View Poll Results: Who do you like better? JOb or Rick?

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  • Jim O'Brien

    23 39.66%
  • Rick Carlisle

    35 60.34%
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Thread: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

  1. #101
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    Just because your favorite player isn't getting 48 MPG doesn't make the coach bad. JOB has some weird rotations and it does seem that 50% (?) of the last second shots to end any of the four corners are taken by the same guy who dribbles the ball down the court.

    JOB called the play "2-2-6" whatever that may be from the sidelines after the Pacers secured the rebound for the last play. He even had to yell it a few times to somebody. I was in the basement of my house in Indy and knew the play. It's safe to assume the 5 guys on the court did as well. No need for a timeout..... they had a play.


    With all of that said I also hate JOB as the coach but some of you's need to calmicus downicus.

    Don't you hate when your stupidity is forever etched in the internet!

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    I don't think there's been a good fit as coach since Bird. I'm not some blind Bird fan, but IT was clueless, Carlisle was a square peg in a round hole, and JOB's best coaching effort wouldn't yield 45 wins as long as he's here. Square peg/round hole vs. recycled coach--I'll pass on both.

  3. #103

    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    You're in four bands. You need never be ashamed.
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  4. #104
    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Enough talk about the coach! Geeze.

  5. #105
    Member MiaDragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Id like someone in the middle of the two, not a control freak but not someone that lets the cannons fire at will.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by duke dynamite View Post
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    Enough talk about the coach! Geeze.
    Yes everything is "sunshiny"

  7. #107
    Yeah, I'm a Pacers fan. MyFavMartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    If you can't love the one you want, love the one you're with.


    Actually prefer a less micromanaged team, so I went with JOB, who I think is doing well considering the injuries and lack of a strong offensive post threat. (And, no, I don't want JO back, so don't post that poll. )

  8. #108
    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Doug, your post is everything I wanted to say when battling everyone that just wants to look at the "tip of the iceberg". Obie is doing a fine job for this rebuilding project.
    ...Still "flying casual"
    @roaminggnome74

  9. #109
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    I'll throw more support to Doug's post.

  10. #110
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by MiaDragon View Post
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    Id like someone in the middle of the two, not a control freak but not someone that lets the cannons fire at will.
    Yep. Someone in between would be quite nice, but knowing this board it wouldn't take them long to find something to pick at.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    [QUOTE=Unclebuck;827629]I like them both a lot.

    I do laugh now that so many think Rick is a great coach, where were many of you two and thre years ago[/QUOTE


    Who you don't like?

  12. #112
    Member idioteque's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    Who you don't like?
    If you're going to make legitimate arguments about why you don't like O'Brien that's fine. But throwing silly one-liners at admins isn't going to win you any fans on this forum. That might work on some of those silly forums full of 14 year olds, but it doesn't work here.

    I've seen you complain and complain and complain about O'Brien on this forum in the last few days but you've never really explained why. So yeah, I'm calling you out, give me a detailed explanation of what you don't like about JOB. Basketball is the man's profession and I don't know about you but I wouldn't want someone throwing one liners to me about my job unless they had some sort of legitimate substance to back it up.

  13. #113
    Feed the big fella. Infinite MAN_force's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Dallas' "Pace Factor" (estimate of possessions per 48 minutes) is 91.6, which is slightly below the league average of 91.7 and ranks 17th this season.

    It is lower than Rick's final year here, when the Pacers had a Pace factor of 92.7, which was 10th in the league and above the 91.9 league average. His earlier seasons with the Pacers (in chronological order) were 87.5 (26th), 87.2 (29th), and 89.7 (20th).

    So, he's not slogging it out the way he was the first two years here, but he's not exactly running an up-tempo offense.



    And if Rick were still here, he'd likely be working on his third losing season. O'Brien has one ECF appearance, and currently only one full losing season. Using winning as a barometer assumes the same talent levels, which is certainly not accurate.

    I basically consider Rick and Obie about equal in terms of quality. Both have good traits, and both have flaws. Rick is a little too set-piece for me, and O'Brien is a little too loose, offensively, for my taste. Neither is going to overcome a talent deficit, neither will greatly hamper good talent.

    And, one more thing:



    Your information is about five years out of date. The 96.7 points they're giving up this season is the highest since the 2005 season, when Nellie coached for half the year before Avery took over. The .437 FG% is the best in that time frame, but the previous four years were (chronologically) .438, .443, .447, and .443.

    Using Defensive Rating (points per 100 possessions), this season's 104.6 is the second best in the last five years, with 2007 being 103.2. They are currently 9th in this category, which is where they were last year. Dallas was 5th in 2007, 11th in 2006, and 9th in 2005.

    Rick did not take over Nellie's Mavs, and his defense is basically on a par with where Avery Johnson had it for the last four years.
    Reason prevails again.
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  14. #114
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    If you're going to make legitimate arguments about why you don't like O'Brien that's fine. But throwing silly one-liners at admins isn't going to win you any fans on this forum. That might work on some of those silly forums full of 14 year olds, but it doesn't work here.

    I've seen you complain and complain and complain about O'Brien on this forum in the last few days but you've never really explained why. So yeah, I'm calling you out, give me a detailed explanation of what you don't like about JOB. Basketball is the man's profession and I don't know about you but I wouldn't want someone throwing one liners to me about my job unless they had some sort of legitimate substance to back it up.
    Hey, he might be 14. Is PD an over-21 site or something...

    I think the question has some legitimacy when you consider the contrast in the style between the coaches. IMO, their styles are polar opposites...and usually people tend to favor one of the two. But of course it is always more complicated.

