View Poll Results: Who do you like better? JOb or Rick?

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  • Jim O'Brien

    23 39.66%
  • Rick Carlisle

    35 60.34%
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Thread: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

  1. #251
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    I thought Jim did a pretty good job tonight, until Danny fouled out. Then he went into brain-freeze mode again.

  2. #252
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    somebody that loves JOB please tell me why foster and Jack where on the floor at the end of the game? 5 guys guarding 3
    Jack was on the floor because, with Ford out, he's one of your best five, even on an awful offensive night. (Travis had announced that he was used up for the night in his customary way, by trying to throw a three-point through the flange.

    I think O'Brien made a mistake by having Foster on the floor, but there was no Danny, and it sure feels like Rasho hasn't hit a jump shot since sometime in the mid-90's at this point. However, it was a call I don't think was right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    I thought Jim did a pretty good job tonight, until Danny fouled out. Then he went into brain-freeze mode again.
    The only problem I had was with Foster being on the floor for the last play.

  3. #253
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Can anybody tell me who are the "free agents" coaches out there that are better than JOB? I don't like JOB as a coach so I want to know who are the other options, thanks.

  4. #254
    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Can anybody tell me who are the "free agents" coaches out there that are better than JOB? I don't like JOB as a coach so I want to know who are the other options, thanks.
    There aren't any.

    That's one of the main reasons I want JOB to stay, he is as good as its gonna get. The Pacers are losing money right now as it is and there's no way they don't let him coach through his contract.

  5. #255
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    There aren't any.

    That's one of the main reasons I want JOB to stay, he is as good as its gonna get. The Pacers are losing money right now as it is and there's no way they don't let him coach through his contract.
    In other words we are screw

  6. #256

    Default Lack of athleticism (Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho,Diener)

    it is absurd to me how Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho, and Diener are all being played at the same time. This is crazy to me, maybe O'brien does not see it but these guys have no lateral movement hell they barely move forward. i mean i would think defense is something you have to want to do. but it shocks me that he continues to yank Hibbert when he is playing well or Rush when he is playing well but stick w/ Rasho, Murphy when they arent making any contributions. And its not like the vets we have are marquee names or anything.

    But when will this coach be held accountable, because it is obvious he cannot get the best out of these guys w/ the poor play calling at the end of games to the inconsistent substitutions and the poor usage of timeouts....This guy is not our coach, your thoughts?

  7. #257
    Get well PG! DGPR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lack of athleticism (Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho,Diener)

    Fire the coach!

    What does the thread title have to do with the material of your post?
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

  8. #258
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    Default Re: Lack of athleticism (Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho,Diener)

    I believe the problem isn't with the coaching and substitution patterns, but more with (as you more or less pointed out) the talent.

    As Slick would say, "You gotta have the horses."

    You have to take into account injuries here, too - Ford is hurt and Daniels is hurt which makes our bench pretty thin and puts O'Brien's ideal rotations out of whack.

    I've been pretty defensive (no pun intended) of O'Brien this year because i think he is doing what he can with what he has - its tough to not have a post presence, or a legit inside defender. However, the recent 120 point games are disheartening.

    If the Pacers go in the lotto, I feel Bird will make some moves in the offseason and give O'Brien one more year to make something happen.

  9. #259

    Default Re: Lack of athleticism (Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho,Diener)

    Quote Originally Posted by nerveghost View Post
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    I believe the problem isn't with the coaching and substitution patterns, but more with (as you more or less pointed out) the talent.

    As Slick would say, "You gotta have the horses."

    You have to take into account injuries here, too - Ford is hurt and Daniels is hurt which makes our bench pretty thin and puts O'Brien's ideal rotations out of whack.

    I've been pretty defensive (no pun intended) of O'Brien this year because i think he is doing what he can with what he has - its tough to not have a post presence, or a legit inside defender. However, the recent 120 point games are disheartening.

    If the Pacers go in the lotto, I feel Bird will make some moves in the offseason and give O'Brien one more year to make something happen.

    Agreed. I think OB is doing as well as he can with the talent he is dealt, however I think a lot of the posters have had a problem with his substitution patterns in games. Before this thread gets off track let me go back to the original idea of those four people mentioned lacking athleticism. Here is my response to that....................DUH! Sorry but anyone watching a TV knows this is not an athletic group of players, plus sorry it seems as if there was a theme with the players you mentioned. I also would like to point out that Hibbert has not blown me away with his athleticism.

