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Thread: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

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    Default Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    One of cable television's highest rated shows stars Kyra Sedgwick, the actress wife of Kevin Bacon, as a detective working for Los Angeles Police Department as head of what they call their Priority Homicide Division. The entire plot of the show is that she was brought in to finish difficult cases that LAPD couldn't seem to get finished.....the name of the show is, appropriately, "The Closer."

    While I'm not recommending we bring a Hollywood actress to help run our franchise, I do think our Pacers are in desperate, more than any team in the league perhaps, would be helped by obtaining a "closer"....someone who gets the job done, regardless of how it may look or feel.

    To be clear, I'm not talking about a "closer" in an offensive sense, as it is usually referred to in basketball. I am instead referring to our inability to stop teams from scoring, particularly in crunch time, but in reality all throughout the game. Consider some following stats:

    The Pacers are 10-19 as I currently write this. As of now, the are I believe the 4th or 5th worst field goal percentage defense in the league, and while I havent looked it up lately, we also foul I think more than most teams in the league, giving up more foul shots by far than the average NBA team, with the usual exception of Utah.

    In spite of that, in those 19 losses, we have had the lead in the 4th quarter a staggering 12 times! In addition to that, I believe we have been within 1 possession during the final 3 minutes 8 of those losses, and have been (by my unofficial count) ahead 5 different times in the last 20 seconds, only to see our opponents score baskets at the end of games to either win or send games into overtime, where we have also been pitiful. Someone else can list all the specific games, but off the top of my head at midnight on a Saturday night I can think of the Boston game (Ray Allen hits a three), the Charlotte game at home (Ray Felton sends it into overtime) and the New Jersey game this week (Devin Harris scores at the buzzer). I know there have been a few more....after a while, it becomes hard to keep track.

    Our lack of ability to make any team in the league struggle offensively, no matter how poor they may be, is the single biggest factor in my view of why we aren't 16-13, or 14-15, or somewhere much better than we currently are at least. Coming from a coaching perspective, our defense is so abysmal at times that it makes us difficult to watch, even when we win a shootout against a fellow doormat such as Golden State this week.

    I believe the time has come to at least start to ask some difficult questions of ourselves, to our Pacers, and to our fellow fans. As I see it, the defensive problems at their core can be boiled down to three central elements: Effort, scheme, and talent. This thread will attempt to hit all three topics, and hopefully create some quality discussion.

    I'll discuss effort first.

    The popular thing I read or hear from casual fans, and sometimes on here, is that the Pacers are downtrodden, but at least we are happy with the effort they are giving. I know it makes us feel better to think that and verbalize it, but isn't this just damning with faint praise?

    I expected and demanded effort from my teams in my coaching days, and I expect it from my employees and myself everyday. I am sure most of you experience those feelings everyday too at your jobs. Giving your best, your maximum effort, as a professional athlete is not only expected, it should be a given. I no longer will give our Pacers a pass for incredibly bad or stupid play defensively just because of the shadow word of "hustle" or "effort". That is a staple, not a bonus plan....nothing for me to be excited about anymore, and you shouldn't lower your expectations of success just because your team seems to "hustle", if they are completely unsuccessful while doing so!

    Everyone, and me included until now, has been over-rating our team's hustle and effort anyway, I guess because it makes us feel better about things, I don't know. But effort has to come from the mental side too, and if our "effort" was truly so great then we should be seeing at least some marginal improvement collectively by now. We aren't seeing that, in fact I think we are regressing defensively.

    Praising effort can be a cop out for fans to say something nice about bad teams. Here in Bloomington, you often here about the IU fans (of which I am one and proud of it) praise this years team for always hustling and "playing hard". People say that, but they don't know what it really means at times. You see a player hustle after a loose ball or just get to help side in time to take a charge, and everybody says "great effort!". Well, it isn't always great effort, in fact it is often because the player was late and out of position to start with, thereby creating a driving lane...if the player on defense truly was demonstrating "great effort", he would have been in the right place to begin with, and the drive may never have been attempted.