    Maybe the personnel, their level of development, the circumstances of the franchise, etc. dictates that we have a certain type of coach. But some of that goes beyond what is happening on the basketball court and even in practice. I think JOb's greatest value is what he brings as a manager in terms of how he manages PR and the discipline and respect he demands. At this stage, that might be best for the team even if watching games requires a little maalox for some of us.

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    If you're going to make legitimate arguments about why you don't like O'Brien that's fine. But throwing silly one-liners at admins isn't going to win you any fans on this forum. That might work on some of those silly forums full of 14 year olds, but it doesn't work here.

    I've seen you complain and complain and complain about O'Brien on this forum in the last few days but you've never really explained why. So yeah, I'm calling you out, give me a detailed explanation of what you don't like about JOB. Basketball is the man's profession and I don't know about you but I wouldn't want someone throwing one liners to me about my job unless they had some sort of legitimate substance to back it up.
    Are you trying to tell me that just because I disagree with Administration I'm not going to win many friends in this forum? are you kidding me? this is an open forum for a reason, this is a place to communicate even if you agree or disagree.
    Regarding JOB I already said that he is not a good coach, but at this time I know the pacers are not going to the playoffs and I know he is giving the pacers the best chance to get a good lottery pick. People complain about Rick play call(I don't like Rick) but JOB calls every single play too, he is not the coach of the future, but he is the coach for the now(lottery).

    NOTE: call down dcpacersfan, this is just a forum I am also older than you.
    Last edited by vnzla81; 01-03-2009 at 03:53 PM.

  16. #116
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    He's talking about HOW you're speaking to him.

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Wait, did you say Jim calls every play like Rick did?

    Jim doesn't call the play often at all. The whole point of his offense is that it's meant to be random. Calling a set play would defeat the point, which is why O'Brien doesn't often do that.

  18. #118
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    Isn't making up the won / lost values of imaginary scenarios what you do for a living?
    Nah. I don't do quantification. That's for you and the actuaries.
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  19. #119
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Wait, did you say Jim calls every play like Rick did?

    Jim doesn't call the play often at all. The whole point of his offense is that it's meant to be random. Calling a set play would defeat the point, which is why O'Brien doesn't often do that.
    I been to few games and he calls almost every play, he screams the play as soon as the Pg gets the ball, he still is not as bad as Rick.(play calling)

  20. #120
    Member Dr. Awesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Frankly I don't think either coach is right for this team. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Carlisle, even when we lost, it was never because he made wrong decisions. As I said though, I don't think he'd be a good coach for this team. Ideally, I think Avery Johnson would be a perfect coach for us, if we wanted to try a rookie coach I'd take Mark Jackson.

  21. #121
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by Franchise55 View Post
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    Frankly I don't think either coach is right for this team. If I had to pick one, I'd pick Carlisle, even when we lost, it was never because he made wrong decisions. As I said though, I don't think he'd be a good coach for this team. Ideally, I think Avery Johnson would be a perfect coach for us, if we wanted to try a rookie coach I'd take Mark Jackson.
    I agreed, at the same time I think that Rick could have a better record with this team, do you guys remember what he did after the brawl? with not players he got them to the playoffs, I don't like Rick but I still think they could have a better record and we could also see a better set play for Roy in the post just like he did when JO was here, JOB just does not care to play rookies and he only makes plays for PG at the end of games remember JT play calls last year?

  22. #122
    Member Dr. Awesome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    I agreed, at the same time I think that Rick could have a better record with this team, do you guys remember what he did after the brawl? with not players he got them to the playoffs, I don't like Rick but I still think they could have a better record and we could also see a better set play for Roy in the post just like he did when JO was here, JOB just does not care to play rookies and he only makes plays for PG at the end of games remember JT play calls last year?
    I always liked Rick but I agree with the Roy Hibbert part. Carlisle knew you needed a good post game to win and if Roy was dominating, he would take full advantage of it, not sub him out.

    I was thinking the other day, I don't believe O'Brien has ever coached a legitiment post threat. I'm wondering if he can make an adjustment to the post game, because the only decent big hes had in his past(that I am aware of) is Antoine Walker, who is more of a Murphy like player.

  23. #123
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    I loved most of what Rick did from a coaching standpoint. He worked to limit turnovers. He slowed down the offense and focused on shutting down the other team on D. The only bone was throwing it into JO too much. Rick would be a better coach if he had JOb's personality.

    BTW, there's a reason why Rick is coaching the Dallas Mavericks. I don't think a scrub coach would have landed that gig. He has coached some very good franchises in the NBA (Detroit, Indiana, Dallas) and his record speaks for itself.

    JMHO.

  24. #124

    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by iPACER View Post
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    If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.


    Good thought.
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  25. #125

    Default Re: Rick Carlisle vs Jim O'Brien

    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    If you're going to make legitimate arguments about why you don't like O'Brien that's fine. But throwing silly one-liners at admins isn't going to win you any fans on this forum. That might work on some of those silly forums full of 14 year olds, but it doesn't work here.

    I've seen you complain and complain and complain about O'Brien on this forum in the last few days but you've never really explained why. So yeah, I'm calling you out, give me a detailed explanation of what you don't like about JOB. Basketball is the man's profession and I don't know about you but I wouldn't want someone throwing one liners to me about my job unless they had some sort of legitimate substance to back it up.

    Do you realize you are saying you have the right to call out a poster for their reasons, but no one has the right to UB's reasons, due to him being Admin?

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