not have as much impact as in college and lower levels true, but to say they have none at all is stretching it. They do have a huge impact in rotations and as a 'manager' or 'HR' type role. The truth is JOB sucks hardcore at those things, which is exactly what an NBA coach needs to be good at.

    We don't KNOW if our talent is sub .500 or not because JOB jerks players around with starts and playing time and doesn't play our talent. It's pretty obvious that he's playing vets regardless of whether or not the young talent is better or not. There's also the issue where he plays players out of position and not to their strengths (Posey at 4, McRoberts as a 'stretch' 4).

    So basically, yes a coach doesn't have as great of an positive impact as talent does in the NBA, but they have plenty of opportunity to have a significant impact... which JOB definitely does.

    You don't see Jackson or Popovich changing their starting lineup every game or suddenly cutting players minutes all the time. You don't see them trying to put players out of position in an attempt to be 'smart' (or something).

    JOB sucks plain and simple. When we played the lineups and minutes that everyone here wants (and common sense dictates) you could see that we were definitely over a .500 team.

  22. #441
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Maybe he will resign, lol... not that he is a super bad coach... but whatever he is doing here is not working obviously so we need to bring in someone new...

    PLAN AND SIMPLE

    We have a young team and we need a good coach to motivate them and teach them while they are young with a bunch of potential... not sure who would be able to do this but umm we need someone... maybe coach Cal or something, lol

  23. #442
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie fan View Post
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    Aaron, whether you're right or not about the sub .500 talent, that's not the only issue for me. I want a team that takes good shots, takes care of the basketball, plays unselfishly and values each possession, consistently gives good effort on defense and the boards, plays a physical game on both ends of the court, and comes to play hard every night.
    I think we all want those things. The arguments will come in whether the coach is responsible for them doing them or not doing them, and to what degree the pacers excel at those things

    1) Takes good shots. D
    2) takes care of the ball. B-
    3) plays unselfishly. A
    4) Values each possession B-
    5) Good effort on defense - this season I give them an. A
    6) Good effort on boards.. B
    7) physical game on both ends. B
    8) Comes to play hard every night. This season B+

    Only major problem I see is shot selection. But also the players don't trust the offense - I would give them a D for that. They get impatient and they try to do things on their own when things start to go bad - I dont consider that selfishness though.


    wow, that felt good to not discuss Jim O'Brien

  24. #443
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aaronb View Post
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    I'm not a JOB fan in any way. I just think people use him as a scapegoat instead of being honest about the state of the roster.
    i agree that our roster isnt very good and needs to get a lot better. but JOB needs to go. But im sure in a few yrs we will have the same convo with the new coach. Coaches always get the blame

  25. #444
    Whale Shepherd cdash's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    At least he is better than Tom Crean.

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  27. #445
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    For the record, I have no problem firing a coach in midseason. If I become reasonably convinced that Jim has lost the team than I would be in favor of making a change before the end of the season. I do not expect a coaching would help make the Pacers make the playoffs, and after an initial honeymoon period I don't think the team would be any better.

    But if it will make this forum enjoyable again, it might be worth it.
    The problem is that O'Brien is the 800lb gorilla sitting in the living room. You cannot talk Pacer basketball with O'Brien taken out of the equation.

    Some people are arguing that most NBA coaches are glorified baby-sitters or figureheads rolling the balls out to start practice and letting the players do their thing. Well, that's not O'Brien. He's anything but that. His fingerprints are all over this team. His idea of how to space the floor cannot be overlooked. His acceptance of 'settling for the 3' cannot be overlooked (what most basketball purists would see as settling for a 3 is something that O'Brien apparently sees as a necessarily (evil?) part of his design). His contradictions cannot be overlooked.

    I can agree that it would be more enjoyable to discuss Pacer basketball on this forum if Jim O'Brien was fired. ....But then again... Pacer basketball would be more enjoyable if O'Brien was fired!
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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  29. #446

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie fan View Post
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    Aaron, whether you're right or not about the sub .500 talent, that's not the only issue for me. I want a team that takes good shots, takes care of the basketball, plays unselfishly and values each possession, consistently gives good effort on defense and the boards, plays a physical game on both ends of the court, and comes to play hard every night.
    Doubtful. Can you point out a single team with sub .500 talent that does all those things?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie fan View Post
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    You don't need to be one of the more talented teams to play basketball the right way.
    What exactly is the right way of playing basketball?

  30. #447
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cordobes View Post
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    Doubtful. Can you point out a single team with sub .500 talent that does all those things?



    What exactly is the right way of playing basketball?
    Pretty much take the methods that O'Brien subscribes to offensively and reverse those.

    Structure the offense more frequently unless you have elite talent.

    Save energy to play better defense by slowing down the offense, using defense to create offensive opportunities.

    Play bigs in positions on the floor that maximize their rebounding potential and allow them to work off of one another in low post scoring situations.

    Use bigs in the high post only sparingly.

    Shoot about 15 to 18 3's per game instead of 20 or more, and stop shooting them if it becomes clear that the players legs aren't giving them lift on their shots.

    Drive to the basket, backcut, or shoot midrange jumpers off of ball and player movement more frequently.

  31. #448

    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Is that the right way of playing basketball or merely your favourite way?

    Which winning teams in the history of the league played basketball the right way?

  32. #449
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad8888 View Post
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    Pretty much take the methods that O'Brien subscribes to offensively and reverse those.

    Structure the offense more frequently unless you have elite talent.

    Save energy to play better defense by slowing down the offense, using defense to create offensive opportunities.

    Play bigs in positions on the floor that maximize their rebounding potential and allow them to work off of one another in low post scoring situations.

    Use bigs in the high post only sparingly.

    Shoot about 15 to 18 3's per game instead of 20 or more, and stop shooting them if it becomes clear that the players legs aren't giving them lift on their shots.

    Drive to the basket, backcut, or shoot midrange jumpers off of ball and player movement more frequently.

    Have to disagree with you about "slowing the offense down" here.

    This roster is definitely better suited for an uptempo game. We really don't have a wing on the roster who can get his own shot. Especially off the dribble. Our rebounding and physical inside presence is also really weak.

    Unless the plan is to feed Hibbert for 25 shots per game. I think you need to try and run and hope for the best.

  33. #450
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    I totally disagree that you speed up the game to overcome a talent deficit. That, to me, is a recipe for inconsistency and losing more than you win. Let alone never going to pay long term results.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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