    My bottom line is this: Playing hard or semi hard most nights isn't good enough for me. My standards are higher than that, and our team should be better defensively than it is. We don't improve, we don't get tougher, we don't get physical, and lately, we don't seem all that bothered as a team or as fans even when our defense becomes more and more porous. In fact, there is a certain human nature that wants us to just accept it for what it is....but acceptance of failure is, well, unacceptable!

    Maybe its just the late hour, our my cranky mood, but our Pacers are starting to just roll over and accept the losing I am afraid, and I'm afraid it is happening here too among us. Realism is one thing, but accepting mediocre effort and results is something else. No more lip service to playing tougher defense guys, either get the job done, or we will find someone else who will.....that is the type of message I am longing to hear someone say on the coaching staff.

    That is a good lead-in to my next discussion point, which is our defensive scheme, and the ability of our coaches to get it to work.

    I hear people say often that our scheme is similar to what Boston runs. Well, I am a coach/scout by trade, and I breakdown teams on film at the high school level alot. Either we are trying to do something more complex than Boston that to me is unidentifiable, or we just completely stink at doing what the coaches are attempting to install. Regardless, something will need to change from a coaching standpoint defensively, because we are beyond porous.

    Our perimeter guys, especially it seems to me our point guards although they arent the only culprits, are still getting beat WAY to easily and too often off the dribble. This is causing our alreadly slow and weak inside guys to have to overreact and help too much, and our complicated rotations out of help are way too slow, and therefore we give up easy jumpers uncontested way too often.

    Other problems exist too of course. Our screen/roll defensive scheme has cost us at least 2 games at the end I can think of (Boston game and one more I can't remember), when our big man INEXPLICABLY, when helping "hedge" on the ballhandler/shooter, LEFT THE BALL TOO SOON to rotate back to his man (before the original defender was in position) and gave up an open three point shot to beat us eventually. In the Boston game at Conseco, it was Jeff Foster (a vet who should know better) who left RAY FREAKIN ALLEN alone at the top of the circle with the Pacers ahead 3. Allen of course nailed the three ahead of a flailing attempt by a too late Marquis Daniels, and the Pacers lost eventually.

    We are not "tied together" very well defensively. Do you want something to watch in a Pacer game to prove this? One of the keys to man to man defense that is successful is the theory of "jumping to the ball". That is the principle of when the opponent makes a pass, that all 5 of your defenders should slide toward the ball one slide, in a defensive stance, reacting as one force to help stop the shot. I cannot tell you how much a typical high school team in this state that is well taught practices that....it is an old fundamental. Some coaches (including yours truly) have tied the defenisve players together by rope even, FORCING them to move as one in help position. The oldest defensive drill in the world is the "4 man shell drill".....and the Pacers look like they've never heard of it. Watch how the Pacers weakside defenders do not all react jointly to a pass, and you'll see what I mean.

    You know what? Maybe our scheme is too complicated for our players, because maybe we have the dumbest players in the league. This is a defensive thread I know, but how many times will Jarrett Jack need to leave his feet with no where to pass and turn it over in the last 2 minutes to learn not to do that? How many times will we leave a great shooter wide open at crunch time when we leave the basketball for no reason? For a professional basketball team full of players who have played their entire lives preparing for these moments, we make a ton of silly mistakes.

    Which leads me to a lack of talent. Obviously, we lack some in this area. But again, I've always told my teams that intelligence and heart and effort can make you a quality defensive team. But in reality even I know that heart and "want to" can only take you so far. We badly need an influx of defensive individual talent...... our seemingly shoddy scheme might look a little better if we didn't have such dopes trying to execute it perhaps.

