View Poll Results: Who do you like better? JOb or Rick?

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  • Jim O'Brien

    23 39.66%
  • Rick Carlisle

    35 60.34%
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Thread: The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

  1. #1

    Default The Official "Fire Jim O'Brien!" Thread

    just wanted to know when Jim O' brien will be held accountable for all of these losses. i mean sometimes i wonder what on earth he is doing. he doesn't play McRoberts he takes Hibbert out in the 4th quarter when he was doing good in the 3rd quarter and he did the same w/ Rush in the Milwaukee game. This guy is an average coach. Bird needs to bring in a Avery Johnson or someone like that , that has a winning recipe for success. And what's mind boggling is JOB continues to show that his teams do not and will not play defense... your thoughts?

  2. #2

    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    If "held accountable" means fired, then not 'til the end of this season, or possibly next season. If "held accountable" means Bird looming large and demanding better, then it is probably happening every day.

    If O'Brien is an average coach, he's nevertheless a coach who goes into every game with less talent on the floor than his opponent.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
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    But they never had much use for me
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  3. #3
    Banned Jonathan's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    listened to the game last night but Slick said the problem was this "we have player's on our or team that like to pick @ the ball on defense leaving players wide open." I do not blame the coach for leaving a super-star player like Joe Johnson wide open.

  4. #4
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Not for a while.

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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Our players have heart and hustle and enough talent to be competitive most games. What they don't have is a leader to look to in tight game situations to give them the calm confidence to follow through with the game plan and continue to execute down the stretch despite being dead tired. I believe that this is a function of coaching and game management.

    At every level in basketball, active coaching during the game can make a big difference. While O'Brien does do this more now than he once did, he still makes a lot of mistakes in game flow management and player rotations based on their performance during the game, not just due to the amount of time he plans for them to be on the floor prior to the start of the game.

    Our team generally goes into every game believing it can compete, but unfortunately goes into every game with a less talented coach who lacks the ability to manage the flow of games when his players are not doing so correctly themselves.

  6. #6
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Every coach, every player, every front ofice worker should be held accountable. But your question sems to suggest that "being held accountable" means he should be fired. He should not, these losses aren't his fault.

    I avoided this forum after last nights game because the suggestion that OB should be fird I knew would be brought up and i'm tired of trying to explain why he shouldn't.

    I have been watching a ton of NBA basketball for over 25 years, the Pacers have had a number of coaches some good, some bad, and JOB is one of the best coaches they have had

  7. #7

    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Putnam View Post
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    who goes into every game with less talent on the floor than his opponent.

    Every game? There are teams in every sport thruout the years that have had less talent than their opponents and have had winning teams. There is more than enough talent on this team, even w/o Dunleavy, that it shouldn't be 10-21.

    The person that needs to be held accountable is Bird. He hired the coach, he assembled the players, and he's the one that is allowing the coach to play a gun n gun style game with little "D" with a success of lossing 19 games out of 21 when the Pacers allow a 100 plus points to be scored.

    People say the Pacers are losing the game in the 4th qtr. Hum, how many points did the Hawks have going into the 4th qtr? W/o going and looking it up to be precise in was in the 80's. You can't give up that many points and expect to win a close game in the waning minutes of the 4th qtr.

    Again, who has the power to change things? That's Bird and he's the one that needs to be held accountable.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    This is a rebuilding year.

    Look, you can put me at the very front of the Get Rid of Bird Bandwagon. But I think Bird deserves one more draft and offseason because this team is very far from being a completed project.

    I don't think its much better than a 10-21 team, but I think O'Brien should be accountable for the fact that Rush and Hibbert (and McRoberts and Jack) should be farther along after thirty games. Its one thing to be 10-21 and letting those guys play primary roles and learn from their mistakes. Its another thing to be 10-21 and having us wonder why Daniels and Murphy and Rasho and Foster and Ford keep getting "heavy" minutes.
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  9. #9
    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    He doesn't have talent my butt. Yeah they're not gonna win a title but they have enough talent to be better than they are. I don't even post on this board anymore because of this stupid JOB love affair that some of you have. JOB isn't even average as a coach. Calling JOB average is a complete insult to average coaches everywhere. His mind boggling decisions and late game substitutions are a joke. He doesn't have a go to play that will get you a bucket out of a timeout, and even if he did he'd draw it up for Jarrett Jack. He gives minutes to players that don't deserve them. I've made it clear that in my opinion JOB isn't even fit to coach in a YMCA youth league, and I've seen nothing out of him this season to change my mind.

