Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 63

Thread: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

  1. #1
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,992

    Default Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Someone had to do it...

    #1: All away games should be televised. No exceptions.

    #2: We play too fast and put too much emphasis on offense. Slow it down and value each possession. Keep some gas in the tank for the 2nd half and 4th qtr

    #3: Refocus on defense. Defense first, then offense. At least badger the passing lanes and get more active. I thought offensive freedom had to be earned through a dedication to defense (wasn't that the JOB MO?)
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  2. #2
    Member MiaDragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Miami
    Posts
    1,655

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Kinda wish games like these would NOT be televised.

  3. #3
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    6,830

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Anybody listen to the radio broadcast? If so, what did you get as far as analysis/interpretation, either directly or reading between the lines, from Mark/Slick?

    EDIT: At this point I think it's fair to say that the recurring themes of blown leads and/or close losses do not correlate well with who is or is not playing due to illness or injury. Everyone has been involved enough to draw that conclusion. It's an entire TEAM problem.
    Last edited by D-BONE; 12-26-2008 at 10:59 PM.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  4. #4
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,142

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Bball - you can forget about defense. The style of play in the Golden State game is the goal. Of course, there is that small point that most teams are better than Golden State...

    "It was like a playground game almost," Pacers point guard Jarrett Jack said. "but you try to keep it organized. . . . We played a controlled, chaotic style."
    Pacers coach Jim O'Brien wasn't worried about trying to slow down the Warriors, the second highest scoring team in the league. His goal was just to make sure his team ended up on the "positive side of the ledger at the end of the game."
    To do that, the Pacers needed a season high in points, attempted a season-high 106 shots and got by without starters T.J. Ford (groin) and Troy Murphy (stomach virus).
    Five Pacers players attempted at least 10 shots and six players scored in double figures, led by Danny Granger's 41.
    "I absolutely love it," O'Brien said when asked if he liked playing at such a high pace. "I think that's the way the game of basketball is meant to be played, with fast breaks."

    Source: http://www.indystar.com/article/2008.../1088/SPORTS04

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    921

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Marquis' trade value is on the rise.

    That's about all the positive I've got.

  6. #6
    Member crunk-juice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Purdue
    Posts
    1,291
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    wow, what a pitiful, gutless team.

    we are more pathetic than last season.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    22
    Posts
    1,272

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Jack is to blame for this loss.. he lost the ball with 30 seconds left and we never got the ball back except for the last possession, if i'm correct.

  8. #8
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,992

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Bball - you can forget about defense. The style of play in the Golden State game is the goal. Of course, there is that small point that most teams are better than Golden State...

    "It was like a playground game almost," Pacers point guard Jarrett Jack said. "but you try to keep it organized. . . . We played a controlled, chaotic style."
    Pacers coach Jim O'Brien wasn't worried about trying to slow down the Warriors, the second highest scoring team in the league. His goal was just to make sure his team ended up on the "positive side of the ledger at the end of the game."
    To do that, the Pacers needed a season high in points, attempted a season-high 106 shots and got by without starters T.J. Ford (groin) and Troy Murphy (stomach virus).
    Five Pacers players attempted at least 10 shots and six players scored in double figures, led by Danny Granger's 41.
    "I absolutely love it," O'Brien said when asked if he liked playing at such a high pace. "I think that's the way the game of basketball is meant to be played, with fast breaks."

    Source: http://www.indystar.com/article/2008.../1088/SPORTS04
    I'm coming over to the side that O Brien is part of the problem, not part of the solution. The above is really driving it home.

    I was 'understanding' last year and to a point this year- We needed to get our players some confidence that they could shoot and hit shots and weren't just there to pass the ball to JO. But the emphasis on the 3-ball.... the pedal to the metal play (with a team that isn't exactly a pedal to the metal team), and then the lost leads. At some point these lost leads start to make you wonder if there's anything we can do to maintain the leads and why we lose them in the first place. It's not just or solely a lack of 'clutchness' IMHO.

    What it is is a team that doesn't value each possession enough. It's a team that is living too much off of just trying to outscore their opponent.

    IMHO an open 3 isn't always the best play. Take a step closer.... find an open player closer to the basket... consider the clock/score and your own shooting percentage.