    We need several new pieces to be a good defensive team in the future. I go back and forth about what order we need them with this group, but I'll stick with my normal philosophy I think and put them in this order:

    1. An elite wing defender to guard the opponents best player so Granger doesnt have to. I know everyone is semi happy with Marquis Daniels and his offensive contributions, but in reality he is a sieve at times. Granger is a nice shot blocker and I think does play more physically like I like defensively, but we still need a bookend to play next to him.

    2. We badly need a physical, strong enforcer inside....a Dale Davis type player who can intimidate physically. The Pacers have the softest bigs in the league as we know. Taking charges is nice, and our bigs do it well, but if we had better defenders on the perimeter and an enforcer inside to punish drivers, maybe teams wouldnt just dunk on us with impunity like they do now. Maybe an intimidator would keep teams from wanting to drive in the first place, especially if we committed some hard fouls! In reality, we may need a couple of guys like this....and they aren't as easy to come by as you would hope.

    3. I had higher hopes for the Ford/Jack combo as a defensive pairing. Jack in particular is getting exposed at times when playing the point, and I may be the only one, but I absolutely despise playing these 2 players together. I think playing them together, combined with our already soft as charmin front line, makes us the pansiest team in the NBA. I need further study about these 2 players defensively to see if them in combination can play the position defensively the way I want. If I decide not, I may be pushing to draft a point guard in June, when back in October I would never have though that.

    Speaking of the draft, there is a distinct lack of anyone I consider a superior wing defender in the draft, with the possible exception of Earl Clark from Louisville...and he is iffy to me as a potential lockdown defender. I see no real "tough guy" big power forwards either, other than Blake Griffin who I think will be an outstanding pro, an all NBA level player eventually. Other than him I don't see a tough guy who has the other skills to play next to Roy Hibbert in the future, so Larry is going to have to be creative I think to fill these holes with players already in the league I think. I like Thabeet from UCONN alot as a center anchor of defense so far, but I question whether he and Hibbert could play together, and I'm not willing to write off Roy yet at all, and in reality all those players will likely be gone by our eventual pick anyway. I think we likely will need to go the free agent route, using our MLE, or creative sign and trades.

    One potential answer I think is the Lakers Trevor Ariza, who I think we should make priority number one for next summer. He is an unrestricted free agent, is likely to leave LA for a starting spot and more money, and most teams will be saving up for the summer of 2010. We will have money coming off the books in Daniels and Nesterovic, so he should be affordable, and he makes a ton of sense. No reason I can't start the drumbeat now for him, so some of you can watch him play the rest of the season with a closer eye and give us your opinions on him. I think he is perfect for one of the pieces we need to become a great defensive team.

    I am very concerned about the team style and identity we are seemingly going for, or at least that Jim O'Brien is going for. I think we are soft, weak, play too small, and play too.....immature?....gutless?....wimpy? I don't know what word I would describe us now, but what I envision us being is tough, physically strong, intimidating, smart, enthusiastic.....and "relentless". I hate to quote Isiah, but he once said in his tenure that we "need some dogs". I agree with that....we need some junkyard dogs in here!

    How much help would it be, for instance, to have a player like a Paul Milsap, or Trevor Ariza (I view him as a perimeter guard dog), or to go back in the past, a player like Rick Mahorn or Dale Davis? I think it could help a ton, and it is the direction that we need to go. I envision us as being the toughest, hardest to play against, most physical team in the league, not some pansy collection of jump shooters who play matador defense and try to outscore you.

    Regardless of what players are here and how we play, I am and will always remain a loyal fan....after all, that is what I am and what I do, and I am sure many of you can relate. But my loyality doesnt need to be blind, and it doesnt mean I can't question things.

    Larry Bird: it's time to start acquiring some players who can be athletic and mentally and physically tough enough to defend with pride, and who would rather bleed and cause blood to flow than give up a drive or a jump shot.

    Jim O'Brien: it's time to quit paying lip service to defense, and to actually start demanding it be played well and played correctly. It's time to quit worrying about protecting your job, and to start doing your job! It's time to either get the players to buy in, to simplify your scheme, or to coach it and teach it better. It's time to get your assistant coaches involved, and perhaps to its time to quit being so stubborn offensively and to use your offense to help hide your swiss cheese defense.

