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Thread: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Great effort by the Pacers tonight. Jack was great, Ford considering he probably shouldn't have played was outstanding.


    let me address what will likely be the most discussed aspect of the game. "why didn't Hibbert play any late". He came out replaced by Rasho midway through the fourth after making two mistakes in the team defense, so Rasho came in. When Jeff fouled out, we needed someone who could guard Zack, and Hibbert or rRasho are both too slow and not athletic enough to get the job done. So McRoberts was brough in - and he defended Zack rather well. I agree with that decision to bring Josh in instead of Roy

    Tomorow night pacers will lose big.


    Rush made a huge mistakes in not getting right up on Thornton late in regulation - in that situation, you want the guy to drive the ball, and can't give up the three. Bad mistake by Rush.

    Towards the end of the first OT, Jack made a huge mistake himself, he went 1 on 2 or maybe even 1 on 3 and was blocked by Camby - I like when the players are aggressive, but the Pacers could have held the ball and taken the last shot, so unles Jack had an easy layup, he made a huge mistake, which he knew right away.

    Still though I am proud of the guys, feel bad for them losing this game. Pacers deserved to win this game - the Clips did not
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-19-2008 at 10:47 PM.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Well put, Unclebuck. I didn't like the final "play" drawn up at the end of regulation, but you can't peg this loss on coach tonight. We gave it a valiant effort and just made a couple stupid mistakes in the final minutes. Disappointing loss (which seems to happen often around here).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Tough loss. They came closer than I imagined when I saw Granger, Daniels, and Murphy out sick. There will be some tired legs tomorrow night. Philly just did beat Washington tonight, but the 3rd game in 4 nights, 3 players sick, and a double overtime game tonight = a loss tomorrow night.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    let me address what will likely be the most discussed aspect of the game. "why didn't Hibbert play any late". He came out replaced by Rasho midway through the fourt after making two mistakes in the team defense, so Rasho came in. When Jeff fouled out, we needed someone who could guard Zack, and Hibbert or rRasho are both too slow and not athletic enough to get the job done. So McRoberts was brough in - and he defended Zack rather well. I agree with that decision to bring Josh in instead of Roy
    I kept yelling that to the Clippers announcers. Boy were they dumb about a lot of things.

    Jack's inability to run a break can not be overstated. If the ball is in his hands with a break opportunity he has to give it up. Any time he starts dribbling full speed down the floor it reminds me of those toy cars that you wind back to get their momentum started and Jack is just wound up way too much. He flies right off the table and under the radiator and you never get to play with it again, unless you want to stick your hand under there but its dusty as hell and there are probably bugs. [/ramble]

    Brandon couldn't do anything right tonight. He looked like he was getting his stroke about midway through the fourth, but then Jack and Ford started really dominating the ball and he didn't get any good looks again.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    No excuse playing Rasho "I shoot 20 footers all day" Nesterovic over the on fire Roy Hibbert. No excuse.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Quote Originally Posted by JGray View Post
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    No excuse playing Rasho "I shoot 20 footers all day" Nesterovic over the on fire Roy Hibbert. No excuse.
    team defense - simple as that

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    The only thing I worry about, and maybe I shouldn't considering Roy's character, is that he might feel slighted by O'Brien (I mean, he did put up some gaudy numbers), and the last thing we need is a ****ty record and a ****ty locker room.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    I don't agree with blaming Rush. Thornton shoots like 25% from three. The guy's a slasher. If Gordon were in question the point would make more sense but he isn't. Thornton made a hell of a shot with pretty good pressure. An end of the game three would normally be taken by Baron. The Jack "dumbass" decision fars outweighs Rush's mistake (if you could even call it that).

    The game itself was horrid and severely unenjoyable. I'd be nice if Danny had played.