  10. #260

    Default Carlisle players after da brawl vs. O'brien's players now!!!

    Just wanted to point out to you guys that when the brawl happened Carlisle had less to work with pg...tinsley, sg...fred jones, sf...James Jones, PF croshere n, Center Foster...yet he was able to get the team to defend and play at a high level.....thus, O'brien has better players w/ jack, daniels,granger,foster,hibbert and can't get them to play a lick of D" Please someone explain to me y this is....?

  11. #261
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    Default Re: Lack of athleticism (Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho,Diener)

    I disagree. Diener seems to be the only one on this team that can push the ball upcourt.

    Dunleavy just came back from injury. Give him time.

    I think watching the games more closely will keep you from throwing these guys under the bus.

  12. #262
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    Default Re: Lack of athleticism (Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho,Diener)

    Murphy last night seemed to be using his shot fake then drive more. He is a terrible perimeter shooter though. He does avg a double/double.

    Dunleavy is just getting back from an injurya & missed the first thirty games. He is in exhibation mode and everybody else is in pre-season mode. What do you expect from him after missing thirty games?

    Diener- is the teams third PG, he does his job of pushing the tempo. He plays b/c Tinsley is not suiting up. What more do you want from a third PG?

    Rasho- is a true professional. He does hustle and has a better perimeter jump shot than Troy. He also can pass the ball very well.

    As far JOB not playing Hibbert. Did you watch the game last night? Hibbert picked up three fouls in the first six minutes. He passed the ball to Brewer (Jazz) for a dunk.

  13. #263
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    Default Re: Carlisle players after da brawl vs. O'brien's players now!!!

    Ugh, another one of these threads.

    There was another group of players on the floor, with a mindset of redemption, plus you had Reggie back from injury, and coming out with his last season.

    I wouldn't go comparing apples to grapes here. Both are tasty, but each makes a unique flavor of juice.

  14. #264
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    Default Re: Carlisle players after da brawl vs. O'brien's players now!!!

    Carlisle coached a more structured, slower style of play. Mistakes were easier to make up for because they were not magnified by the faster pace that O'Brien coaches. At a faster pace of play, when a change of possession on our offensive end occurs, it is easier for the opposition to fly down the court and capitalize prior to our guys getting back and THEN having to read what the opposition is doing and make the appropriate reactions. This can also lead to defensive mistakes.

    At an overall slower pace, our guys could more easily get back and were less fatigued when they did. Also, it was easier to read the opponents offense and react correctly when our team had the opportunity to set up in the half court defensively. It did not require as much quick thought or effort to be effective.

    Our current quick offense does force the opposition into defensive mistakes as well, though, especially when they become fatigued. The opposition has the choice of going deeper into their bench to players who are generally less experienced or more error prone, or leaving their fatigued players on the floor to ride things out. Carlisle went deeper into our bench (when we had depth, which was not the case immediately in the aftermath of the brawl) and adjusted defensive schemes to funnel opposing players toward whatever area of the floor that he felt our team would be the strongest defending with whatever lineup he had available at a given time.

    Carlisle adjusted his system to fit the players and their strengths as he saw them, while O'Brien expects his players to go against what they have been taught most of their basketball careers and provide token pressure on the perimeter while trying to entice the opposition to drive while we try to get deflections, with rotational help defense attempting to cover the massive gap that we have in the middle without any decent help for our only interior defender, Jeff Foster, who is obviously wearing down and getting discouraged in many recent games during our streak of close games.

    My guess is that O'Brien will not trust his young guys, being McRoberts, Hibbert, and Rush due to their inability to grasp his defensive system. The flaw to this logic is that they will not learn the system if they don't play much, if at all, in actual games with the expectation that they try to execute the system. Carlisle would have adjusted the system to a more easily learned version and then added to the complexity as his young athletic guys progressed and became effective with what they were being taught.

  15. #265
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    Default Re: Carlisle players after da brawl vs. O'brien's players now!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by kbills05 View Post
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    Just wanted to point out to you guys that when the brawl happened Carlisle had less to work with pg...tinsley, sg...fred jones, sf...James Jones, PF croshere n, Center Foster...yet he was able to get the team to defend and play at a high level.....thus, O'brien has better players w/ jack, daniels,granger,foster,hibbert and can't get them to play a lick of D" Please someone explain to me y this is....?
    What do you mean - play at a high level. They did lose 7 in a row after winning 2 of their first 3 right after the brawl. They did get JO back, they did sign DD, they had Reggie
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 01-13-2009 at 10:37 AM.