  10. #10
    Banned Jonathan's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    travmil if we fire JOB we give up on this season is all. Who takes over? We have an intern coach in Lester Conner.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I have been watching a ton of NBA basketball for over 25 years, the Pacers have had a number of coaches some good, some bad, and JOB is one of the best coaches they have had
    UB, I know that you have said more then a few times that J'OB is one of the best coaches that the Pacers have had. I was just wondering what specifics that you had in mind that make him rank that high. I've stated for a while that Jim is a "filler" coach, but your continued glowing praise of him makes me wonder what I'm missing when judging Jim O'Brien from a fans perspective.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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  12. #12

    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Are we going to blame JOB for the recent illnesses? Injuries? Mike D. not playing? Rush shooting horrible recently? Jack taking it coast to coast missing when we could have had the last shot? etc. etc. JOB is not a bad coach just a victim of unusual circumstances this year. He has not lost the team and therein is where the decision comes.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
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    travmil if we fire JOB we give up on this season is all. Who takes over? We have an intern coach in Lester Conner.
    You're right. Firing our coach, albeit now or after the season is a major step backwards. I was on the "JOB isn't doing his job" bandwagon, but now I kind of feel we have a hidden gem in a coach. I really think that Jim is capable of leading a good group of players far, but what we have now is what you see. It won't get much better overnight, but give it time.

    *In some kind of parallel dimension, I would like to see what Ol' Les could do as a head coach.

  14. #14

    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    I don't even post on this board anymore because of this stupid JOB love affair that some of you have. JOB isn't even average as a coach. Calling JOB average is a complete insult to average coaches everywhere. His mind boggling decisions and late game substitutions are a joke.
    O'Brien's coaching is adequate to keep the Pacers close in every game since the Milwaukee blow-out loss. Loss after loss is hard to bear, but the Pacers are playing at a reasonable level despite all those losses.

    The Pacers have outscored their opponent in 5 of the last 6 games (or held the opponent to fewer points than they scored themselves if you want a defensive slant to it) when you consider field goals only. The Pacers pretty consistently give up more free throws than they get, and that has been the margin in losses to the Clippers, Nets, Grizzlies, Hornets and Hawks. Unless he is instructing the players to commit all those fouls, it is hard to blame the coach for player errors.
    And I won't be here to see the day
    It all dries up and blows away
    I'd hang around just to see
    But they never had much use for me
    In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

  15. #15
    The Dude Abides MrSparko's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Who's available exactly that everyone's dying to have?

    I can't wait to see Eddie Jordan lead this same bunch of players to 50 wins next year.
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  16. #16
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
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    UB, I know that you have said more then a few times that J'OB is one of the best coaches that the Pacers have had. I was just wondering what specifics that you had in mind that make him rank that high. I've stated for a while that Jim is a "filler" coach, but your continued glowing praise of him makes me wonder what I'm missing when judging Jim O'Brien from a fans perspective.
    Hey, I saw you on TV last night at the start of the Pacers telecast, you were walking through the concourse.

    I want to address your question, but can't now, and when I answer I want to do it justice, so maybe over the next few days I'll start a thread to explain why I think he is a good coach

  17. #17
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    UNCLEBUCK...remember me challenging you a couple of years ago with..."Welcome to the '80s"? The P's then started games good, got leads, and then lost in the 4th. Night in and Night out. Sound familiar? (Sorry, didnt know where else to put that, so here 'tis)

    Aren't we already paying at least one other guy NOT to coach the Pacers right now? And who's heading up the offices and is Bird's boss now? JOB has as safe a job as any coach could have until the end of his current contract, and then we'll see what happens.
    If you get to thinkin’ you’re a person of some influence, try orderin’ somebody else’s dog around..