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    The Doctor's In The House TheDon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Saw the thread earlier that Daniels, Murphy, and Grager were out and pretty much chalked that up to a loss. The fact that we pushed it to 2 overtimes is pretty pitiful on the Clippers behalf. Hibbert 8 - 10 from the field 16 points 8 rebounds 5 blocks....23 minutes of play, I didn't get to see the game cause it wasn't televisde but 23 minutes of play? Please fire Jim O'Brian. Brandon Rush goes 5 - 22 and plays almost 3 times as much as Roy (he played 54). I know since I didn't actually see the game I can't say much, but looking at those two stat lines and then looking at the difference in minutes played is ridiculous to say the least and inexcusable. I'm glad that rush got to play but is there some unwritten law that Hibbert and Rush can't be on the floor at the same time? It's like O'Brian is begging for the firing.

    Anyone ever see that episode of the Simpsons where Homer becomes bart's football coach? Homer draws up plays by watching the old vibrating magnetized pieces. I can just see O'Brian...ok Jack I want you to move off to the left aimlessly Foster I want you shake all around then fall over on your side, Ford you stay around here and spin around in circles.
    Last edited by TheDon; 12-19-2008 at 10:33 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Man, I'm a big Roy Hibbert fan, and it sounds like this was the wrong game to miss.

    Stupid untelevised games.
    That'll do.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    can anybody bring the JOB thread back? we need to get another coach I can't understand why he keeps saying that he does not want to play to rookies together, play the guys that are doing a great job period. There should be another question,are they tanking the season and we don't know?

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    [QUOTE=Isaac;822175]

    He looked like he was getting his stroke about midway through the fourth/QUOTE]

    Rush:

    GS game 4-17

    LAC game 5-22

    9-39 = 23% He had better find his shot by tomorrows game!

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    His shot has never looked too bad to me. I just don't think he's confident enough to make them consistently yet. I'm not too worried about him coming around, though.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    can anybody bring the JOB thread back? we need to get another coach I can't understand why he keeps saying that he does not want to play to rookies together, play the guys that are doing a great job period. There should be another question,are they tanking the season and we don't know?
    I completely disagree with you - Josh was getting the job done defending Zack and Rasho was needed for the tean defense, becaue he was in help position to help on Zack - the Clips were going to Zack almost every play, so you had to defend him

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Rush is in a strange spot right now. Coming into the league, he looked more like a off-the-curl or kick-out-to three point threat but has looked (or at least hit on) much better off of screens to mid-range jumpers. I'm still confident that he'll start hitting a little better. I'd hate to compare him to some mediocre journeyman but his brother started out this way last year, though without the defensive merit. I'm still of the belief that the guy is one of two future starters on the current Pacers and that he should be getting big minutes.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    I really don't have a huge problem with him sitting Roy. Roy has not been terribly consistent. However, it is disappointing that Roy doesn't stay on the court when he's shooting 80% from the floor with 5 blocks, 16 points and only 2 fouls in 23 minutes. He was definitely playing better than Rasho tonight...but rookies sit for a reason. They are paid less and the coach looks foolish playing them over another arguably equal...but higher paid veteran. There is a ladder on the team just like in business...

    Edit: Just to clarify. These guys play 82 games a year or more. They see each other on a daily basis. There is a pecking order. There is a recognition that the owners are forking over millions of dollars for the vets. The owners probably don't want to see the bulk of their payroll play backup minutes. Yes, it is a business...and it's not always totally 100% about basketball. Sorry if any bubbles are bursting...
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-19-2008 at 10:57 PM.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I completely disagree with you - Josh was getting the job done defending Zack and Rasho was needed for the tean defense, becaue he was in help position to help on Zack - the Clips were going to Zack almost every play, so you had to defend him
    the thing is that having a big guy like Roy in the middle makes Zack job harder, you don't need Rasho to guard Marcus K, the other thing is when a guy is playing that well you don't take him out of the game period. plus you need to develop the rookies, we already know that some of this old guys are not coming back next season, so why play them when your rookie is doing a better job than the veteran?

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Quote Originally Posted by vnzla81 View Post
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    the thing is that having a big guy like Roy in the middle makes Zack job harder, you don't need Rasho to guard Marcus K, the other thing is when a guy is playing that well you don't take him out of the game period. plus you need to develop the rookies, we already know that some of this old guys are not coming back next season, so why play them when your rookie is doing a better job than the veteran?
    Roy was taken out after two mental mistakes in the team defense midway through the fourth quarter. And no you can't just disregard Camby becaue he woud have then gottlen layups and easy offensive rebounds - it takes a very experienced player to help on Zack and yet not completely leave Camby.

