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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

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  • #16
    Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

    Less talented teams than the Pacers (8):

    New Jersey
    Washington (-Arenas)
    Charlotte
    Memphis
    OKC
    Minnesota
    Golden State
    Sacramento

    Teams on par with the Pacers (6):

    Toronto
    New York
    Chicago
    Milwaukee
    Miami
    LA Clippers

    I don't feel like explaining every choice. That's just a first blush impression of who we should be better than and who we should be competitive with. This places us firmly in the bottom half of the league talent wise, even if you think we're better than all of my 'on par' teams.

    The interesting question to me is, if and when Dunleavy comes back, does he make us demonstrably more talented than the teams on my second list? I like Dun a lot, but I don't quite know how to answer that question.

    What's more, I firmly believe that once Dun gets back, this year's team is more talented than last year's. The fact that we made a playoff push with Diener and Murray as our PG's is all I need to know that O'Brien is a good coach.
    "A man with no belly has no appetite for life."

    - Salman Rushdie

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

      Originally posted by TheDoddage View Post
      We were able to sign-and-trade for Al with the exception we got after trading Peja.
      And a #11 pick.
      This space for rent.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

        Originally posted by Quis View Post
        If you just average our talent out, I think we do pretty well as we have quite a few really solid players. Our problem is that we only have one very good-to-great starter (Granger). That wont come close to getting the job done.
        I kept writing and re-writing responses, but Quis basically summed it up, to me. I think we ARE in the bottom five talent-wise. We have almost an entire roster of mediocre, but amenable to being coached, players. NO glaring weaknesses. No overt strengths. (Danny and TJ excluded.) We're kinf of a blank slate.

        I think of teams less talented than us like the Kings (Too raw, with wierd age disparities from starters to bench guys), OKLA (Self explanatory), Miami (Are they a little like us? Just sub Wade and Marion for TJ and Granger as impact players.)..Bobcats...Minnesota..Washington and I see a collection of players.

        At least with us, I see the pieces in place. We just need to plop that one superstar in training in the midst. We need to pluck another Jermaine off someone's bench. Or draft another Reggie Or Kellogg. I thin our table is set. We have players with pretty clearly defined abilities. We just need a stud (other than Danny) to build them around.

        I'm of the same mindset as Bill S. Insert a powerful PF presence and I think this team really takes off. I haven't sweated this season becasue I see the pieces in place. I think a lot is contingent on Roy's development and us getting a bruiser of some type. Not that he's a bruiser, but I wonder how an Amir Johnson type would perk this squad up.

        I personally hpe we don't win too much. That would set the table for TPTB to not have as strong a sense of urgency on making further deals.

        Let's create a well rounded squad of coachable players, showcase everone...and wait to triger that truly a deal for that truly complimentary player who'll help bump us to the next level.
        Hey! What're you kicking me for? You want me to ask? All right, I'll ask! Ma'am, where do the high school girls hang out in this town?

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        • #19
          Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

          Originally posted by Skaut_Ech View Post
          Let's create a well rounded squad of coachable players, showcase everone...and wait to triger that truly a deal for that truly complimentary player who'll help bump us to the next level.
          The Boston strategy.
          This space for rent.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

            No way are we that high if we have to think of Rush and Hibbert as rookies making a difficult transition. Bottom-five is too generous.
            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
            And life itself, rushing over me
            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

              Pacers have a better record than 7 other teams in the league, so they are not bottom
              five. The Pacer's record is who they are and that is not very good and a lottery team.
              With Dunleavy healthy they would be in the playoffs. But he is not thus you see the results.
              {o,o}
              |)__)
              -"-"-

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                Originally posted by owl View Post
                Pacers have a better record than 7 other teams in the league, so they are not bottom
                five. The Pacer's record is who they are and that is not very good and a lottery team.
                With Dunleavy healthy they would be in the playoffs. But he is not thus you see the results.
                Considering the Pacers have had one of the most difficult schedules in the league...they are playing at a level that is closer to average than the bottom of the league.