    Players: it's time to quit blaming injuries, youth, inexperience, and all the other crap excuses that the media in our town and the fans and staff may give you. It's time to suck it up and take some individual pride in stopping someone. it is time to study harder, scout better, play with even more effort and tenacity, it is time to concentrate, be more determined, and to be tougher. It's time to quit making excuses, and to start making plays that can win ballgames on the defensive end.

    Fans: it's time to start holding people accountable for their play, and to raise our expectations above where they are now. We are starting to become enablers by accepting passively terrible play, and sometimes poor effort. We need to start being more demanding of this team, and not just lay back and accept our fate.

    In fact, I think that is the key word: Accountability. It is time we had some regarding this team's performance, starting right now. The business side is solid now, and we have good citizens and people. All that is awesome, but I expect alot more from my favorite team than having a group of solid citizens who get their butts kicked every night.


    As always, the above is just my opinion.

    Tbird
    Last edited by thunderbird1245; 12-28-2008 at 07:39 AM.

  2. #2
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick



    I don't know what to add other than that. I whole-heartedly agree.

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    [Kristen Wiig]CONFEEEESSSS!!![/Kristen Wiig]

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    Headband and Rec Specs rexnom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Wait. Why do we need a wing defender? How is that a concern when Rush-Granger are our starting wings of the future?

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    Member Dr. Goldfoot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    I like the fact that this post is coming from T-bird. It will garner more attention than if I had somehow come up with it. I'm also happy that you didn't mangle it with all of that boring technical speak you usually bombard us with . It's a pretty sound assessment of this team, this board and those who call the Pacers their team. I'd really like to see T-bird & UB have a civilized discussion on the current state of the defense from coaching/scheme/players etc...

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    TBird, long but interesting read....at least the parts that I skimmed through. Regarding the running our "Team Defense", something that I thought can be effective but requires that ALL 5 Players be in absolute sync in order for it to work....I have 4 questions.

    1 ) Doesn't acquiring or drafting a Player with a High Basketball IQ....a clear requirement for a Player to properly fit into the Offense and ( most notably ) Defense....limit the # of Players that we should be interested?

    Sure, we can look for some athletic freak that can rebound and block shots like Stromile Swift or tried to go after a perimeter defender like Mickael Pietrus....but both are known to be "dumb as rocks" when it comes to Basketball IQ...so they wouldn't really fit the Team. I have always been under the impression that one of the reasons ( other then being the most NBA-Ready ) why we went after Hibbert ( a smarter more fundamentally sound but clearly not the most athletic Player in the draft ) as opposed to someone like JaVale McGee or Jason Thompson ( both Players that can be considered more offensively and athletically gifted ) was due to Hibbert's high Basketball IQ....one of the requirements of Players that I thought that we have to have for anyone on our team....not only to understand how they fit into the offense but ( most notably ) the Team Defense concept. I'm not diminishing the benefits of having Players with a high Basketball IQ.....cuz I would much rather have a smart Basketball Player as opposed to a stupid one.....but it would seem that the # of options that we would have to improve our team would be limited.

    2 ) Do you think that we run too much of a complex defensive system for Players to properly implement?

    This goes back to the notion of having Players with High Basketball IQs. Not only does our offense seem to require Players that are Athletic to properly excel in the Offensive and Defensive end....but it requires them to have the smarts to properly implement the defense since the whole notion of Team Defense hinges on everyone doing everything right in order for it to work. This was one of the reasons why I suspect that Diogu was moved.....he was a pure Low-Post scorer ( something that we lack now )...but couldn't grasp the Team Defense and therefore never fit JO'Bs team.

    3 ) Given the players that we have, basically a team with pourous perimeter defense and soft interior defenders, are we running the right type of defense?

