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The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

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  • #16
    Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Originally posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
    UB, I know that you have said more then a few times that J'OB is one of the best coaches that the Pacers have had. I was just wondering what specifics that you had in mind that make him rank that high. I've stated for a while that Jim is a "filler" coach, but your continued glowing praise of him makes me wonder what I'm missing when judging Jim O'Brien from a fans perspective.
    Hey, I saw you on TV last night at the start of the Pacers telecast, you were walking through the concourse.

    I want to address your question, but can't now, and when I answer I want to do it justice, so maybe over the next few days I'll start a thread to explain why I think he is a good coach

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

      UNCLEBUCK...remember me challenging you a couple of years ago with..."Welcome to the '80s"? The P's then started games good, got leads, and then lost in the 4th. Night in and Night out. Sound familiar? (Sorry, didnt know where else to put that, so here 'tis)

      Aren't we already paying at least one other guy NOT to coach the Pacers right now? And who's heading up the offices and is Bird's boss now? JOB has as safe a job as any coach could have until the end of his current contract, and then we'll see what happens.
      Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

        Originally posted by travmil View Post
        He doesn't have talent my butt. Yeah they're not gonna win a title but they have enough talent to be better than they are. I don't even post on this board anymore because of this stupid JOB love affair that some of you have. JOB isn't even average as a coach. Calling JOB average is a complete insult to average coaches everywhere. His mind boggling decisions and late game substitutions are a joke. He doesn't have a go to play that will get you a bucket out of a timeout, and even if he did he'd draw it up for Jarrett Jack. He gives minutes to players that don't deserve them. I've made it clear that in my opinion JOB isn't even fit to coach in a YMCA youth league, and I've seen nothing out of him this season to change my mind.
        couldn't agree more.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

          Where is this "talent" everyone keeps talking about?

          By my calculations, we have one bona fide NBA starter in Danny, a theoretical NBA starter who has lost his job on every other team he's played on in TJ, and a bunch of bench players.

          Daniels has been playing out of his mind at times this year, but he's not a starter. Troy is an ideal 7th man. Jeff is a specialist off the bench. Rasho is a solid, backup, journeyman center. Jarrett is a suitable backup PG without much vision/creativity.

          No one else has any NBA track record at all.

          Phil Jackson, Pop or Jerry Sloan could maybe have eeked 13 wins out of this slop. Otherwise, he's doing fine.

          And, in fact, it's my position that the reason we've been down to the last possession (NO, PHI, LAL, HOU, ORL, PHI) or at least the last minute (ATL, MEM, DET, BOS, DAL) with a chance to win more than a third of our games, is the fact that teams have a very difficult time matching up to our spread offense. Other teams spend all week gearing up for regular, run-of-the-mill offenses and then have to come to Conseco for the fourth game of a road trip. They are caught off guard and unable to know what's even going on until the third quarter. Even then, they have no solution and can't rotate even near well enough to match up with our shooters or stop our ball reversal penetration.

          More importantly, Danny is thriving in this offense.

          If we had Flip Saunders, Avery Johnson or a more traditional coach, Danny would be easier to game plan for. Instead, we have a wide-open scheme where, even without the screens that Reggie depended on throughout the 90s, there is a genius of floor spacing that allows Danny to get 3-4 uncontested threes per game. Similarly, it is that same phenomenal spacing that creates dribbling lanes for Danny. Last year, he still struggled to find them. This year, he is taking advantage of them greatly. And, now, as he has learned to be aggressive and that he can get to the rim, he not only uses the large holes -- he makes his own and has learned to react to the now quick-to-come double teams on his penetration.

          Maybe he learns how to do this in a different system. Maybe not.

          Regardless, JO'B's offense has given Danny a confidence and tailor-made scoring options that he would never have benefited from otherwise.

          And, to me, that evolution in our only League-wide significant player is worth even a 0-82 season.