                Maybe they do have a low talent level and maybe they do overachieve a little, but I think that view comes more from watching a bunch of sour puss players over the last 4 years. We are simply not used to watching all the players give 100% effort. They are probably lower on the talent scale than all but 7 or 8 teams would be my guess.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                  I just don't see us in the bottom five. To base it off of talent we have to look at our injured guys as well and envision them as healthy. Our PG's are not bottom five talent, when Dun is there our 2 guard spot is not lower talented, put Danny at the three and there's no question, put Murph in the four and he's not a bottom feeder but he is not an all-star either. Add Rasho at the 5 spot and he's in the mid pack of centers in the league. Our bench is a bit of a different story. We are a bit thin in the bench, but as our rooks get more experienced the bench talent level will rise by the end of the season.

                  Add to the fact that these guys are new to each other for the most part and they just need time to gel. I have already chalked up this year as the year to get them to gel and come together as a team. So that is not really a talent issue, but more a team issue.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                    Originally posted by MillerTime View Post
                    I think Pacers are more talented than the Raps.

                    Ford > Calderon
                    the entire Raptors organization disagrees
                    STARBURY

                    08 and Beyond

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                      Originally posted by jeffg-body View Post
                      Our PG's are not bottom five talent,
                      Bottom ten then? Somewhere around there - certainly not in the top 15.

                      when Dun is there our 2 guard spot is not lower talented,
                      Since when do we like Dunn at SG? I like Dunleavy as a player, but I cringe when he's playing SG.

                      put Danny at the three and there's no question,
                      He's top-15, and maybe top-10, and he's improving. Have two top-15 SFs is not the greatest of rebuilding strategies, unless one of these guys will be happy as the sixth man next year when Rush is ready to be a full-time starter (hopefully Dunleavy welcomes that role.)

                      put Murph in the four and he's not a bottom feeder but he is not an all-star either.
                      He might be top-twenty. But probably not. He might be between 20 and 25, but only under Jim O'Brien. I don't think there are many coaches in the NBA that would start Murphy.

                      Add Rasho at the 5 spot and he's in the mid pack of centers in the league.
                      Now, I like the idea of having Rasho around to teach Roy. Rasho has fundamentals and a head for the game, and he plays the right way. But he was barely a top-15 center in his prime.
                      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                      And life itself, rushing over me
                      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                        Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                        Bottom ten then? Somewhere around there - certainly not in the top 15.

                        Certainly you must be joking. Name 15 point guard rotations (starter and backup) that you would rather have than TJ and Jack.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                          Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                          Since when do we like Dunn at SG? I like Dunleavy as a player, but I cringe when he's playing SG.
                          Explain this please. What do you hate about Dun playing 2?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                            Originally posted by Peskoe97 View Post
                            Certainly you must be joking. Name 15 point guard rotations (starter and backup) that you would rather have than TJ and Jack.
                            You're debating with someone who admittedly doesn't watch TJ play. Save your efforts.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                              Originally posted by QuickRelease View Post
                              Explain this please. What do you hate about Dun playing 2?
                              Too tall. Too slow. Especially on the defensive end. He's a natural SF, so it works okay on the wing offensively but I don't like the Granger/ Dunleavy tandem at the other end of the court. My take is that one of the two of them will have a big game, but its much less common for both of them to have a big game at the same time because they are too similar.
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Pacers talent level is in the bottom 5 right now

                                Originally posted by Peskoe97 View Post
                                Certainly you must be joking. Name 15 point guard rotations (starter and backup) that you would rather have than TJ and Jack.
                                Originally posted by imawhat View Post
                                You're debating with someone who admittedly doesn't watch TJ play. Save your efforts.
                                TJ Ford's game is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. I just can't stand to watch him use his quickness to drive into trouble where he's too small to find either an open man or a decent shot. The one semi-advantage he's got (quickness in the open court ) turns into his #1 weakness (quickness in the half court). If I were defending him, I'd crowd the ball and prompt him to drive into the heart of the defense every time, because he rarely makes good plays happen in that situation.

                                If he ever learns to stay out of the paint against a regular half-court defense, that would be better. Of course, I don't know what he'd do... just pass the ball along the perimeter I guess and any number of NBA PGs could do that.

                                I can name 40 or 50 PGs I'd rather have starting. Including Jack and Tinsley. (There, I said it.)

                                I'm okay with Jack as the backup.
                                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                                And life itself, rushing over me
                                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                                Comment

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