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Thread: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

  1. #1
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Sorry, Indy.

    Tony Dungy is going to rest his starters, at least most of them, for the bulk of Sunday's meaningless regular-season finale against Tennessee.
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    Go ahead and complain, gnash your teeth, call your local talk shows and scream to the heavens -- no, not again!! -- but Dungy isn't going to change his mind on this matter.

    Nor should he.

    "The only thing that will make (fans) feel like it's the right way to go is if we win the Super Bowl,'' Dungy said Tuesday. "We know that going in. Whatever you do, if you win, it's the right thing and you were smart. And if you lose, you did the wrong thing and you weren't very smart. So we're going to do what we think is best. We thought (resting the starters) was best (in 2005 and 2007) and we still think it's best now, and hopefully we win and look smart at the end.''

    If the Colts trip over their first-round game at either Denver or San Diego -- and root for Denver, the far better matchup -- Dungy will be dogged by another round of second-guessing, just as he was in '05 and '07. But it says here that 2008 is different, very different, and if they lose, it won't have anything to do with ring rust or any such nonsense.

    In 2005, the Colts clinched home field advantage Dec. 11 of that season, then attempted to continue their perfect season Dec. 18 before losing to San Diego. They then rested their starters for games Dec. 24, Jan. 1 and had a bye week before a playoff loss, at home, to Pittsburgh on Jan. 15.

    That was 28 days between meaningful football games, and while Dungy still refuses to blame that loss on the team's down time, the ring rust clearly showed. Indy's offense, which had been so dominant throughout that season, didn't awaken until midway through the second half.

    By the time the Colts got their act together, it was too late. Nick Harper got tackled by Ben Roethlisberger on his fumble return in the final minute. And Mike Vanderjagt's kick landed in northern Zionsville.

    (That was also the year the Dungy family suffered the tragic loss of their son, an event that took an emotional toll on the entire franchise, a toll that cannot be readily understood or quantified.)

    In 2007, the Colts clinched the No. 2 seed Dec. 23, then rested their starters for the Dec. 30 game, enjoyed a bye week and then lost at home to San Diego on Jan. 13. That was 24 days between meaningful football games. That day, rust didn't seem to be a major issue. An early Marvin Harrison fumble was an issue. As was the lack of a pass rush, with Dwight Freeney gone from the lineup.

    "Did you think all the time off had any impact on those losses?'' Dungy was asked.

    He shook his head.

    "No, I really don't,'' he said. "It's always great to say, 'Well, momentum,' but what happens the previous week doesn't determine anything in the game to come.

    "I just don't buy into that theory. When I played (in Pittsburgh), that's when I got a chance to play and we rested up some of our good players and they carried us to Super Bowl wins. So there's no perfect way to do it, but having guys rested and ready to go usually helps.''

    Dungy may be stubborn, but he's got this on his side: This time, the circumstances are unquestionably different than they were in '05 and '07.

    Because this time it will only be 17 or 18 days between meaningful games.

    Because this time there will be no bye week.

    Because this time there will be no home-field advantage and the Colts likely will have to go on the road to reach the Super Bowl in Tampa.

    Because after that 3-4 start, the Colts have been on the one-or-done edge for all of those eight weeks.

    And because these two teams, the Colts and Titans, may very well be facing each other once again in two weeks time, this time down in Nashville.

    Clearly, recent Super Bowl winners have benefited from playing out the season and charging into the postseason with momentum. The Steelers did it in '05. The New York Giants, who smartly challenged the New England Patriots in an otherwise meaningless regular-season finale last year, were empowered by that performance.

    But think back to the Colts' Super Bowl season of '06. Where was their momentum? Yes, they played out the season, but they finished December with a 2-3 mark. They had almost no momentum heading into that playoff season, unless you count a ho-hum victory over the Cleo Lemon-led Dolphins a major confidence builder.

    Clearly, the players want to play. That's in their DNA. They're creatures of habit.

    Jeff Saturday was asked, "Do you want to rest Sunday?"

    "Naaaah,'' he said quickly. "I'm ready to play, stay sharp, go into the playoffs winning and beating a good team like Tennessee.''

    I followed up. "You think Tony will take your advice?''

    Saturday smiled.

    "No, I think coach Dungy is coach Dungy, and he'll decide whatever he wants to do,'' Saturday said.

    Coach Dungy has decided.

    Like it or not.


    http://www.indystar.com/article/2008.../1058/SPORTS03
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Denim Chicken duke dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Oh well. I think we'll be alright.

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    Inspiration Shade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    It's really a no-win situation. Play, and risk injury. Don't play, and risk rust. There's just really no right answer, especially with this team.
    "I'm not arguing; I'm explaining why I'm right."