          Eventually, Jimmy's scheme will prove unnecessary. It's not really a "Playoff" system. No one wins seven game-series (seres? serieses?) shooting 25 threes a night. But during our franchise's (hopeful) transition back into a legitimate NBA franchise with legitimate NBA talent, his gimmicky system is keeping us competitive. Sure the W/L record doesn't support that, but everyone from CP3 to John Hollinger is continually singing the song that we're much better than our record and that "that's a good team." When it comes to our players, I honestly don't think we're any better than 10-21. But I do think Jim O'Brien and his style is better than that. And it will have some effect on the W/L record before these 82 games are over.
          Last edited by JayRedd; 12-31-2008, 02:14 PM.
          Read my Pacers blog:
          8points9seconds.com

          Follow my twitter:

          @8pts9secs

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          • #20
            Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

            Boy you people have high expectations with a mediocre team.
            Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

              Originally posted by JayRedd View Post
              Where is this "talent" everyone keeps talking about?

              By my calculations, we have one bona fide NBA starter in Danny, a theoretical NBA starter who has lost his job on every other team he's played on in TJ, and a bunch of bench players.

              Daniels has been playing out of his mind at times this year, but he's not a starter. Troy is an ideal 7th man. Jeff is a specialist off the bench. Rasho is a solid, backup, journeyman center. Jarrett is a suitable backup PG without much vision/creativity.

              No one else has any NBA track record at all.

              Phil Jackson, Pop or Jerry Sloan could maybe have eeked 13 wins out of this slop. Otherwise, he's doing fine.

              And, in fact, it's my position that the reason we've been down to the last possession (NO, PHI, LAL, HOU, ORL, PHI) or at least the last minute (ATL, MEM, DET, BOS, DAL) with a chance to win more than a third of our games, is the fact that teams have a very difficult time matching up to our spread offense. Other teams spend all week gearing up for regular, run-of-the-mill offenses and then have to come to Conseco for the fourth game of a road trip. They are caught off guard and unable to know what's even going on until the third quarter. Even then, they have no solution and can't rotate even near well enough to match up with our shooters or stop our ball reversal penetration.

              More importantly, Danny is thriving in this offense.

              If we had Flip Saunders, Avery Johnson or a more traditional coach, Danny would be easier to game plan for. Instead, we have a wide-open scheme where, even without the screens that Reggie depended on throughout the 90s, there is a genius of floor spacing that allows Danny to get 3-4 uncontested threes per game. Similarly, it is that same phenomenal spacing that creates dribbling lanes for Danny. Last year, he still struggled to find them. This year, he is taking advantage of them greatly. And, now, as he has learned to be aggressive and that he can get to the rim, he not only uses the large holes -- he makes his own and has learned to react to the now quick-to-come double teams on his penetration.

              Maybe he learns how to do this in a different system. Maybe not.

              Regardless, JO'B's offense has given Danny a confidence and tailor-made scoring options that he would never have benefited from otherwise.

              And, to me, that evolution in our only League-wide significant player is worth even a 0-82 season.

              Eventually, Jimmy's scheme will prove unnecessary. But during our franchise's (hopeful) transition back into a legitimate NBA franchise with legitimate NBA talent, his gimmicky system is keeping us competitive. Sure the W/L record doesn't support that, but everyone from CP3 to John Hollinger is continually singing the song that we're much better than our record. I honestly don't think our players are. But I do think Jim O'Brien and his style is better than our record.
              Stop giving UB your login info, JayRedd, he's ruining your attempts to become the Paul Walker of this forum.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                Originally posted by Suaveness View Post
                Boy you people have high expectations with a mediocre team.
                They would need to win 11 games in a row to be considered mediocre.


                Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                  Originally posted by Suaveness View Post
                  Boy you people have high expectations with a mediocre team.
                  There is a fine line between losing games and blowing games with awful play calling and poor substitutions.

                  I've never been one to look at a coach and say "Wow, he just lost the team the game.", but I do it so often with Obie. I'm asking someone here who likes Obie to name me one time all season, that having Jack at SG was a good idea? How about one last possession game that came remotely close to working?

                  I didn't see the Rockets game, I know we scored on the last second possession, but it looked more like a broken play than anything else, but I can't say for sure. In most other games, his play every single time is "Give it to the PG for a one on one." Its that simple, and the few times he draws something else up - its a turnover before we even shoot it.