    Look, I have no problem with those that disagree with JOB in this decision, but to suggest that he needs to be fired -and to use this as an example why - is something I disagree with vehemently and I think it is a huge over-reaction
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-19-2008 at 11:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Rush practically hasn't had a shooting stroke all year. He got plenty of shots and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. He also missed several FTs. I still like his aggressiveness and his upside.

    I think Rush needs to use the backboard on all those drives where he winds up with short shots (say 4-7 feet from an angle) off penetration, but even at times underneath. When you are moving it's difficult to have the touch to swish those types of shots.

    I can basically live with everything Jack did except the attempt to drive it on the break when we could have had the last shot. That said, we'd have been SOL without him.

    Rasho also make huge contributions with the mid-range J. I suspect he was in for that purpose, as well. Obviously, he couldn't make one in the fourth.

    Ford, like Jack, was generally good but there were mistakes. The last possession dribbling it off his leg being one.

    It's frustrating with the TOs and poor decisions, but both Jack and Rush really kept us in this game with a lot of good play, too. Plus, I think some see them as dominating the ball when JOB encourages and even instructs them to do it at times. Even more so in a game like this without most of our offensive options.

    But, what else is he going to do? Who do you want trying to initiate offense with no Granger or Daniels?

    I say great effort by our guys under the circumstances. Also, no complaints here about coaching.

    Tomorrow night could be tough. Who, if anyone, might be back? They don't have Brand though so that is a small silver lining.
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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Roy was taken out after two mental mistakes in the team defense midway through the fourth quarter. And no you can't just disregard Camby becaue he woud have then gottlen layups and easy offensive rebounds - it takes a very experienced player to help on Zack and yet not completely leave Camby.

    Look, I have no problem with those that disagree with JOB in this decision, but to suggest that he needs to be fired -and to use this as an example why - is something I disagree with vehemently and I think it is a huge over-reaction
    Sorry for not explaining my self to well, I am just saying that this is another reason to fire JOB, he always makes bad decisions at the end of games, by the way I think JMV today was talking about you, he said to say hi to unclebuck

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    80% from the field or not, if he was screwing up the team defense he needed to be yanked or we would have been in far worse shape.

    Im so sick of this reactionary fire the coach crap, Hibbert played a great game, but he isn't ready for crunchtime where mental mistakes cost you twice as much. Hell our vets made mental mistakes out there. Rasho is steady and experienced and while not having hibberts potential talent, you know he isn't going to cause any major blunders out there.
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    Thumbs down Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    On another note, man I look at Brandon Rush and think he is "hitting shots" away from being an excellent player. We all know he can shoot, whenever he gets out of this funk he is going to look great out there.
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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    I thought it was a good game overall especially since we were missing so many of our pieces. The rooks played like they were rooks and we really missed Danny's aggressiveness and leadership. This is a game that may pay dividends later on in the season where the rooks can use the lessons they learned tonight and come through consistently.

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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    80% from the field or not, if he was screwing up the team defense he needed to be yanked or we would have been in far worse shape.

    Im so sick of this reactionary fire the coach crap, Hibbert played a great game, but he isn't ready for crunchtime where mental mistakes cost you twice as much. Hell our vets made mental mistakes out there. Rasho is steady and experienced and while not having hibberts potential talent, you know he isn't going to cause any major blunders out there.
    Rasho shoots way too many long jumpers. Late in the game, on the play by play, I constantly saw "R. Nesterovic misses 17-20 foot jumper". That was like, three occasions. He can make those occasionally, but he needs to stop shooting them so much especially late.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tough loss, Postgame thread 2-ot Clips

    I'm not saying JOb made a big mistake by benching Roy, but Hibbert's +/- was -1 and Rasho's was -7....so I would not overplay some of the mistakes he may have made. That ignores some of the good things he was doing. The fact is, he probably outplayed Rasho in the minutes he had tonight.

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