    From what I have seen of this team so far, I get the impression that we can go one of 2 ways......wait til next season to try to address the 2 problems that you mention ( acquire/draft a wing defender and interior defensive presense ) and stick with the same defensive system that we run OR completely scrap the Team Defense concept and change our Defensive system to one that may fit the likely 8-9 Players that we will have in our primary rotation for the next 2-3 seasons.

    4 ) Since you appear to be much smarter then me when it comes to Basketball matters, do we actually run a similiar type of defense that the Celtics run?

    You ( as well as others in the past ) brought up the notion that "in theory" the Pacers defense is similiar "in nature" to Boston's defense. Obviously, the Celtics defense is the best in the league while ours is one of the worst. I don't see the similiarity.....with the obvious difference in the pace of the offense ( which I understand can affect the defense ).

    As for our Wing Defenders, you touch AGAIN on something that we have discussed before.......in the previous offseason, we both agreed that we needed to pursue a Player like Quiton Ross.....a roleplaying Guard lockdown type perimeter Defender. After seeing how Ariza harassed, hounded and shutdown Granger in the 4th QTR of the most recent Pacer/Laker game.....I couldn't agree more that IF we have to pursue a Wing Defender in the 2009 Offseason that we should try to make a run for him. There is a reason why top Lockdown defenders are locked down for 3 or 4 year contracts....every team needs one and once they get one...they are locked up for $3-5 mil a year type contracts. Anyone know if Ariza is a Restricted or Unrestricted FA for the Lakers?
    Last edited by CableKC; 12-28-2008 at 03:58 AM.
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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Quote Originally Posted by rexnom View Post
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    Wait. Why do we need a wing defender? How is that a concern when Rush-Granger are our starting wings of the future?
    I am not as high on Rush as several on this board are, although I think potentially he could develop into a fine NBA player and potential starting level player.

    But, in my mind, he projects to be a 6th-7th man type....sort of a well-rounded supersub who can do multiple things well but who doesn't have one super-skill. He projects to me, in an ideal setting, to be a James Posey level player......a key member of the rotation, first or second sub off the bench for a really good team.

    Tbird

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    I didn't realize Trevor Ariza was so young, he's in his 4th year in the league and he's only 23.

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    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    I am all about Ariza and have been for a while. He's a lockdown wing in waiting. LA absolutely fleeced Orlando IMO in the deal where they acquired him. Rush and Granger are or will be good defenders, but not great defenders. Ariza has a chance to reach that level.

    I also agree with disappointment at the PG so far. Of course it's better than Tins, but their defense is less than I'd imagined and they both have TO/decision making issues, Jack's lately coming at the most inopportune times.

    As I've grown more disillusioned with the absolute lack of defense as the season has progressed, I have begun to wonder about scheme and coaching. This is a complaint/critique that many here suggested last season, as well. So, apparently, it has not been resolved.

    However, given our glaring deficiency in defensive talent, what type of overhaul or scheme change can maximize our play?

    I do like the fact that the team consistently plays hard. On the other hand, your point about players focusing their effort, taking responsibility, increasing team play, etc. so that the effort becomes more high quality is on target. The base effort has been consistent but the quality of effort (or how it translates into actual performance) seems to be dropping off.
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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbird1245 View Post
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    Our lack of ability to make any team in the league struggle offensively, no matter how poor they may be, is the single biggest factor in my view of why we aren't 16-13, or 14-15, or somewhere much better than we currently are at least. Coming from a coaching perspective, our defense is so abysmal at times that it makes us difficult to watch, even when we win a shootout against a fellow doormat such as Golden State this week.
    I agree with you that (from the games I've seen at least) our defense is really, really bad. Defense at PG is an especially large issue. Maybe I'm acting as the antithesis of everything that you're posting, but it really doesn't bother me an incredible amount this year because we're still growing so much as a team. Our team is made up almost exclusively of new players who haven't played a lot together and I'm willing to give the abysmal defense a pass until January, where I'm really hoping that we show at least some improvement. If it stays this bad or gets worse throughout this year though, I will become more concerned.