                  Jim O'Brien is incapable of coaching a middle school team. How he convinced Bird otherwise is beyond me.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                    I thought O'Brien was known for overacheiving with less talented teams. I mean, Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker to the Eastern Conference Finals...

                    Also, I apologize if my expectations of this team are higher than 11 games under .500. I must be drinking too much of that sunshiner kool-aid. I just wonder, because I went back to the preseason prediction threads and saw that everybody predicted 29 or more wins - and the vast majority over 35 wins, why so many people claim to have expected us to be so bad. I mean, I know we lost Dunleavy, but who thinks this team is anything but underacheiving right now?

                    Teams have won with less talent and teams have lost with more talent.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                      Originally posted by Franchise55 View Post

                      How he convinced Bird otherwise is beyond me.

                      Had a nice voice on the phone interview.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                        Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
                        IAlso, I apologize if my expectations of this team are higher than 11 games under .500. I must be drinking too much of that sunshiner kool-aid. I just wonder, because I went back to the preseason prediction threads and saw that everybody predicted 29 or more wins - and the vast majority over 35 wins, why so many people claim to have expected us to be so bad. I mean, I know we lost Dunleavy, but who thinks this team is anything but underacheiving right now?
                        Where's that thread? Pretty sure the "29" is mine, and it was caveated that as Rush and Hibbert worked through their learning curves, as I said several times this summer that we would win more games in March and April as they developed to get up to 29. Right now we are mathematically on pace to win 26, and need to get more out of those two rookies in February and March than we've gotten in November and December.

                        I think they are right on pace, but right now a lot of people are playing "Revisionst history" with their preseason predictions. I was generally chastised around here for my "pessimism" over the summer, but now everyone seems to think that their "realism" aligned with my original view.
                        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                        And life itself, rushing over me
                        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                          Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
                          I thought O'Brien was known for overacheiving with less talented teams. I mean, Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker to the Eastern Conference Finals...

                          Also, I apologize if my expectations of this team are higher than 11 games under .500. I must be drinking too much of that sunshiner kool-aid. I just wonder, because I went back to the preseason prediction threads and saw that everybody predicted 29 or more wins - and the vast majority over 35 wins, why so many people claim to have expected us to be so bad. I mean, I know we lost Dunleavy, but who thinks this team is anything but underacheiving right now?

                          Teams have won with less talent and teams have lost with more talent.

                          To listen to some they think this team is overachieving with the players on this roster.

                          Last year this team won 36 or 37 games with less talent playing. JO was injured numerous games, Tinsley was gone after a certain point in the season, Daniels was playing injured, Diener was the PG, Ike never found his game after he returned from injury, etc. Since last season, the PG spot was addressed with Ford and Jack, Rasho was acquired to allow Foster and Murphy to play their position of PF, and Rush and Hibbert was drafted to fill 2 positions of need, and Daniels is having a great season; and yet this team has only won "11" games with more playing talent.

                          Why is that? I really don't need an answer b/c I've read all the excuses from the Sally Sunshiners. Expectations are so low from the Sunshiners that if the Pacers never won another game this season it would be excused away as ok. It's not ok, it's not the way it is b/c........ fill in excuse. This team has beaten the Lakers and Boston once and almost beat Boston a 2nd time. There is enough talent on this team to have a record that is better than what it has and better than what it was last year. If not, then Bird has failed in his job... plain and simple.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                            Jay,

                            The difference is that your view assumed Dunleavy would be playing, hence why it was and continues to be pessimistic.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                              Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                              Jay,

                              The difference is that your view assumed Dunleavy would be playing, hence why it was and continues to be pessimistic.
                              Actually, I believe Jay and I both predicted that Dun would be playing but would regress, and neither of us expected the contributions Quis has given us. We're getting far more out of our SG spot than I anticipated, regardless of the player.
                              This space for rent.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

                                Originally posted by MrSparko View Post
                                Who's available exactly that everyone's dying to have?

                                I can't wait to see Eddie Jordan lead this same bunch of players to 50 wins next year.
                                Exactly.

                                The funny thing is that I wouldn't be surprised if Carlisle got another run once JOB's contract is up.
                                This space for rent.

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