  18. #18
    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by travmil View Post
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    He doesn't have talent my butt. Yeah they're not gonna win a title but they have enough talent to be better than they are. I don't even post on this board anymore because of this stupid JOB love affair that some of you have. JOB isn't even average as a coach. Calling JOB average is a complete insult to average coaches everywhere. His mind boggling decisions and late game substitutions are a joke. He doesn't have a go to play that will get you a bucket out of a timeout, and even if he did he'd draw it up for Jarrett Jack. He gives minutes to players that don't deserve them. I've made it clear that in my opinion JOB isn't even fit to coach in a YMCA youth league, and I've seen nothing out of him this season to change my mind.
    couldn't agree more.

  19. #19
    It Might Be a Soft J JayRedd's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Where is this "talent" everyone keeps talking about?

    By my calculations, we have one bona fide NBA starter in Danny, a theoretical NBA starter who has lost his job on every other team he's played on in TJ, and a bunch of bench players.

    Daniels has been playing out of his mind at times this year, but he's not a starter. Troy is an ideal 7th man. Jeff is a specialist off the bench. Rasho is a solid, backup, journeyman center. Jarrett is a suitable backup PG without much vision/creativity.

    No one else has any NBA track record at all.

    Phil Jackson, Pop or Jerry Sloan could maybe have eeked 13 wins out of this slop. Otherwise, he's doing fine.

    And, in fact, it's my position that the reason we've been down to the last possession (NO, PHI, LAL, HOU, ORL, PHI) or at least the last minute (ATL, MEM, DET, BOS, DAL) with a chance to win more than a third of our games, is the fact that teams have a very difficult time matching up to our spread offense. Other teams spend all week gearing up for regular, run-of-the-mill offenses and then have to come to Conseco for the fourth game of a road trip. They are caught off guard and unable to know what's even going on until the third quarter. Even then, they have no solution and can't rotate even near well enough to match up with our shooters or stop our ball reversal penetration.

    More importantly, Danny is thriving in this offense.

    If we had Flip Saunders, Avery Johnson or a more traditional coach, Danny would be easier to game plan for. Instead, we have a wide-open scheme where, even without the screens that Reggie depended on throughout the 90s, there is a genius of floor spacing that allows Danny to get 3-4 uncontested threes per game. Similarly, it is that same phenomenal spacing that creates dribbling lanes for Danny. Last year, he still struggled to find them. This year, he is taking advantage of them greatly. And, now, as he has learned to be aggressive and that he can get to the rim, he not only uses the large holes -- he makes his own and has learned to react to the now quick-to-come double teams on his penetration.

    Maybe he learns how to do this in a different system. Maybe not.

    Regardless, JO'B's offense has given Danny a confidence and tailor-made scoring options that he would never have benefited from otherwise.

    And, to me, that evolution in our only League-wide significant player is worth even a 0-82 season.

    Eventually, Jimmy's scheme will prove unnecessary. It's not really a "Playoff" system. No one wins seven game-series (seres? serieses?) shooting 25 threes a night. But during our franchise's (hopeful) transition back into a legitimate NBA franchise with legitimate NBA talent, his gimmicky system is keeping us competitive. Sure the W/L record doesn't support that, but everyone from CP3 to John Hollinger is continually singing the song that we're much better than our record and that "that's a good team." When it comes to our players, I honestly don't think we're any better than 10-21. But I do think Jim O'Brien and his style is better than that. And it will have some effect on the W/L record before these 82 games are over.
    Last edited by JayRedd; 12-31-2008 at 02:14 PM.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Boy you people have high expectations with a mediocre team.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  21. #21
    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    Where is this "talent" everyone keeps talking about?

    By my calculations, we have one bona fide NBA starter in Danny, a theoretical NBA starter who has lost his job on every other team he's played on in TJ, and a bunch of bench players.

    Daniels has been playing out of his mind at times this year, but he's not a starter. Troy is an ideal 7th man. Jeff is a specialist off the bench. Rasho is a solid, backup, journeyman center. Jarrett is a suitable backup PG without much vision/creativity.

    No one else has any NBA track record at all.

    Phil Jackson, Pop or Jerry Sloan could maybe have eeked 13 wins out of this slop. Otherwise, he's doing fine.

    And, in fact, it's my position that the reason we've been down to the last possession (NO, PHI, LAL, HOU, ORL, PHI) or at least the last minute (ATL, MEM, DET, BOS, DAL) with a chance to win more than a third of our games, is the fact that teams have a very difficult time matching up to our spread offense. Other teams spend all week gearing up for regular, run-of-the-mill offenses and then have to come to Conseco for the fourth game of a road trip. They are caught off guard and unable to know what's even going on until the third quarter. Even then, they have no solution and can't rotate even near well enough to match up with our shooters or stop our ball reversal penetration.

    More importantly, Danny is thriving in this offense.

    If we had Flip Saunders, Avery Johnson or a more traditional coach, Danny would be easier to game plan for. Instead, we have a wide-open scheme where, even without the screens that Reggie depended on throughout the 90s, there is a genius of floor spacing that allows Danny to get 3-4 uncontested threes per game. Similarly, it is that same phenomenal spacing that creates dribbling lanes for Danny. Last year, he still struggled to find them. This year, he is taking advantage of them greatly. And, now, as he has learned to be aggressive and that he can get to the rim, he not only uses the large holes -- he makes his own and has learned to react to the now quick-to-come double teams on his penetration.

    Maybe he learns how to do this in a different system. Maybe not.

    Regardless, JO'B's offense has given Danny a confidence and tailor-made scoring options that he would never have benefited from otherwise.

    And, to me, that evolution in our only League-wide significant player is worth even a 0-82 season.

    Eventually, Jimmy's scheme will prove unnecessary. But during our franchise's (hopeful) transition back into a legitimate NBA franchise with legitimate NBA talent, his gimmicky system is keeping us competitive. Sure the W/L record doesn't support that, but everyone from CP3 to John Hollinger is continually singing the song that we're much better than our record. I honestly don't think our players are. But I do think Jim O'Brien and his style is better than our record.
    Stop giving UB your login info, JayRedd, he's ruining your attempts to become the Paul Walker of this forum.

  22. #22
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    Boy you people have high expectations with a mediocre team.
    They would need to win 11 games in a row to be considered mediocre.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suaveness View Post
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    Boy you people have high expectations with a mediocre team.
    There is a fine line between losing games and blowing games with awful play calling and poor substitutions.

    I've never been one to look at a coach and say "Wow, he just lost the team the game.", but I do it so often with Obie. I'm asking someone here who likes Obie to name me one time all season, that having Jack at SG was a good idea? How about one last possession game that came remotely close to working?

    I didn't see the Rockets game, I know we scored on the last second possession, but it looked more like a broken play than anything else, but I can't say for sure. In most other games, his play every single time is "Give it to the PG for a one on one." Its that simple, and the few times he draws something else up - its a turnover before we even shoot it.

    Jim O'Brien is incapable of coaching a middle school team. How he convinced Bird otherwise is beyond me.

  24. #24
    Member LG33's Avatar
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    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    I thought O'Brien was known for overacheiving with less talented teams. I mean, Paul Pierce and Antoine Walker to the Eastern Conference Finals...

    Also, I apologize if my expectations of this team are higher than 11 games under .500. I must be drinking too much of that sunshiner kool-aid. I just wonder, because I went back to the preseason prediction threads and saw that everybody predicted 29 or more wins - and the vast majority over 35 wins, why so many people claim to have expected us to be so bad. I mean, I know we lost Dunleavy, but who thinks this team is anything but underacheiving right now?

    Teams have won with less talent and teams have lost with more talent.

  25. #25

    Default Re: When will jim O'brien be held accountable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Franchise55 View Post
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    How he convinced Bird otherwise is beyond me.

    Had a nice voice on the phone interview.

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