  16. #266
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lack of athleticism (Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho,Diener)

    If we don't have an athletic group of players why are we playing this Chinese Fire Drill Helter Skelter offense? Also, I'm having a hard time reconciling the comments where people bemoan our lack of athleticism and then say we play the way we do because it's our only chance to win. That seems absolutely backwards to me.

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  17. #267
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    Default Re: Carlisle players after da brawl vs. O'brien's players now!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    What do you mean - play at a high level. They did lost 7 in a row after winning 2 of their first 3 right after the brawl. They did get JO back, they did sign DD, they had Reggie
    That's what I was thinking.

    I'm starting to think that most of these threads are being started out of desperate frustration.

  18. #268
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    Default Re: Lack of athleticism (Murphy,Dunleavy,Rasho,Diener)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    If we don't have an athletic group of players why are we playing this Chinese Fire Drill Helter Skelter offense? Also, I'm having a hard time reconciling the comments where people bemoan our lack of athleticism and then say we play the way we do because it's our only chance to win. That seems absolutely backwards to me.

    -Bball
    I kept wondering who those guys were running very fast up and down the court this season.

  19. #269
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    Default Re: Carlisle players after da brawl vs. O'brien's players now!!!

    kbills05 will continue to start random, useless threads if we continue to comment on them. STOP THE MADNESS
    Turn out the lights, this party's over!

  20. #270
    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carlisle players after da brawl vs. O'brien's players now!!!

    "Once you are emotionally committed to a particular outcome, it can be very hard to maintain your objectivity." Jo-Ellen Dimitrius

  21. #271
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by aceace View Post
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    Are we going to blame JOB for the recent illnesses? Injuries? Mike D. not playing? Rush shooting horrible recently? Jack taking it coast to coast missing when we could have had the last shot? etc. etc. JOB is not a bad coach just a victim of unusual circumstances this year. He has not lost the team and therein is where the decision comes.
    Well who are we to blame? Bird or O'Brien.

    Bird is doing his part (see the draft, see the O'Neal trade). Although maybe O'Brien gets a pass so far because he's dealing with so many new roster additions.

    We're the eighth-worst team in the league. Jim O'Brien is a filler coach and I'd be surprised if he lasts through the offseason (provided the Pacers season continues to go the direction it is going). Let's look at the facts: last year the Pacers finished 36-46. This year they are on pace to finish 28-54. That's a 64-100 record in two seasons.

    My problem with O'Brien is that he is not playing the younger players. He's using the veterans as a crutch because he needs wins to secure his future as the team's coach. Only problem is, we're not winning.

    Any ideas of who might be a good candidate to replace O'Brien, if he is indeed fired this season or after the season?

    I have a few:

    Mark Jackson - Former Pacers point guard of the NBA-Pacers-glory-days. He has experience as a floor leader, but none as a coach. Does a good job of color analysis on ESPN. He wasn't interested in coaching the team the last time the job was available, but now he's been turned down for a few positions he wanted. Maybe that humbled him. At the same time, this Pacers team looks like a team a coach might have more interest in being a part of. I bet if Jackson were offered the position this summer, he'd consider it.

    Sam Mitchell - Another former Pacer. Did a good job with coaching younger players in Toronto, but his teams' defenses haven't been consistently good.

    What you folks think?

  22. #272
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Can anybody tell me who are the "free agents" coaches out there that are better than JOB? I don't like JOB as a coach so I want to know who are the other options, thanks.
    It took a lot of searching to find any of this information. Here is the best link I could find. From National Post. Top five free agent coaches.
    http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...-for-long.aspx

    And another link. It's from Talking Points, a Bay area blog and relates to the eventual replacement of Don Nelson for Golden State. Still this gives a decent listing of some free agent coaches.

    http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakam...g-or-anything/

    There you go.

  23. #273
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Never been a huge Sam Mitchell fan as a coach, so I wouldn't like to see him as the coach of the Pacers. I think Jackson is an interesting option. If he can lead from the bench like he did on the court, I think he'd be one hell of a coach. Do you think he would do his shimmy after his first coaching win
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  24. #274
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    I'll start thinking about a replacement when it is time to replace O'Brien - and we are a long way away from that

  25. #275
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    Default Re: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I'll start thinking about a replacement when it is time to replace O'Brien - and we are a long way away from that
    You know you want Thibodeau.

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