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    The Dude Abides MrSparko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    If we fall down big in the first half of our first playoff game I reserve the right to hold Dungy completely responsible.
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  5. #5
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
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    It's really a no-win situation. Play, and risk injury. Don't play, and risk rust. There's just really no right answer, especially with this team.
    Season after season we've been shown what the right answer is. This is a timing and rhythm team. It's the way we're built. The decision about resting starters should already be made for us and that is to play out the schedule, but apparently it's not.

    If you want to have the option of resting players then you need a team of brute force. A team that can stop anybody and a team that doesn't rely on precision patterns and throws. We're not that.

    If you have an injured player, you rest him. You can probably rest some defensive players too... But the offense has to play plenty of minutes and maintain it's edge. And speaking of edge.... Dungy is NOT the right coach for a team needing to be energized and turned on at the drop of a switch. That's the other reason you play it out.

    You might pull your starters early.... but you get them plenty of reps when it's a team like the Colts.

    I'm ready for Dungy to move on. Stuff like this is part of the reason why.

    We keep 'doing what we do' even when it's proven it doesn't work. Isn't that the definition of 'insanity'?
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

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    Administrator/ The Real Jay ChicagoJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Four-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust teams can't afford to take a week off and lose their rhythm either.

    The NFL's first-round bye is the dumbest thing in all professional sports. It punishes the teams with the best regular season.
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    Four-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust teams can't afford to take a week off and lose their rhythm either.

    The NFL's first-round bye is the dumbest thing in all professional sports. It punishes the teams with the best regular season.
    This is why I'd wish they'd do away with it, and 10 teams from each conference would get the chance to play. It is a better scenario. A division winner at 8-8 can earn a spot over an 11-5 team, and that may very well be the case this week. While dropping the bye couldn't totally eliminate this, it would make it less frequent.

    I think the first-round bye and resting non-injured starters are both garbage. College teams rest for a month or more sometimes and they do quite well. The NFL just is different for some reason.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    I also want to add that we are one of the best teams coming out of the regular season bye week and that is often 14 days so I think this time we will be okay...

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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Of course, I don't know how much they'll play, but the starters will play some. Guys like Sanders and Addai, who have been injured, should sit and be 100% going into the playoffs. Manning will start to keep the streak going, and so will most of the regulars.

    Pull 'em at halftime. That would make sense to me. We'll see what they do.

    I think this year is much different than past years. Not having the bye is the big thing. I think we're better off without it. 17 or 18 days between "meaningful" games is much different than 24 or 28. And if the starters get some reps against TN, it's only half that long.

    I didn't like resting the guys before, but I think it actually is the right call this time.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Normally I'm against resting starters, but as mentioned, it's not as big a deal this time. We won't be rusty (or at least too rusty) come time to play in SD.
    Don't ask Marvin Harrison what he did during the bye week. "Batman never told where the Bat Cave is," he explained.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSparko View Post
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    If we fall down big in the first half of our first playoff game I reserve the right to hold Dungy completely responsible.
    I'm flexing my fingers getting ready to type up a complete smackdown of Dungy and Co for sabotaging this team yet again when it comes to the playoffs.... by resting starters.

    I wish they would play at least one half that's not too much and just enough.

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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I'm flexing my fingers getting ready to type up a complete smackdown of Dungy and Co for sabotaging this team yet again when it comes to the playoffs.... by resting starters.

    I wish they would play at least one half that's not too much and just enough.
    I don't see anything wrong with our starters getting rested. I know, I know, history doesn't like us very well, but I really think this is for the good of the team.

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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Basketball Fan View Post
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    I'm flexing my fingers getting ready to type up a complete smackdown of Dungy and Co for sabotaging this team yet again when it comes to the playoffs.... by resting starters.

    I wish they would play at least one half that's not too much and just enough.
    Even if they lose badly it might have nothing to do with it. Last year everyone blamed the rust factor when they should have credited the Chargers for having a better game plan and far better execution.

    Rhythm is as good as your last play. Yesterday, last week, two weeks ago, last month all mean nothing. The rest/no rest debate is overrated, especially at this time of the year when new players, new plays, new blocking schemes, etc. are not as likely to be developed and worked on in a meaningless game. While I think it is any a tiny issue, I would sit for at least 3 quarters or so anyone banged up enough who is at risk of further injury, and also franchise-type players.

  14. #14
    Fat, Drunk and Stupid Lord Helmet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    I would be perfectly fine if they played the guys who aren't banged up for the first half, then pulled them. But in reality, Manning and the boys will probably see one to three series.

    I feel bad for my friend who bought tickets for us. He payed decent money and is going to be lucky to see Manning play more than one series, and keep in mind, I'm all for doing what is best for the team, and I'm fine if we'd just play for a half, but we've seen this before, and we know they aren't going to play a half, it just sucks for him to go into his first game at the Luke and see that.
    Last edited by Lord Helmet; 12-27-2008 at 03:34 AM.
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  15. #15
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helmet View Post
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    I would be perfectly fine if they played the guys who aren't banged up for the first half, then pulled them. But in reality, Manning and the boys will probably see one to three series.