    Save something in the tank for defense and for the 4th qtr.

    To me, this team has proven that they can't play this tempo and stomp on teams with consistency. Instead, they've shown they CANNOT maintain it and teams just need to hang tough and wait for us to wear down.

    ....Yet we keep doing it....
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  9. #9
    Member joew8302's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Bennettsville, SC
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,404
    Mood

    Sports Logo Sports Logo Sports Logo

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by D-BONE View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Anybody listen to the radio broadcast? If so, what did you get as far as analysis/interpretation, either directly or reading between the lines, from Mark/Slick?

    EDIT: At this point I think it's fair to say that the recurring themes of blown leads and/or close losses do not correlate well with who is or is not playing due to illness or injury. Everyone has been involved enough to draw that conclusion. It's an entire TEAM problem.

    Outstanding post, I agree 100% with it being a team issue. Sorry if I came off rude last topic, but I am just incredibly frusturated with this organization being run into the ground. We get worse and worse each year.

  10. #10
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,992

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    That all said.... we've proven we can be a competitive team. We just need to play a style of ball that takes advantage of our strengths.

    It looks like we need a different coach to do that.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  11. #11
    Member indytoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    2,503

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by crunk-juice View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    wow, what a pitiful, gutless team.

    we are more pathetic than last season.
    ..for truth.

  12. #12
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    6,830

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JGray View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Jack is to blame for this loss.. he lost the ball with 30 seconds left and we never got the ball back except for the last possession, if i'm correct.
    Of course-everyone's favorite scapegoat. Even though we wouldn't have been in that position at all had it not been for his steal and score in the two possessions immediately prior after we'd gone down by multiple possessions.

    Jack didn't have a good game, but I don't think the loss can be pinned on him individually. Outside Quis and Danny (and a solid job off the bench by Rasho), it doesn't appear anybody did much. And, most importantly, nobody out there is playing any D to speak of.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  13. #13
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,992

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Bball - you can forget about defense. The style of play in the Golden State game is the goal. Of course, there is that small point that most teams are better than Golden State...

    "It was like a playground game almost," Pacers point guard Jarrett Jack said. "but you try to keep it organized. . . . We played a controlled, chaotic style."
    Pacers coach Jim O'Brien wasn't worried about trying to slow down the Warriors, the second highest scoring team in the league. His goal was just to make sure his team ended up on the "positive side of the ledger at the end of the game."
    To do that, the Pacers needed a season high in points, attempted a season-high 106 shots and got by without starters T.J. Ford (groin) and Troy Murphy (stomach virus).
    Five Pacers players attempted at least 10 shots and six players scored in double figures, led by Danny Granger's 41.
    "I absolutely love it," O'Brien said when asked if he liked playing at such a high pace. "I think that's the way the game of basketball is meant to be played, with fast breaks."

    Source: http://www.indystar.com/article/2008.../1088/SPORTS04
    Am I dreaming when I remember this:
    I thought offensive freedom had to be earned through a dedication to defense (wasn't that the JOB MO?)

    Did someone say that about JOB and he not say it himself?
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  14. #14
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,142

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That all said.... we've proven we can be a competitive team. We just need to play a style of ball that takes advantage of our strengths.

    It looks like we need a different coach to do that.
    I think there are some small adjustments that could be made to make us a .500 team. I think JOb was starting to make those adjustments (e.g. putting McRoberts on the floor to at least slow down the onslaught), but he was short players tonight...so he is off the hook tonight regardless.

    But his core philosophy is in my post above, and at best it is troubling. He "absolutely loves...fast breaks". You know that Golden State game is how he wants this team to play...and that's not changing this year and maybe never. ...but for now he's a decent coach for a young team. If we had the talent to contend right now, however, I would want him pushed to the curb asap.

  15. #15
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Nirvana
    Posts
    6,830

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm coming over to the side that O Brien is part of the problem, not part of the solution. The above is really driving it home.

    I was 'understanding' last year and to a point this year- We needed to get our players some confidence that they could shoot and hit shots and weren't just there to pass the ball to JO. But the emphasis on the 3-ball.... the pedal to the metal play (with a team that isn't exactly a pedal to the metal team), and then the lost leads. At some point these lost leads start to make you wonder if there's anything we can do to maintain the leads and why we lose them in the first place. It's not just or solely a lack of 'clutchness' IMHO.

