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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

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We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

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  • #1

    Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Sorry, Indy.

    Tony Dungy is going to rest his starters, at least most of them, for the bulk of Sunday's meaningless regular-season finale against Tennessee.
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    Go ahead and complain, gnash your teeth, call your local talk shows and scream to the heavens -- no, not again!! -- but Dungy isn't going to change his mind on this matter.

    Nor should he.

    "The only thing that will make (fans) feel like it's the right way to go is if we win the Super Bowl,'' Dungy said Tuesday. "We know that going in. Whatever you do, if you win, it's the right thing and you were smart. And if you lose, you did the wrong thing and you weren't very smart. So we're going to do what we think is best. We thought (resting the starters) was best (in 2005 and 2007) and we still think it's best now, and hopefully we win and look smart at the end.''

    If the Colts trip over their first-round game at either Denver or San Diego -- and root for Denver, the far better matchup -- Dungy will be dogged by another round of second-guessing, just as he was in '05 and '07. But it says here that 2008 is different, very different, and if they lose, it won't have anything to do with ring rust or any such nonsense.

    In 2005, the Colts clinched home field advantage Dec. 11 of that season, then attempted to continue their perfect season Dec. 18 before losing to San Diego. They then rested their starters for games Dec. 24, Jan. 1 and had a bye week before a playoff loss, at home, to Pittsburgh on Jan. 15.

    That was 28 days between meaningful football games, and while Dungy still refuses to blame that loss on the team's down time, the ring rust clearly showed. Indy's offense, which had been so dominant throughout that season, didn't awaken until midway through the second half.

    By the time the Colts got their act together, it was too late. Nick Harper got tackled by Ben Roethlisberger on his fumble return in the final minute. And Mike Vanderjagt's kick landed in northern Zionsville.

    (That was also the year the Dungy family suffered the tragic loss of their son, an event that took an emotional toll on the entire franchise, a toll that cannot be readily understood or quantified.)

    In 2007, the Colts clinched the No. 2 seed Dec. 23, then rested their starters for the Dec. 30 game, enjoyed a bye week and then lost at home to San Diego on Jan. 13. That was 24 days between meaningful football games. That day, rust didn't seem to be a major issue. An early Marvin Harrison fumble was an issue. As was the lack of a pass rush, with Dwight Freeney gone from the lineup.

    "Did you think all the time off had any impact on those losses?'' Dungy was asked.

    He shook his head.

    "No, I really don't,'' he said. "It's always great to say, 'Well, momentum,' but what happens the previous week doesn't determine anything in the game to come.

    "I just don't buy into that theory. When I played (in Pittsburgh), that's when I got a chance to play and we rested up some of our good players and they carried us to Super Bowl wins. So there's no perfect way to do it, but having guys rested and ready to go usually helps.''

    Dungy may be stubborn, but he's got this on his side: This time, the circumstances are unquestionably different than they were in '05 and '07.

    Because this time it will only be 17 or 18 days between meaningful games.

    Because this time there will be no bye week.

    Because this time there will be no home-field advantage and the Colts likely will have to go on the road to reach the Super Bowl in Tampa.

    Because after that 3-4 start, the Colts have been on the one-or-done edge for all of those eight weeks.

    And because these two teams, the Colts and Titans, may very well be facing each other once again in two weeks time, this time down in Nashville.

    Clearly, recent Super Bowl winners have benefited from playing out the season and charging into the postseason with momentum. The Steelers did it in '05. The New York Giants, who smartly challenged the New England Patriots in an otherwise meaningless regular-season finale last year, were empowered by that performance.

    But think back to the Colts' Super Bowl season of '06. Where was their momentum? Yes, they played out the season, but they finished December with a 2-3 mark. They had almost no momentum heading into that playoff season, unless you count a ho-hum victory over the Cleo Lemon-led Dolphins a major confidence builder.

    Clearly, the players want to play. That's in their DNA. They're creatures of habit.

    Jeff Saturday was asked, "Do you want to rest Sunday?"

    "Naaaah,'' he said quickly. "I'm ready to play, stay sharp, go into the playoffs winning and beating a good team like Tennessee.''

    I followed up. "You think Tony will take your advice?''

    Saturday smiled.

    "No, I think coach Dungy is coach Dungy, and he'll decide whatever he wants to do,'' Saturday said.

    Coach Dungy has decided.

    Like it or not.


    http://www.indystar.com/article/2008.../1058/SPORTS03
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Oh well. I think we'll be alright.

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    • #3
      Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

      It's really a no-win situation. Play, and risk injury. Don't play, and risk rust. There's just really no right answer, especially with this team.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

        If we fall down big in the first half of our first playoff game I reserve the right to hold Dungy completely responsible.
        Report: 82% Of Wiseguys Think They're Real Funny

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

          Originally posted by Shade View Post
          It's really a no-win situation. Play, and risk injury. Don't play, and risk rust. There's just really no right answer, especially with this team.
          Season after season we've been shown what the right answer is. This is a timing and rhythm team. It's the way we're built. The decision about resting starters should already be made for us and that is to play out the schedule, but apparently it's not.

          If you want to have the option of resting players then you need a team of brute force. A team that can stop anybody and a team that doesn't rely on precision patterns and throws. We're not that.

