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Thread: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

  1. #1
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Sorry but watching that game made me throw up in my mouth a little.

    I wanted to come on here and complain about how Nelson makes me nauseated and how that watching his version of basketball (ie. smallball) made me ill.

    Then I saw this.

    WARRIORS COACH DON NELSON:
    "We didnít expect to play with such a small lineup. But with Murphy (Troy) out, they went small and then we had to. Their small team played better than ours. We expected them to run the floor and it was a pretty good battle.Ē

    In other words Nelson was playing down to match us. Shoot me now.

    Look I don't want to be Debbie Downer here, that's Grace's job, but the fact that we had to eek out a win tonight just does not sit well with me at all. No offense to the G.S. fans out there but this is one of the worst teams I have ever seen. Vancouver and the Clippers have had some real stinkfest teams over the years but this G.S. team that was on the floor tonight was wretched. However not to be outdone in wretchedness it was all we could do to pull away with a win.

    It took a superheroic effort from Danny in the 4 to make us pull this out. It took Graham hitting shots like the other 23 in the 4th for us to win.

    I understand a win is a win is a win and I am gratefull for any win at this point but.....

    I guess it could also have a lot to do with the fact that the entire game just made me ill and it was very very very hard to watch for me. I like at least the pretense of defense and I much prefer the big man game to what this was.

    Also I provide this quote for your enjoyment.

    PACERS COACH JIM O'BRIEN:

    "Overall it was a good team effort. I love run and shoot games. I think thatís the way the game is meant to be played."

    Did I mention that I hated the way this game was played?

    Anyway a coupld of things of note.

    The Digest was well represented on the overhead jumbotron tonight.

    Our own Duke Dynamite won the chase bank card give away. He cheated.

    Then our own Roaming Gnome was there sitting in his second row seat (I take it another perk of knowing your ticket rep) (same as mine btw who hasn't given me a thing) flashing his big smile during the game for all to see with an extreme closeup.

    For those of you who were worried about attendance to some of the lesser teams games, well you are justified. This was a throwback to last year where you litterally could count peopl in sections in the balcony and they were all but giving away tickets to the lower bowl.

    I guess I should talk about the game...

    I really don't want to honestly as I am trying to block it from my memory.

    Danny Granger was as good as his stats look on paper for those of you who didn't see the game. The odd thing is that I don't think Danny really exerted himself till the end of the game. Which makes me wonder how many points he could have had if he went at it like that in the 2nd & 3rd?

    His points were of course outstanding, however it is everything else he does that just continues to impress me. I think he may be the most rounded player we have ever had on our team that I can remember. There is really nothing he can't do.

    Quis had a very good game till the time he went to the locker room. Very aggressive in the passing lanes and bailed out butts out several times on broken plays. He was hitting the boards pretty good as well.

    Brandon was better than his stats. looked. Defensively he missed a few spots but overall he was very active and had several deflections. His shooting I believe will come and I am still very very high on him.

    Jeff fought the good fight and I felt sorry for him having to carry the load like he had to do.

    Jack.....Call me crazy but for some reason I just want my point guard to have more than 2 assists in 38 min. He was way way way to concerned with getting his own shot up tonight for my taste.

    Rasho... Thank God he can hit an open shot. I have no idea what has happened to him over the past few weeks as he looks old and stiff all of a sudden out there.

    Graham... Ugh... Yes his shots at the end were big and very timely but the guy played 31 min. and stunk in quarters 2 & 3, but I guess he was there when it counted so I can't complain to much.

    Travis....Poor Deiner. Is he ever going to be healthy this year? That airball three was purely and simply because he could not elevate off of his foot. Still faster than most guards out there though and did a decent job in a very limited time frame.

    JOB..... He is just d@mned lucky we won this game. Frankly about the mid way point of the 4th quarter we were behind and IMO we were losing because we were lacking energy and all I could wonder was why in the name of God are we only playing basically 6 people when we could have brought in McBob or Baston for a few min. and give poor Jeff a brake.

    Ugly Ugly game that we should not have struggled this hard to win.

  2. #2
    Member mcampbellarch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Largely sharing your sentiment while looking for bright spots there seemed to be flashes of defense intermittently and in the 4th. I too was looking for McRoberts or Baston to see some time this evening given the pace. Fairly spastic over all, but pretty much what I expected. I enjoy watching the Warriors since they seem to have kind of a retard luck in the same way that people have adrenaline strength and give teams a run for thier money. It is fun to watch and requires neither a great deal of attention at the time nor results in much of an after-taste.

    Regardless, better than that dejected look I saw after the last loss. Just a missed opportunity to practice defense.

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    PROUD 2 B A PACERS FAN! xtacy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    "Overall it was a good team effort. I love run and shoot games. I think that’s the way the game is meant to be played."
    this is why i don't like JOB and don't want him coaching us at least next year. you can beat horrible teams like thunder,warriors,wizards or wolwes with this type of basketball but when it comes to a little better teams like bucks you lose big time.

    a win is a win but when you blow out a lead to warriors and manage to win by some extra performances from one or two players YOU HAVE TO ADMIT YOU ARE NOT GOOD.

    i know there are a lot of JOB lovers on this forum but the basketball he's making this team play is worthless and if we want to be better we need someone that doesn't only tell this team to run and shoot the ball whenever they see the rim. one last thing i know it's early but i hope we don't end up getting a small guy from the upcoming draft. that would kill us entirely.
    Last edited by xtacy; 12-18-2008 at 06:09 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    If you wanted to see scoring, this was the game to watch with 2 coaches who like to score 30-40 points a qtr w/o a smidge of DEFENSE. There was a reason Dick Harter was brought in as an ast. coach, and obviously that reason wasn't put to use last night. To be honest, this game could have gone either way depending on who had the best run at the end of the game. Fortunately for the Pacers and JO'B, it was the Pacers. That comment from JO'B, as far as I'm concerned, about this is the way BB should be played was a sales job to deflect from the lack of "D" played in this game. If the Pacers had lost this game, that statement would never had been made. In one of the last games the Pacers lost, he made the comment to Stacey P. about the Pacers lack of "D". The Pacers win his type of game, and no mention about the lack of "D"? Sorry, but he just reminds me of a used car salesman who will say whatever to make a sale/appease the fans.

    The season is now 30% over and that game, other than a win, accomplished what for the future of this team? It didn't emphasize and teach "D" for the future. Did it teach structure by playing helterskelter? With this seasons pace the Pacers are a 30 win team. Can Bird and JO'B really afford this type of a step backwards in their 2nd year of a 3 year contract? For Bird and JO'B's sake, they had best hope the Simons have plenty of PATIENCE, or they are just laying the groundwork for their successors. JMOAA

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    I'm trying to figure out how an 8-16 team missing two starters is supposed to have an easy win against anybody.

    Of course, the Nelson thing is a little silly, because he actually played a bigger line up than he had in three of the last four games, with Bellinelli replacing the absent BJ Watson. About the only thing he could've

    I'm not pleased with the tendency of the weakside defenders to drop down into the lane. We constantly get burned on ball reversal, and I thought our offense was sloppy. I also think that was a product of both Golden State's tempo, the fact that we were missing two starters, and we were playing a group that isn't even listed among the top 10 5-man units for the Pacers this season (meaning they've played together less than 24 total minutes...probably far less).

    At this point, you take the win and move on.

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    The New Gold Swagger travmil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    I loved last night's game. What I'm trying to figure out is how teams that can barely crack 80 points in 4 quarters are entertaining. I'd rather set fire to my face and put it out with a shovel than watch that.

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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    I did not cheat! LOL

  8. #8
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    I don't mind the track meet, shootout style. I also like half-court, grind-it-out, defensive games. I like to get a variety.

    The reason I thought that game was tought to watch was a combination. As noted, both teams were missing several key guys so there were a lot of guys out there unfamiliar with each other and unfamiliar with seeing lots of minutes. Moreso for us, but even with Nellie's wild rotation tendencies, also GS.

    The second, and more importantly, is that it just seemed like there was not a lot of emotion or intensity on either side until late in the game. Almost as if watching a pick up game (flow and style) after everybody's played four or five already. Flat would be a good term to describe it.

    Of course, I can't complain if it means a win for us. GS is not good, but we had limited player availability and pulled it out so I'll be content and look at the positives: DG, Quis until injured, Rush except FG %, Jack, Graham's timely baskets, Fosters timely rebound, etc.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Peck, you are mixing and matching so many different things that is is difficult for me to disect it all.

    There is a difference between going small, and playing no defense. There is a difference between playing small ball and playing a selfish brand of basketball like Nelson's teams always do. There is a difference between playing small ball and playing run and gun. There is a difference between playing small ball and playing like a Don Nelson team. There is a huge difference.

    I find Nelson's teams offensive to my basketball sensibilities. And yet for the most part I am a huge proponent of playing small. Although my thing is to have 5 quick players on the court at all times. If the quick players are Garnett, Dwight Howard, Amare or even Jeff Foster then I am thrilled. See my thing isn't small - my thing is quick big guys, I have always loved them and always will. Sheed and Ben Wallace back in '04, '05 is what made the Pistons defense impossible to deal with. They were quick athletic big guys who could defend anyone and anywhere on the court.

    But Roy, Rasho and Troy are very slow - and that is why I don't like them. Peck you talk about Dale Davis a lot, I was a huge fan of his and for the time he played he was very active and quick, peck you rave about Paul Milsap and I like him also, but probably for a different reason - I like him because he is aggressive, quick, active, can jump. You like him because he is a big bruiser - I don't see Wes Unseld, I see a very agile and quick player.

    I know I have gotten off topic slightly but I thought I needed to bring this up
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-18-2008 at 09:03 AM.

  10. #10
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    OK, having said that I do agree with you Peck, I hated the game, I don't like run and gun, and you know I hate seeing defense played like that. Remember I loved the 72-70 pacers vs Nuggets game from the '04 season. ( I used to love watching the heat vs Knicks, the pacers vs the Knicks where scroing a basket or even getting a decent shot was quite an accomplishment) I like physical tough hard nosed defense - in fact I love watching the current Celtics play defense. But playing physical defense has nothing to do with being big and slow - McKey back in the day was a very physical defender and he wasn't a big brute.

    Yeah Diener's three was ugly, but he ran the break so well, much better than Ford or Jack. Deiner also runs the halfcourt offense like it is supposed to be run, he moves the ball
    Last edited by Unclebuck; 12-18-2008 at 09:04 AM.

  11. #11
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    The Jarrett Jack low assist questioning came up in the game thread. I agree I'd rather see him with more, but his overall performance was key to our success. In addition to his timely offense/shooting, he's one of the few guys who displayed consistent energy.

    He had some bad passes and like 4 total TOs (not too shabby in 37 min. of that pace/style of game) and his usual handfull of ill-advised drives/shots. However, his positives outweighed the negatives. Also, he had a couple dishes to trailers on the break and/or penetration that the receivers failed to finish.

    While I also would ideally like a higher assist total, we also have to be realistic about the type of player Jack is. He's at about 3 APG this season and a little under 4 APG for his career. He's never been an ultra-creative-passing PG. He's a solid player who can QB the team when needed, decent shooter, good penetrator, physical, decent defender, will board for a PG, can get to the line where he shoots a high %, and can provide minutes at the 2.

    Add to that the fact the OB appears to be emphasizing to him to push the ball and drive the ball to the rim. I think he's got the 100% green light to the extent that OB's willing to accept some of the mistakes if he really commits to constantly pushing the tempo and attacking the rim. Obviously, he doesn't always finish the drives, but he does draw a lot of fouls and the penetration does open up offensive board opportunities.

    So ultimately I believe it's a question of what he is as a player and what he's being encouraged to do by our coaching staff. No he's not among the upper tier of NBA PGs. Then again, he's not even a starting PG. Currently, as our 1st G off the bench, I am quite content with him.
    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

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    It is ka Thankee sai Major Cold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    We won and we are in no position to complain about winning with our record and injuries.

    Here is to Friday and three in a row

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    Administrator Roaming Gnome's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck
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    Then our own Roaming Gnome was there sitting in his second row seat (I take it another perk of knowing your ticket rep) (same as mine btw who hasn't given me a thing) flashing his big smile during the game for all to see with an extreme closeup
    Nope, I have to give the credit to Naptown Seth. He just had knee surgery and was unable to use that wonderful seat last night. Thank you for the ticket!

    Outside of the highlights everyone touched on tonight, the most entertaining point for me was during a free throw attempt. A heckler in the crowd asking Jackson, "Where are we going after the game, Rio?" Jack didn't look over, but he heard it because he got a really wide grin going and leaned over and said something to Jeff Foster. I know it doesn't sound like much, but it was in the moment and pretty funny.
    ...Still "flying casual"
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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Peck, I don't understand why you don't like Jack, he reminds me a lot like Woody. You can never fault for one second their effort. Yes they both make some very questionable decisions. Neither really have any point guard skills. Both are good defenders. I see almost the same player, but Jack is slightly better and is a better shooter. What is the deal

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    100 Miles from the B count55's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    Peck, I don't understand why you don't like Jack, he reminds me a lot like Woody. You can never fault for one second their effort. Yes they both make some very questionable decisions. Neither really have any point guard skills. Both are good defenders. I see almost the same player, but Jack is slightly better and is a better shooter. What is the deal
    I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment...well, I think he's more than "slightly" better of a shooter than Workman.

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    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by count55 View Post
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    I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment...well, I think he's more than "slightly" better of a shooter than Workman.
    My sentence structure wasn't very good, I think Jack is slightly better player overall, but is a better shooter - no qualifiier about being a better shooter

  17. #17

    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    When you have a shoot out against a team that plays little "D" there is a tendency for the assist per basket to be less. There is also a tendency to play to the other teams level. That is why we have been in games vs good teams. I still believe J.Jack has his best basketball in front of him. If anyone remembers Billups was traded 3-4 times before he had his breakout year with the Pistons. I still think this may happen with J.J. The better the team he plays on the better he is going to be. If he were to start for the Pacers I think he would generate Billups type numbers. I'm sure some will disagree with this. If J.J. was starting at point for the Lakers he would be mentioned as an All-Star. I thought he really came through last night. He shoots 45% in previous seasons but is at 40% right now. I expect him to get better as the season goes.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
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    woman without a team
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Look I don't want to be Debbie Downer here, that's Grace's job.
    Go ahead and take it. I'm too busy watching the Bucks lose to the 76ers to worry about how the Pacers are playing.

  19. #19
    Member CableKC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    The first thing I thought of when I read Nellie's comments was that we were the ones that "played down" to the Warriors. The Warriors are a very good Rebounding team due to Biedrins....but with him in foul trouble while playing only 23 minutes and having to resort to Turiaf to man the Center spot.....we still decided to go with a very Small Ball lineup where Foster played 29 minutes and Rasho only played 19 minutes. If you think about it....this means that there were times when had a lineup where we had some GF lineup manning the Frontcourt.

    If anything....despite the slowness of Hibbert or even the energetic play of McRoberts....I could see that they could have made a difference in the paint on the defensive end.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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  20. #20
    You are my Lucifer D-BONE's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by aceace View Post
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    When you have a shoot out against a team that plays little "D" there is a tendency for the assist per basket to be less. There is also a tendency to play to the other teams level. That is why we have been in games vs good teams. I still believe J.Jack has his best basketball in front of him. If anyone remembers Billups was traded 3-4 times before he had his breakout year with the Pistons. I still think this may happen with J.J. The better the team he plays on the better he is going to be. If he were to start for the Pacers I think he would generate Billups type numbers. I'm sure some will disagree with this. If J.J. was starting at point for the Lakers he would be mentioned as an All-Star. I thought he really came through last night. He shoots 45% in previous seasons but is at 40% right now. I expect him to get better as the season goes.
    I think he still has potential to improve. I don't know about to this level, but that would be great.
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    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    I guess I must have been like a giant rat turd in the middle of U.B.'s morning cornflakes.

    Let's digest some of this.

    I think you misunderstand me about Jack, I actually like him, it's just that last night I thought he was reverting to the shooting guard role to much and not looking to establish any form of offense. However to his credit there was not really much stucture to anyones offense last night so this may have to be forgiven. I think a comparison to Woody is fairly accurate although Haywood, just from my memory, was a little more of a pass first point guard. On the other hand I did not give him enough credit for his deflections last night. I don't keep count of this but it seemed like he had his hands on a lot of passes last night.

    It is once again wonderfull to have us go over the big man issue. It's been to long.

    You have always made it sound like I want a front court of Stanley Roberts, Kevin Duckworth and Oliver Miller.

    That is not the case. I want strength and speed, however I do not want my power positions to just be quick. Did you see B. Wright on thier team last night? Honest to God when he stood sideways towards us we could barely see him. That is not the type of player I prefer.

    Obviously Dwight Howard is an extreme case but that is the type of big man I want. Dale Davis if he could shoot would have been the prototypical power forward, however his lack of offense kept him from ever attaining the level of greatness that many wanted.

    But focusing on last nights game a little here, McBob & Baston both fit your mold for what you are wanting in a big man. Why is it that O'Brien refuses to play either of them.

    Once Quis went down with injury and Rush had 5 fouls, did you wonder who JOB was going to use? If it were possible I wonder if he would have just played 4 on 5?

    I understand why Roy didn't play, although I disagree with it, but I understand.

    However McRoberts or Baston should have seen the floor.

    I think the real problem with O'Brien is that he is a walking contridiction. He loves to talk about defense and how that wins games etc., etc., but he wants players that play a certain way on offense and those two types are often in contrast with each other.

    I have to run now but I am sure I will be back for more later.

    Yeah, U.B. and I are debating again.

  22. #22
    NaptownSeth is all feel Naptown_Seth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Then our own Roaming Gnome was there sitting in his second row seat (I take it another perk of knowing your ticket rep)
    What I like is that I've been in that seat several times this year and Peck doesn't mention it once. Gnome hits it one time and he's repping PD. Thanks for caring.
    flashing his big smile during the game for all to see with an extreme closeup.
    so you made the jumbo. I did that once down there. It was the Gilligan's Island look-alike contest and I was Gilligan.


    Also, if you don't want Grace's Debbie you can have my Negative Nancy. Frankly you are crushing me on the negative vibe front, no way I can keep up.


    I'm not pleased with the tendency of the weakside defenders to drop down into the lane. We constantly get burned on ball reversal, and I thought our offense was sloppy.
    This seems to be a growing problem, it's starting to get like last year. I think teams have figured out how to penetrate with where the defense is trying to push them, and that's bringing out those extreme helps once again.

    Recall last year all the corner 3s they gave up because of this.

  23. #23
    Administrator Peck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    so you made the jumbo. I did that once down there. It was the Gilligan's Island look-alike contest and I was Gilligan.


    .



    Gilligan, oh that is too sweet.

    What's funny is I can see it.

  24. #24
    Administrator Unclebuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
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    .


    This seems to be a growing problem, it's starting to get like last year. I think teams have figured out how to penetrate with where the defense is trying to push them, and that's bringing out those extreme helps once again.

    Recall last year all the corner 3s they gave up because of this.
    Yeah, that is the weakness of this defense, always will be. Seemed last night that the weakside defender - often times Rush guarding the foreign guy was over-helping for sure - that was getting frustrating.

    I would have been extremely upset if the Pacers lost last night - without question the most upset yet this season - even with the injuries.

    Peck, I know you hate small ball but unless the big guy you put oin causes the Warriors problems with their defense it isn't going toi help any. Baston doesn't have to be guarded, so we gain nothing on the offensive end, but lose on the defensive end because Baston has no one he can guard (not if he is in their with Jeff) Last night if Jeff could have played 48 minutes that would have been for the best because Rasho was falling behind

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    Wasting Light Hicks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Odd thoughts about the Golden State game...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peck View Post
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    Gilligan, oh that is too sweet.

    What's funny is I can see it.


    And if you were sitting there, you would have been tagged as the Skipper.

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