    The popular thing I read or hear from casual fans, and sometimes on here, is that the Pacers are downtrodden, but at least we are happy with the effort they are giving. I know it makes us feel better to think that and verbalize it, but isn't this just damning with faint praise?
    Not really. As a team we are deficient when it comes to talent and we are an underdog almost every night. We're just removed from the brawl and subsequent PR mistakes that totally decapitated this franchise. It's going to take time for the Pacers to become the Pacers again. We're a traditionally good franchise and I know we'll get there again. But like Portland's rise back to respectability, it's going to take some time.


    Maybe its just the late hour, our my cranky mood, but our Pacers are starting to just roll over and accept the losing I am afraid, and I'm afraid it is happening here too among us.
    It is not possible for a fan to "roll over and accept losing" while also acknowledging the effort and hustle that a team puts in night in and night out, especially a talent deficient team. If Brandon Rush comes off a screen perfectly but misses the jump shot, I acknowledge his effort for getting in position to make the shot but my acknowledgment comes with the future expectation that he will hit that shot most of the time. But since he is a rookie, I am willing to give him a pass and applaud his effort. BUT THAT ONLY COMES WITH EXPECTATION OF FUTURE RESULTS.

    Realism is one thing, but accepting mediocre effort and results is something else. No more lip service to playing tougher defense guys, either get the job done, or we will find someone else who will.....that is the type of message I am longing to hear someone say on the coaching staff.
    I really think we will. You truly don't think this team is a finished product, do you?

    As for your Ariza talk, well, good luck with that. Phil Jackson isn't going to take anyone on this roster for Ariza, LA is really high on him right now. Ariza was a pretty unsung player in Orlando and we're going to have to do something similar in plucking a good defensive player off of another team's bench.

    I think Rush will be a very good defender on the NBA level. Of course, I don't get to watch every Pacer game, but he looked great (most of the time) guarding Caron Butler in the Washington game this year.
    Last edited by idioteque; 12-28-2008 at 02:49 PM.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcpacersfan View Post
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    I agree with you that (from the games I've seen at least) our defense is really, really bad. Defense at PG is an especially large issue. Maybe I'm acting as the antithesis of everything that you're posting, but it really doesn't bother me an incredible amount this year because we're still growing so much as a team. Our team is made up almost exclusively of new players who haven't played a lot together and I'm willing to give the abysmal defense a pass until January, where I'm really hoping that we show at least some improvement. If it stays this bad or gets worse throughout this year though, I will become more concerned.

    Not really. As a team we are deficient when it comes to talent and we are an underdog almost every night. We're just removed from the brawl and subsequent PR mistakes that totally decapitated this franchise. It's going to take time for the Pacers to become the Pacers again. We're a traditionally good franchise and I know we'll get there again. But like Portland's rise back to respectability, it's going to take some time.


    It is not possible for a fan to "roll over and accept losing" while also acknowledging the effort and hustle that a team puts in night in and night out, especially a talent deficient team. If Brandon Rush comes off a screen perfectly but misses the jump shot, I acknowledge his effort for getting in position to make the shot but my acknowledgment comes with the future expectation that he will hit that shot most of the time. But since he is a rookie, I am willing to give him a pass and applaud his effort. BUT THAT ONLY COMES WITH EXPECTATION OF FUTURE RESULTS.

    I really think we will. You truly don't think this team is a finished product, do you?

    As for your Ariza talk, well, good luck with that. Phil Jackson isn't going to take anyone on this roster for Ariza, LA is really high on him right now. Ariza was a pretty unsung player in Orlando and we're going to have to do something similar in plucking a good defensive player off of another team's bench.

    I think Rush will be a very good defender on the NBA level. Of course, I don't get to watch every Pacer game, but he looked great (most of the time) guarding Caron Butler in the Washington game this year.
    I very much agree with this post.