    What it is is a team that doesn't value each possession enough. It's a team that is living too much off of just trying to outscore their opponent.

    IMHO an open 3 isn't always the best play. Take a step closer.... find an open player closer to the basket... consider the clock/score and your own shooting percentage.

    Save something in the tank for defense and for the 4th qtr.

    To me, this team has proven that they can't play this tempo and stomp on teams with consistency. Instead, they've shown they CANNOT maintain it and teams just need to hang tough and wait for us to wear down.

    ....Yet we keep doing it....
    And, as you've alluded to before, our D was much more aggressive in the early part of the season, which could well indicate we are wearing down as the season progresses under the weight of what the offense demands physically, effectively mirroring the in-game trend.

    However, I do give JOB credit for keeping us playing competitive ball with what, IMO, is a significant talent gap most nights in favor of our opponents. Add the fact that he hasn't had much in the way of defensive players since he's been here and he may deserve some slack.

    Either way, I've said before and still maintain that JOB's offensive philosophy is more gimmick than substance and, ultimately, will likely be his ticket out of here whether it be sooner or later. I imagine it will be later.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

    -Emiliano Zapata

  16. #16
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,142

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Am I dreaming when I remember this:
    I thought offensive freedom had to be earned through a dedication to defense (wasn't that the JOB MO?)

    Did someone say that about JOB and he not say it himself?
    Well, if anyone can find a quote...I'm not sure if this is not a contradiction. He was giddy about that game...giving up 120pts to a dog team. Seriously, I am thankful we don't have more talent because it would be wasted.

    Edit: Take the Purdue-Davidson game. Purdue shuts down Stephen Curry with solid defense...and wins the game. I wonder how it would have turned out if Painter told Moore and Hummel he wasn't worried about slowing down the high-scoring Curry...
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-26-2008 at 11:41 PM.

  17. #17
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,992

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    D-Bone and BlueNGold,

    My fear is that our early season defensive intensity disappeared for precisely the reason that all the emphasis has been on the offense. There may be some marks you're supposed to hit on defense to keep OBrien happy, but I worry what has permeated the team is that O Brien really cares about the pedal to the metal offense. Just hit your marks on defense but make sure you keep it balls to the wall on offense. So as players settle into their roles they find it easier (and more accepted) if they take a little away from their defensive play to keep something in the tank for their offense.

    And I could easily see that taking a toll on the defense we saw earlier in the year... both with the team wearing down and with the true emphasis being on the offense.

    Defense is a constant... offense comes and goes. Value offensive possessions. That's my belief.
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    lottery.........baby

  19. #19
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,755

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    To this point this thread has been completely laughable. Grizzlies are as good as the Pacers so they should win at home and when you consider Granger went out with a concussion and our point guard missed the whole game - yeah Griz should win at home.

    A few of you act like you thought the team was going to win 48 games this season.


    Obviously, I didn't see tonight game, did listen to the fourth quarter - seemd as though he defense was the problem - but without seeing the game for myself, I really have no idea.


    I do want to address your point bball that all the emphasize (by the coaching staff) has been placed on offense. I don't believe that for a second, but if that is the case (depending to what degree) then the coach should be fired whoever it is. No I don't believe defense has been ignored, in fact I'm sure it is emphasized as much if not more than ever
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-27-2008 at 12:00 AM.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    33
    Posts
    28,142

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    To this point this thread has been completely laughable. Grizzlies are as good as the Pacers so they should win at home and when you consider Granger went out with a concussion and our point guard missed the whole game - yeah Griz should win at home.

    A few of you act like you thought the team was going to win 48 games this season.


    Obviously, I didn't see tonight game, did listen to the fourth quarter - seemd as though he defense was the problem - but without seeing the game for myself, I really have no idea
    i agreed this tem is lucky if they win more than 25games

  21. #21
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    19,992

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    I do want to address your point bball that all the emphasize (by the coaching staff) has been placed on offense. I don't believe that for a second, but if that is the case (depending to what degree) then the coach should be fired whoever it is. No I don't believe defense has been ignored, in fact I'm sure it is emphasized as much if not more than ever

    I said my fear was the offense has been over-emphasized at the expense of the defense, not that it's been ignored. ...To the point that when players look to pace themselves they do it at the expense of the defense because the over-emphasis on offense has allowed that message to permeate the team. ...And that OBrien's real focus is the offense (regardless of the lip service he might be giving the defense) and playing a high octane game and that has sunk in and become a part of the team's mentality.