    I feel bad for my friend who bought tickets for us. He payed decent money and is going to be lucky to see Manning play more than one series, and keep in mind, I'm all for doing what is best for the team, and I'm fine if we'd just play for a half, but we've seen this before, and we know they aren't going to play a half, it just sucks for him to go into his first game at the Luke and see that.
    It won't suck nearly as much as seeing the Colts play flat in the first game of the playoffs and end up behind the 8-ball right off the bat.
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by pacertom View Post
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    Even if they lose badly it might have nothing to do with it. Last year everyone blamed the rust factor when they should have credited the Chargers for having a better game plan and far better execution.
    Rust had nothing to do with it last year. The Colts were doomed by a nonexistent pass rush though they should have gotten by SD. What doomed them in that game was a combination of a fumble by a WR at a key moment, a missed FG from EP range and said lack of a pass rush.

    I do think rust had an impact the year they lost to Pitt.

    The main reason I think the Colts should play (if healthy) this weekend is pretty simple - they haven't been playing all that well and there's a lot they need to work on, especially the run game - and if anyone thinks the run game can get going vs Tenn. with Jim Sorgi playing QB I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning on that.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  17. #17
    Jimmy did what Jimmy did Bball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    You don't think Marvin's fumble was not at least partly due to rust?

    We'd been hearing for weeks that if it was the playoffs that Marvin could've played. Then we finally get to the playoffs and Marvin plays... and fumbles.... and finishes the game on the sidelines.

    Some of us were saying at the time that if Marvin could play he should play (some) for exactly that reason (knock the rust off and test his body before things got really serious (playoffs)).

    -Bball
    O'Brien has been fired! Yay! What took so long?

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    Member Sollozzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    You don't think Marvin's fumble was not at least partly due to rust?

    We'd been hearing for weeks that if it was the playoffs that Marvin could've played. Then we finally get to the playoffs and Marvin plays... and fumbles.... and finishes the game on the sidelines.

    Some of us were saying at the time that if Marvin could play he should play (some) for exactly that reason (knock the rust off and test his body before things got really serious (playoffs)).

    -Bball

    Yep.

    Me, you, and a couple others said for several weeks that if Marvin could play then he should play some in the regular season so we could gauge where he was. He should have played the Tennessee game. That way, we could have seen the writing on the wall (which was that he wasn't anywhere near being ready to play) in a game that meant absolutely nothing. Unfortunately, we found it out in a playoff game during a crucial possession which helped lose the game for us.

    Of course, that example of rust is in no way comparable to the rust against the Steelers in 2006. In that scenario, you had an entire team that was rusty because it hadn't played a meaningful game in weeks. Last year, you had one player who was playing for the first time since the playoffs when he had no business being out on the field.

    Dungy and Polian blew smoke up everyone's a** all year long about Harrison, and it backfired big time.

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    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by Bball View Post
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    You don't think Marvin's fumble was not at least partly due to rust?

    We'd been hearing for weeks that if it was the playoffs that Marvin could've played. Then we finally get to the playoffs and Marvin plays... and fumbles.... and finishes the game on the sidelines.

    Some of us were saying at the time that if Marvin could play he should play (some) for exactly that reason (knock the rust off and test his body before things got really serious (playoffs)).

    -Bball
    I think it was because he shouldn't have played - whether that was rust, still being injured or because he just isn't that good of a receiver any more is up in the air IMO - he should have gotten some snaps that final regular season game just like Addai should get some tomorrow if he's going to play next week.

    Even if it was rust, I stand by my statement - it wasn't TEAM rust. They were about to go up 2 scores in the 1st quarter when Marvin fumbled. If they'd done that we'd have talked about them getting blown out in the 2nd rd.
    The poster formerly known as Rimfire

  20. #20

    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoJ View Post
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    The NFL's first-round bye is the dumbest thing in all professional sports. It punishes the teams with the best regular season.
    I wouldn't really want to see it go away, despite the fact that 2 extra teams making it would mean that the 11-5 Patriots would still be alive.

    Having a bye week can be a huge advantage, but it's up to your coaching staff and players to use the time right. I think under Belichick the Patriots were "almost" undefeated in all regular season and postseason games with an extra week of rest, the exception being last February 3. On that occasion the opponent had a week off too, though.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Kravitz- Colts to rest starters Sunday

    I look at the Giants last year and playing their guts out in the final game (even though it had no impact on seeding) and riding that momentum to the superbowl as fact that resting your starters is stupid.

    Hell, with the Colts running game so **** poor, they should've been out there practing the run game at game speed.

    Just pathetic that the colts are one and done for the 6th time in 10 years!

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