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Thread: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

  1. #1
    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    This summer, Bird and Morway decided to trade Bayless and Ike for Jack, McRoberts and Rush. When I first saw that trade I was kind of upset because of the talent that Bayless is supposed to possess. If you look at the trade now, it was actaully a smart and safe trade done by the Pacers. Ford has missed a few games this season which was expected. If we hadnt made this trade, our PG situation would have been Bayless (rookie) and Diener.

    Now we are able to absorb the lose of Ford by starting Jack. Now that I think about this trade, Im glad Bird pulled the trigger. To me this trade was more of an insurance policy incase Ford goes down
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



  2. #2

    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Not sure how I feel about the trade yet. I have very high hopes for Bayless, and I don't think a team should pass up a star for a good player(s).

    I think Brandon is a good player as it stands, and he was one of my favorites coming out of college, but I only see marginal improvement in his future. Not a bad thing at all, but I expect Bayless to be super.

    I liked Ike, but it looks like he'll never improve on his weaknesses.

    I've been really disappointed in Jarrett Jack, so far. He's really struggling defensively (1 on 1 and team) and has made some unbelievable turnovers, but his toughness is sorely needed. I think he's trying way too hard. I expect him to loosen up eventually, but I'm unsure of whether or not he'll improve his defensive awareness (gets lost way too easily), and he's shown no improvement on coughing up the ball late in the game, which he did his rookie season.

    McRoberts could be the X factor in this trade, if he turns into a serviceable 6th-7th man or better. My expectations with Josh were so low without seeing him play, but he's been a huge positive so far.

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    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    I'm not going to say that the trade for Jack was an "insurance policy" for Ford. We needed a little more depth at the 1, or this team would continue to have serious problems at that position.

  4. #4
    Member Jon Theodore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Diener is a much better backup PG for this team than Jarrett Jack is. I would rather have Anthony Johnson than Jarrett Jack.

    If McRoberts can become a Foster type player, then it is a good trade he is the X Factor. This team could really use the talent of bayless, if nothing else Bayless was a tradeable asset.
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    Member jeffg-body's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    I still like the trade myself. IMHO Jack is a good back up PG that can start at times when needed. I think his inconsistency has been in part due to getting used to his new team. McRoberts has been a nice surprise to me and I would like to see him get a bit more playing time to see what we have gotten.

  6. #6
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffg-body View Post
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    IMHO Jack is a good back up PG that can start at times when needed. I think his inconsistency has been in part due to getting used to his new team.
    And due to the fact that we keep playing him at the 2.
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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    It's very difficult to judge at this point. If a Bayless/Ike for Jack/Rush/McBob trade were offered today, I would still take it.

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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    People were complaining that Bayless was a SG trapped in a PG's body but aren't we using Jack as a 2 quite a bit? I like Rush and McRoberts a lot, but who knows how Bayless is going to pan out. I could live with the trade either way, what's done is done.
    "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

  9. #9

    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerTime View Post
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    This summer, Bird and Morway decided to trade Bayless and Ike for Jack, McRoberts and Rush. When I first saw that trade I was kind of upset because of the talent that Bayless is supposed to possess. If you look at the trade now, it was actaully a smart and safe trade done by the Pacers. Ford has missed a few games this season which was expected. If we hadnt made this trade, our PG situation would have been Bayless (rookie) and Diener.

    Now we are able to absorb the lose of Ford by starting Jack. Now that I think about this trade, Im glad Bird pulled the trigger. To me this trade was more of an insurance policy incase Ford goes down
    you make some good points, but only if the pacers were at least a .500 ballclub. as is, the pacers are 10-21 meaning the players we do have clearly aren't good enough or talented enough to get it done.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Bayless was a lot of hope coming into his freshman year. He was thought to be a top 5 pick but obviously his stock fell for whatever reason.

    I was excited when he did fall to us and pissed when we traded him. However once taking a step back and looking at the trade I was ok with it and think it was a good deal for us.

    Who knows how good Bayless or Rush will be? I think that Bayless can be a big time scorer in this league and play the point but the question is can he do that for a top 5 team? Time will tell. Rush can a real good player, someone compared him to Eddie Jones and I like that. If both reach their potential I don't think that it's a bad deal for either side it's just a matter of what your team needs/wants.

    Had Bayless not been projected to be a top 5 talent we wouldn't be having this conversation. Maybe the media just over hyped Bayless.

    I like Jack and McRoberts too. Jack isn't the point guard of the future. He isn't perfect. He has his faults just like all backups do. But I think people are forgeting just how bad the point guard situation was last year. Maybe you forgot watching the Pacer's point guards from last year but I think Jack is a pretty big upgrade over what we had. With that said I still like Travis Diener and I think he can give us good minutes, just shouldn't be one of our top point guards. Perfect third stringer though.

    As of late I really like what McRoberts has shown. He is a keeper. Before I thought of him as a scrub and not worth keeping around long but the way he has played when given time he is a keeper to me. Much better player than Ike Diogu has shown to be thus far.

    It's still early to tell how the two rookies will turn out but as of now it doesn't look like a bad deal for the Pacers.