          If you have an injured player, you rest him. You can probably rest some defensive players too... But the offense has to play plenty of minutes and maintain it's edge. And speaking of edge.... Dungy is NOT the right coach for a team needing to be energized and turned on at the drop of a switch. That's the other reason you play it out.

          You might pull your starters early.... but you get them plenty of reps when it's a team like the Colts.

          I'm ready for Dungy to move on. Stuff like this is part of the reason why.

          We keep 'doing what we do' even when it's proven it doesn't work. Isn't that the definition of 'insanity'?
          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

          ------

          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

          -John Wooden

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          • #6
            Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

            Four-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust teams can't afford to take a week off and lose their rhythm either.

            The NFL's first-round bye is the dumbest thing in all professional sports. It punishes the teams with the best regular season.
            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

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            • #7
              Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

              Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
              Four-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust teams can't afford to take a week off and lose their rhythm either.

              The NFL's first-round bye is the dumbest thing in all professional sports. It punishes the teams with the best regular season.
              This is why I'd wish they'd do away with it, and 10 teams from each conference would get the chance to play. It is a better scenario. A division winner at 8-8 can earn a spot over an 11-5 team, and that may very well be the case this week. While dropping the bye couldn't totally eliminate this, it would make it less frequent.

              I think the first-round bye and resting non-injured starters are both garbage. College teams rest for a month or more sometimes and they do quite well. The NFL just is different for some reason.

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

                I also want to add that we are one of the best teams coming out of the regular season bye week and that is often 14 days so I think this time we will be okay...

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

                  Of course, I don't know how much they'll play, but the starters will play some. Guys like Sanders and Addai, who have been injured, should sit and be 100% going into the playoffs. Manning will start to keep the streak going, and so will most of the regulars.

                  Pull 'em at halftime. That would make sense to me. We'll see what they do.

                  I think this year is much different than past years. Not having the bye is the big thing. I think we're better off without it. 17 or 18 days between "meaningful" games is much different than 24 or 28. And if the starters get some reps against TN, it's only half that long.

                  I didn't like resting the guys before, but I think it actually is the right call this time.
                  It's a new day for Pacers Basketball.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

                    Normally I'm against resting starters, but as mentioned, it's not as big a deal this time. We won't be rusty (or at least too rusty) come time to play in SD.
                    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

                      Originally posted by MrSparko View Post
                      If we fall down big in the first half of our first playoff game I reserve the right to hold Dungy completely responsible.
                      I'm flexing my fingers getting ready to type up a complete smackdown of Dungy and Co for sabotaging this team yet again when it comes to the playoffs.... by resting starters.

                      I wish they would play at least one half that's not too much and just enough.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

                        Originally posted by Basketball Fan View Post
                        I'm flexing my fingers getting ready to type up a complete smackdown of Dungy and Co for sabotaging this team yet again when it comes to the playoffs.... by resting starters.

                        I wish they would play at least one half that's not too much and just enough.
                        I don't see anything wrong with our starters getting rested. I know, I know, history doesn't like us very well, but I really think this is for the good of the team.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

                          Originally posted by Basketball Fan View Post
                          I'm flexing my fingers getting ready to type up a complete smackdown of Dungy and Co for sabotaging this team yet again when it comes to the playoffs.... by resting starters.

                          I wish they would play at least one half that's not too much and just enough.
                          Even if they lose badly it might have nothing to do with it. Last year everyone blamed the rust factor when they should have credited the Chargers for having a better game plan and far better execution.

                          Rhythm is as good as your last play. Yesterday, last week, two weeks ago, last month all mean nothing. The rest/no rest debate is overrated, especially at this time of the year when new players, new plays, new blocking schemes, etc. are not as likely to be developed and worked on in a meaningless game. While I think it is any a tiny issue, I would sit for at least 3 quarters or so anyone banged up enough who is at risk of further injury, and also franchise-type players.
                          The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

                            I would be perfectly fine if they played the guys who aren't banged up for the first half, then pulled them. But in reality, Manning and the boys will probably see one to three series.

                            I feel bad for my friend who bought tickets for us. He payed decent money and is going to be lucky to see Manning play more than one series, and keep in mind, I'm all for doing what is best for the team, and I'm fine if we'd just play for a half, but we've seen this before, and we know they aren't going to play a half, it just sucks for him to go into his first game at the Luke and see that.
                            Last edited by Lord Helmet; 12-27-2008, 03:34 AM.
                            Super Bowl XLI Champions
                            2000 Eastern Conference Champions




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                            • #15
                              Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

                              Originally posted by Lord Helmet View Post
                              I would be perfectly fine if they played the guys who aren't banged up for the first half, then pulled them. But in reality, Manning and the boys will probably see one to three series.

                              I feel bad for my friend who bought tickets for us. He payed decent money and is going to be lucky to see Manning play more than one series, and keep in mind, I'm all for doing what is best for the team, and I'm fine if we'd just play for a half, but we've seen this before, and we know they aren't going to play a half, it just sucks for him to go into his first game at the Luke and see that.
                              It won't suck nearly as much as seeing the Colts play flat in the first game of the playoffs and end up behind the 8-ball right off the bat.
                              Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                              ------

                              "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                              -John Wooden

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