    I'm waiting to see that proven wrong. The evidence seems to be stacking up in other direction.

    -Bball
    Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

    -John Wooden

  22. #22
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,142

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Defense is a constant... offense comes and goes. Value offensive possessions. That's my belief.
    That's my belief as well. This is not about tearing down JOb. It's not about saying this team should win 48 games. It's not even about this season. It's about a difference in philosophy with the coach.

    Anyway, I "absolutely love" the half court game, ball movement and defense. I do not believe JOb has that view. Beyond that, I'm fine with him sticking around for awhile. We could have done worse and probably not much better based on what the team had to offer. Hopefully we make some more good trades, improve the talent level and get back to the playoffs.

  23. #23
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,755

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    . We played a controlled, chaotic style."
    Pacers coach Jim O'Brien wasn't worried about trying to slow down the Warriors, the second highest scoring team in the league. His goal was just to make sure his team ended up on the "positive side of the ledger at the end of the game."
    To do that, the Pacers needed a season high in points, attempted a season-high 106 shots and got by without starters T.J. Ford (groin) and Troy Murphy (stomach virus).
    Five Pacers players attempted at least 10 shots and six players scored in double figures, led by Danny Granger's 41.
    "I absolutely love it," O'Brien said when asked if he liked playing at such a high pace. "I think that's the way the game of basketball is meant to be played, with fast breaks."

    Source: http://www.indystar.com/article/2008.../1088/SPORTS04



    If you read O'Brien's quotes, he says he wasn't worried about "slowing down" the Warriors. I interpret that to mean that the Pacers will continue to run - I do not interpret that to mean we are just going to let the Warriors score at will, or that defense isn't the highest priority.


    Just on a really general point - I love defense and a controlled style more than anyone - but it seemed like most other fans were sick and tired of Carlsle's approach (where did all those people go) I mean I can dig out thread after thread from two years ago where fans were sick of Rick calling all the plays, sick of his refusal to allow the team to run.
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-27-2008 at 12:20 AM.

  24. #24
    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    15,142

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If you read O'Brien's quotes, he says he wasn't worried about "slowing down" the Warriors. I interpret that to mean that the Pacers will continue to run - I do not interpret that to mean we are just going to let the Warriors score at will, or that defense isn't the highest priority
    Well, I agree that it did not mean he wanted to let the Warriors score at will...but I cannot agree that the statement is consistent with the view that "defense is the highest priority".

    Certainly if defense were the highest priority, he would be concerned about "slowing down" the other team's offense. Isn't that just about the definition of defense?

    Edit: Disclosure: I loved Rick's style, but we needed a PF who could hit better than 45% from the floor. Elton Brand would have been nice.

  25. #25
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    32,755

    Default Re: Pacers Vs Grizzlie Post Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Certainly if defense were the highest priority, he would be concerned about "slowing down" the other team's offense. Isn't that just about the definition of defense?
    No, the best way to slow down a fast break team is with a very controlled offense and when a coach talks about slowing down a pure run and gun team the coach is talking about doing so with a controlled offense - because that is the only way to do it. A coach cannot control how quickly the other team is going to shoot, but he can control how quickly his team is going to shoot


    I think that O'Brien quote is being taken out of context - no actually it is simply being misinterpreted - Peck did it after the game last week and made a big deal about it, I just let is slide then.

Similar Threads

  1. Post Game thread: Suns 113 Pacers 103
    By Unclebuck in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-05-2008, 10:27 PM
  2. Post game thread: Pacers beat sonics!
    By OnlyPacersLeft in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 03-13-2008, 10:51 AM
  3. Replies: 46
    Last Post: 03-02-2008, 06:08 AM
  4. 01/08/2008 Game Thread 36: Pacers at Jazz
    By BostonConnection in forum Indiana Pacers
    Replies: 120
    Last Post: 01-08-2008, 11:38 PM
  5. Replies: 95
    Last Post: 12-14-2007, 05:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •