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Thread: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Nice win tonight. Wizards are a really bad team, even though Butler and Jamison are good.

    I want to make a few comments on Rush. I thought he played very well tonight - maybe just maybe Jim O'Brien knew what he was doing when he sat Rush for a few games. I mean how many of you were screaming bloody murder about how Jim was ruining the guy, hurting his confidence - some of you acted like Rush wasn't going to play until Thanksgiving '09. Sometimes it is good for a rookie especially, to sit and learn from the bench - it has happened before
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-15-2008 at 09:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    I just wanted to add that Marquis played really, really well. He looks like a whole new player this year.

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    I understand the idea of a good player sitting and learning from the bench...being properly groomed. However, that's not the story that originally came out.

    We were told he was sat down based on statistics...and to give Graham a shot. Under the circumstances where Graham had been in the league 4 years, Rush had been in 15 games on limited minutes against the best teams in the NBA....well, that story didn't work for me. I didn't believe the story and don't now. It's still not entirely clear why he was benched IMO.

    Edit: Not saying JOb doesn't know what he's doing. I just didn't think stats were a legit way to make that decision....and I don't really believe it ever was the basis of the decision.
    Last edited by BlueNGold; 12-15-2008 at 09:50 PM.

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Living over here and games being on while I'm at work, I don't get to see many but I saw all of this one (except the first 6 minutes of the 3rd - so my viewing plus minus was huge).

    I was super impressed with Brandon Rush. There was that disasterous play in the 4th where he attempted about 4 shots and either missed or had them blocked, but he had the courage about a minute later to take and make another long 2. I thought that was a very good sign. Didn't go into his shell at all.

    Daniels was fantastic. Yeah he can't shoot the 3 but look what he can do. Ford was really good too. Loved that runner to beat the shot clock in the 4th.

    The two downsides were the crap opposition and Hibbert. He looked very awkward out there. I hope he continues to get a decent opportunity though.

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    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    How long do you think we'll go with Hibby as the starting center?

    I'm all for him getting force-fed minutes... he needs to see the floor. But if he doesn't have an amazing game pretty soon, it wouldn't surprise me to see him fall out of the rotation entirely.
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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    I understand the idea of a good player sitting and learning from the bench...being properly groomed. However, that's not the story that originally came out.

    We were told he was sat down based on statistics...and to give Graham a shot. Under the circumstances where Graham had been in the league 4 years, Rush had been in 15 games on limited minutes against the best teams in the NBA....well, that story didn't work for me. I didn't believe the story and don't now. It's still not entirely clear why he was benched IMO.

    Edit: Not saying JOb doesn't know what he's doing. I just didn't think stats were a legit way to make that decision....and I don't really believe it ever was the basis of the decision.
    Well, he said two things that were not mutually exclusive"

    "When you're studying all the stats we do and a guy is clearly not performing at the highest level, then it would be very, very difficult for me to look Stephen Graham in the eye and not give him his chance," O'Brien said.
    and

    "They're playing against terrific players, terrific teams, the most aggressive teams in the league," O'Brien said. "Sometimes if they're not doing very well, as was the case for Roy (Hibbert) a couple of weeks ago, it's better to have them sit and watch a little bit. I have a great deal of confidence that Brandon is going to be a terrific player and he's going to be a terrific player this year."
    My take all along was that Obie didn't think Rush was playing as well as he could/should, his numbers were suffering (which they were), so he'd both give Stephen a look and let Rush get a little perspective.

    I firmly believe that Obie is expecting Rush to be an important player for this team.

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    I want to make a few comments on Rush. I thought he played very well tonight - maybe just maybe Jim O'Brien knew what he was doing when he sat Rush for a few games. I mean how many of you were screaming bloody murder about how Jim was ruining the guy, hurting his confidence - some of you acted like Rush wasn't going to play until Thanksgiving '09. Sometimes it is good for a rookie especially, to sit and learn from the bench - it has happened before
    I'm a fan of Rush. That said, I didn't get home 'til the end of the 3rd, and pretty much the first thing I saw was Rush miss a 3... rebound, kick-out to Rush... missed another 3... and then he gets the ball again and gets blocked TWICE under the rim --- all in the same possession. It was quite embarrassing, and I'm sure he was. One possession, and he had 4 missed shots. That's hard to pull off.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthem View Post
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    How long do you think we'll go with Hibby as the starting center?

    I'm all for him getting force-fed minutes... he needs to see the floor. But if he doesn't have an amazing game pretty soon, it wouldn't surprise me to see him fall out of the rotation entirely.
    I don't know if amazing is necessary. He does, however, have to show some progress.

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Need to roll with this and get two in a row at home. Definitely a good opportunity for a little streak with GS and the Clips coming to town.

    Jack had a nice game, too. Really all who saw meaningful minutes did sans RH.
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I'm a fan of Rush. That said, I didn't get home 'til the end of the 3rd, and pretty much the first thing I saw was Rush miss a 3... rebound, kick-out to Rush... missed another 3... and then he gets the ball again and gets blocked TWICE under the rim --- all in the same possession. It was quite embarrassing, and I'm sure he was. One possession, and he had 4 missed shots. That's hard to pull off.
    Yeah that sequence was ugly, but he more than made up for it before and after. And at least he was tyring to be agressive there.
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Is it just me, or is Danny suddenly a decent to good passer?

    I'm sure some expert will swoop in with something negative or saracastic to say, but hey, Danny wasn't really passing AT ALL before.

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Minneapolis View Post
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    I'm a fan of Rush. That said, I didn't get home 'til the end of the 3rd, and pretty much the first thing I saw was Rush miss a 3... rebound, kick-out to Rush... missed another 3... and then he gets the ball again and gets blocked TWICE under the rim --- all in the same possession. It was quite embarrassing, and I'm sure he was. One possession, and he had 4 missed shots. That's hard to pull off.
    That's true, but on the defensive possession immediately following, he played very good and active defense, challenging Jamison on a three. I really liked that he didn't stop playing.

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Is it just me, or is Danny suddenly a decent to good passer?

    I'm sure some expert will swoop in with something negative or saracastic to say, but hey, Danny wasn't really passing AT ALL before.
    Definitely. He's been working on that. His 3 hasn't been as good of late but his passing is vastly improved.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Is it just me, or is Danny suddenly a decent to good passer?

    I'm sure some expert will swoop in with something negative or saracastic to say, but hey, Danny wasn't really passing AT ALL before.
    As I think Clark said during the telecast - Teams are focusing their defense on Danny, so that will open up the passing lanes - yes his passing tonight was good. But his shot selection was not good overall - there is no reason for him to evr take a well guarded three point shot (unless the shot clock is down)

    Back to Rush, I know those quotes from Indystar.com, but on JOB radio show he said Rush was getting lost on the team defense

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Is it just me, or is Danny suddenly a decent to good passer?

    I'm sure some expert will swoop in with something negative or saracastic to say, but hey, Danny wasn't really passing AT ALL before.
    Tonight was the 7th time in the last 9 games that he's had 5 or more assists. Definitely noteworthy.

    He still needs to get his turnovers under control, though, as he's made 23 over the same stretch (against 34 assists).

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Just for fun:

    Danny vs. Caron tonight:

    Minutes: Danny 37, Caron 39
    Points: 27, 26
    Rebounds: 9, 8
    Assists: 5, 5
    Steals: 5, 1
    Blocks: 0, 1
    Turnovers: 1, 4
    Fouls: 3, 4
    2FG: 8-21, 9-18
    3FG: 1-7, 2-5
    FT: 10-10, 6-8

    Danny 6, Caron 3

    Danny > Caron

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    The Last Great Pacer BlueNGold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    Well, he said two things that were not mutually exclusive
    By the time he got to part II, I was done listening. Let's just say I have a sensitive BS-meter and it went off with part I....and it has gone off other times I've heard him interviewed....including last year when the subject of Jamaal Tinsley came up. He's a good guy and a good coach, but he tends to package things for consumption and I simply don't care for that style.

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    By the time he got to part II, I was done listening. Let's just say I have a sensitive BS-meter and it went off with part I....and it has gone off other times I've heard him interviewed....including last year when the subject of Jamaal Tinsley came up. He's a good guy and a good coach, but he tends to package things for consumption and I simply don't care for that style.
    I could not disagree more with your assessment of Obie...except for the good guy and good coach part.

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    He still needs to get his turnovers under control, though, as he's made 23 over the same stretch (against 34 assists).
    He's 5th in the League per game.
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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    He's 5th in the League per game.
    Yeah, I'm aware. That 9 game stretch, averaging 2.6 per game, is actually helping to reduce his average.

    Also, I haven't charted this, but it seems to me that his TO's have been mostly of the ballhandling & offensive foul variety, not so much his passing.

    I do think his passing is getting better, but, as I said earlier, he needs to get his turnovers under control.

    It's an evolution.

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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I don't know if amazing is necessary. He does, however, have to show some progress.
    Well, if we're working the averages, one amazing game would even out the multiple stinkers he's had. I don't expect him to be consistently amazing, but one really good game would prove he belongs out there and give him some confidence.

    If you were an NBA front office and had the chance to draft either McGee or Hibbert, who would you pick?
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Went to the game tonight. Digital camera is in Illinois, so no pics. Was in the 2nd level anyway...

    First impressions: Missed half of the first quarter, but Danny is tall and long and really good. Knew and believed this before, but it's quite evident. Still has somethings to learn...

    Too many jumpshots in the 1st quarter. Jack comes in and starts driving and maybe this gets the Pacers in a contagious mood. Good 2nd quarter of driving to the basket and getting easy baskets and/or drawing fouls.

    Saw Rush, Marquis, and Danny on Caron throughout the game. Butler is good. But the Pacers are playing a team without their starting PG (Arenas) and center (Haywoode) and for some reason Etan Thomas is buried in the bench. Sat next to a nice guy who was a knowledgeable fan and offered Thomas in a trade for Tinsley. They'd throw in Stevenson, since the man was definitely not a fan of Stevenson and was calling for him to get benched. I told him maybe he'd foul out....

    Highlight of the game was Stephen Graham and Josh McRoberts making the kissing camera.

    Kidding. Actually, it was the arena was chanting defense and showing some life when the Wiz tied it up near the end of the 3rd. Danny pump-fakes and drives the lane for a thunderous dunk....

    Crickets chirping...

    Fan was also saying Dixon needed benching. Ford was getting by everybody at will it seemed but really had problems finishing.

    Bunch of fouls on our bigs that I didn't agree with. (But not all of them were called by Joey "Stern is on line 1" Crawford.)

    But at least the Pacers drove and got rewarded for it. The Wiz settled for a lot of jumpshots... which is how the Pacers let the Wiz back in the game in the 3rd.

    Daniels is very creative with the ball and gets open looks through changes in rhythm. Rush looked good at times. That series of the 2 missed 3s followed by the 2 blocked shots was a "welcome to the league, rook" moment, but you could see him joking with either Daniels or Danny a series later with a big smile on his face.

    Liked Murphy in the high post. Rasho didn't impress me that much. Foster fights hard underneath. Hibbert had no aggression until 1:18 left in the game. He's also slow. Man needs to use his size for deep position.

    Wiz were doubling and trapping off the high pick/post on the wing player a lot and none of the bigs were rolling hard to the basket. This would draw the defense and open up the outside shooters. Guy with the ball needs recognize the double quicker and quickly move to split the defenders.

    Too many quick shots with 6 minutes left in the game and a 12 point lead. Milk the clock boys. (Coach!)

    Wiz might do good to play Critter and Young some more. At least give their fans something to look forward to along with McGee.

    MVP to Jarrett Jack. Team played well with him at the PG on both ends of the court and SG at the end of the game. He drives well and even hit a Boom, Baby!

  23. #23

    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    i hate the fact that croshere was cut to have 3 rookies that play ****...

    EDIT: 2 rookies + graham (my bad)
    Last edited by Miller4ever; 12-15-2008 at 10:44 PM.

  24. #24
    White and Nerdy Anthem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicks View Post
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    Is it just me, or is Danny suddenly a decent to good passer?
    Yeah, I've noticed that too. And a couple of the passes have been honest set-up-your-man-with-good-vision passes, not just drive and kick.
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    Default Re: Pacers break their losing streak - Postgame thread Pacers vs Wizards

    Did anybody catch the play where the Pacers just chucked the ball into the back court and had TJ sprint for versus two Wizards players and TJ beat them clean and got clear possession. I thought that was impressive.

    Also, I think the TJ-Jack-Quis-Danny-Jeff lineup is our best lineup right now. Unless the other team is playing some guy too big for Danny at the four, that's the lineup I want in at the end of games.

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