    (RE: Ariza - He will be an Unrestricted Free Agent next summer, but he would be wise to stay with LA.)
    Last edited by count55; 12-28-2008 at 03:19 PM.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Truly enjoyable post to read, especially in regards to what I have been saying as of late... lack of "D" with a coach who has a shootout mentality who isn't getting his job done as the teacher when it comes to getting his team to playing "D". He's all lip service about playing "D" with no substance in getting it done.

    I truly believe T-Bird hit the nail on the head about so many fans are willing to accept low expectations and standards with this team giving a 1,001 excuses why the Pacers aren't/shouldn't be better.

    Am I the only one that thought T-Bird came just short of saying that JO'B wasn't getting the job done as a coach with the players he has and with the system he's trying to instill, and that maybe another coach was needed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I very much agree with this post.


    (RE: Ariza - He will be an Unrestricted Free Agent next summer, but he would be wise to stay with LA.)

    Absolutely, he has a great chance of winning 1 or more championships there. What's he got a chance of winning with the Pacers? A few playoff games?

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    He might come if he's looking to be a bigger piece of a team.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Tyme View Post
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    Absolutely, he has a great chance of winning 1 or more championships there. What's he got a chance of winning with the Pacers? A few playoff games?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    He might come if he's looking to be a bigger piece of a team.
    Well, what I meant was that he was in a perfect situation: a good team where he can just be an athlete. If he take a bigger contract or goes to a team where he will be expected to be the key defensive stopper or a starter, odds are he turns that he will not enjoy anywhere the personal success he has with no expectations being placed on him.

    I have to wonder if he's not a bad contract waiting to happen.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    I suspect he is a bad contract waiting to happen.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    I would say we are the hm... the word I'd like to use probably won't fly, wussiest team in the league, and it hurts to see and say that.

    I miss so much the days of Artest/good JO/Stephen Jackson playing balls to the wall no easy buckets defense with Tinsley ball hawking 2 steals a game. People were scared to play us, because any shot in the paint meant you were getting hammered. We turned Iverson into a 20 foot jump shooter, he was scared, and he was the toughest guy in the league.

    God that was a good team... I like pretty much nothing about us now, other than the jersey.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Dece View Post
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    I would say we are the hm... the word I'd like to use probably won't fly, wussiest team in the league, and it hurts to see and say that.

    I miss so much the days of Artest/good JO/Stephen Jackson playing balls to the wall no easy buckets defense with Tinsley ball hawking 2 steals a game. People were scared to play us, because any shot in the paint meant you were getting hammered. We turned Iverson into a 20 foot jump shooter, he was scared, and he was the toughest guy in the league.

    God that was a good team... I like pretty much nothing about us now, other than the jersey.
    I miss those days too. As I was reading the part where T-Bird said we need tough, physical players I immediately thought of those days. We had Ron and SJax and we were fierce. Now we have a bunch of softies who won't send a message, with the exception of Granger. This team is all about image now and you can't blame them after what happened. Basically, we traded toughness for image and PR. But I understand it had to be done for some of the fans asking for Ron's and SJax's head on a silver platter. It's just too bad we had what we're looking for, let it go, and now we're searching for it again.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I have to wonder if he's not a bad contract waiting to happen.
    That's a legit concern. I really like the guy as a defensive player, but I'm not saying go after him at all costs-I wouldn't overpay. Then the question becomes, what's he really worth (to us anyway) and what will he command?

    Whatever the case, I'd love to have him in a completely subjective/ideal scenario. As to the pressure of higher expectations, I think it depends on how a team defines his role. I wouldn't ask for much more than focusing on defense as a primary function.

    This discussion does lead into a broader one regarding what we think we have on this roster that will or won't be part of the long-term rebuild. If you think, at some point, more emphasis needs to be placed on defense and tougheness, it's obvious that we don't have the parts for that inside and it's questionable whether we have the parts on the perimeter. I am particularly underwhelmed by our PG defense so far.