  11. #11
    Running with the Big Boys BillS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    It's very difficult to judge at this point. If a Bayless/Ike for Jack/Rush/McBob trade were offered today, I would still take it.
    I hope you mean "if WE had Bayless/Ike and Portland had Jack/Rush/McBob then you'd still take the trade" ...
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  12. #12
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Still too early to judge. I expect 2-3 years before Bayless shows us what he can do.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    Still too early to judge. I expect 2-3 years before Bayless shows us what he can do.

    I disagree. The only time you can judge is right when it happened. Anyone can judge it three years later when it's been quantified by stats and records. Trades should only be judged on what management knew at the time and what they were basing it on.

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by YoSoyIndy View Post
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    I disagree. The only time you can judge is right when it happened. Anyone can judge it three years later when it's been quantified by stats and records. Trades should only be judged on what management knew at the time and what they were basing it on.
    So then, the DD for JO trade was a bad deal for us? DD was the better player at the time.

  15. #15
    FREE LANCE MillerTime's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    So then, the DD for JO trade was a bad deal for us? DD was the better player at the time.
    Great point. Same with Dirk for Tractor Trailor
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



  16. #16
    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    GMs sometimes make decisions for the long term while sacrificing the short term.

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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    So then, the DD for JO trade was a bad deal for us? DD was the better player at the time.
    I just typed a reply but it didn't post correctly, so here goes again.

    I didn't think it was a bad trade at the time. We can obviously say it turned out better for us over time as JO turned into a superstar and a top Pacers player of all time.

    At the time of the trade, Dale was leaving his prime and JO had been sitting on the bench because Dunleavy Sr didn't like him and JO had better players ahead of him at his position.

    By giving it several years to judge the trade, you're basically saying, "If Rush and Jack are better than Bayless, then it was worth it. If Bayless turns into a superstar, then the trade was a bust." Any kid can figure that out. The tough part is judging a decision on the information that was known at the time.

    For example, if the Pacers knew (or should have known) that Bender's knees were what they are, then they made a bad call. If doctors and/or training staff had no reason to believe that Bender didn't have any real knees, then you can't hold that against Donnie Walsh years later.

    This is a basic logical fallacy -- outcome bias.

  18. #18
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Yeah, too early to draw any conclusions. Except to say, so far so good. But in three years who knows

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    Go Colts! Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    You all know how I feel about Bayless and the trade, so I reserve the right to say "I told you so" if it doesn't pan out for us.

  20. #20
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    So then, the DD for JO trade was a bad deal for us? DD was the better player at the time.
    I'll say it. Yes, it was a bad deal for us.

  21. #21
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    I agree with Peck and will go one further by saying the AD for JB trade was the snowball in what has become an avalanche of poor decisions by this franchise. I'm aware that both AD & DD expressed desires to be traded etc...This team has made bad coaching choices. I say that not necessarily meaning the coaches were bad but probably not the right guys at the right time. For example Carlisle should have been the choice after Bird not Zeke. But Brown should have replaced Thomas not Carlisle. There have been drafting problems, trade problems, free agent snafu's, bad contract extentions, questionable public comments etc...They've been Donnie's, Larry's, Simon's, Morway's etc...Then the coaching staffs have made their share of poor decisions when it comes to discipline, rotations, favoritism, public comments(or lack thereof). Of course the players haven't lived up to expectations, which most of the time were conservative. Nobody expected Jamaal to be a perennial all-star or Jackson to fill the shoes of Reggie etc..but they could have at least been men.

  22. #22
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    The Portland trade looked bad at first. Now I'm just undecided. Jack isn't the long term solution to backup PG. We'll have to see how Rush & Bayless pan out, so far Rush has a tremendous advantage. Of course he's getting minutes on one of the worst teams in the NBA and I'm pretty sure Bayless would be seeing the court for the Pacers too.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I agree with Peck and will go one further by saying the AD for JB trade was the snowball in what has become an avalanche of poor decisions by this franchise..
    So you thought it was a bad trade at the time? I don't see how. We took depth and traded it for fair market value -- that's how teams

    There's no way you were down on the trade on the last game of the regular season when Bender went up for that alley oop dunk. The crowd couldn't believe the play even though he missed it. So many fans in my section made comments about Bender being the real deal.

    To me, it gets old hearing people bash moves after unknown issues come out. Like I said, if the team had no way of knowing about Bender's knees, then you can't hold them accountable for that.

  24. #24
    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    I was 23 and remember the trade announcement during the draft. Hated it. Hated it even more when Bender did nothing to get us to the finals and AD could have been a tremendous help during that series against Shaq. That trade marked the onset of the core of that team being dismantled.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Looking Back at the Recent Portland Trade

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
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    I was 23 and remember the trade announcement during the draft. Hated it. Hated it even more when Bender did nothing to get us to the finals and AD could have been a tremendous help during that series against Shaq. That trade marked the onset of the core of that team being dismantled.
    Come on -- Antonio was not a Shaq stopper and wouldn't have changed the outcome. No one could defend Shaq then.

    How could you have expected an 18-19 year old rookie to help a team of veterans go to the Finals? Why would you expect that?

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