    I know these types of players don't grow on trees, but how do you go about getting them specifically then?
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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Oddly enough, the guy who fits a lot of the description of what we need is Artest.

    Pity about that situation.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom White View Post
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    Oddly enough, the guy who fits a lot of the description of what we need is Artest.

    Pity about that situation.


    If Artest were mentally stable he'd be one of the top 5 players in the NBA. If.
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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    He's good, but not that good.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    I've been mulling over the issue of a defensive stopper, perimeter player, so I'll throw out a couple of names to be debated.

    Quinton Ross & Greg Buckner

    I'll be the 1st to admit I'm throwing out those names b/c of posters over the last year mentioning they are good "D" players. Could either one be the "D" stopper the Pacers need.

    One thing about both is their contracts. Ross is an expiring and Buckner's next 2 years are unguaranteed which in essence makes him an expiring.

    Any comments about either?

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    I'm sorry, I just don't buy that Trevor Ariza (who I actually like), Ross, or Buckner of all people will take this team to the next level (by which I mean lower echelon playoff team). And I don't think that we'll be drafting someone of this sort, at least with our first round pick, when we drafted a guy of the same ilk who can also do many other things well this past year.

    I still think that this team needs time. We're not even 30 games into our first rebuilding season and we're supposed to be trying to find "pieces?"

    I'm also a bit wary of pointing the finger at guys like Jack who aren't really part of our future and are meant to play a much smaller part than they really do. To me, it's like blaming Sasha Vujacic for losing the finals or the rat at the end of The Departed for the entire movie being worse than Reservoir Dogs. Yeah, maybe these factors come into play, but in the end, the Departed is just not as well acted, directed, or written, Kobe underperformed worse than Sasha, and Jack probably won't play any minutes at SG by 2010.

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    Default Re: Searching for Kyra Sedgwick

    I didn't see the game against New Orleans on Sunday night obviously, but it reads like more of the same.

    The new numbers I believe are we've now led in 13 of 20 of our losses sometime in the 4th quarter, and been within 1 possession I think 7 times out of those 13 losses in the last 2 minutes.

    We are also now 2-20 when we give up more than a 100 points. That isn't as alarming as the fact that we have actually given up 100 that many times.

    Once again, an athletic defensive stopper would have made a huge difference I would presume.

    To Justin: I think Buckner is too old to be very effective anymore, but I was beating the Quinton Ross drum all last winter and during the summer until Memphis picked him up late (and very cheaply I might add). Ross would be a nice cheap pickup, but further study and thought has now made me believe that Ariza is better for us, mainly due to his superior size over Ross and his youth.

    I don't think it is a given that Ariza re-signs with the Lakers by the way. They have alot of money tied up in wings there, including Luke Walton, and Sasha Vujevic, and they will need at least some money for an Andrew Bynum new contract.

    I think the Lakers SHOULD re-sign Ariza long term, I'm just not sure they will. From his perspective, I think it is very possible he may want to go somewhere where he will be a starter and a more integral part of the team, instead of playing 20 minutes a night like he does in LA currently. He might like a higher paying deal with added responsibility and a bigger role somewhere. To me and my way of thinking, he starts here alongside Danny Granger, irregardless of what happens with Mike Dunleavy.....but that is just me. Rush to me is an ideal backup for both Granger and Ariza long term, and it also lets us not have to play so much small ball with both Ford and Jack in the game, which like I said in the original posting I hate.

    I will say this though: Even though I am being critical of Jim O'Brien quite a bit, I know how much these repeated tough losses must be on him, or any other coach for that matter. I have been there on a much smaller level, and it eats at you even at the high school level. Losing is misery, losing repeatedly at the end of the game is beyond misery, it's torture....and I know what Kravitz meant this morning when he said the staff dies a little inside each time this happens to them.

    Tbird
    Last edited by thunderbird1245; 12-29-2008 at 06:44 PM.

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