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Thread: Question about Josh McRoberts

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    Default Question about Josh McRoberts

    First of all hello to everyone,its been awhile since I last posted.

    But living in Cincinnati now I rarely get to see a p's game.But I do still lurk around on here and over-whelmingly I see alot of hype about Josh McRoberts,and I was wondering...why?.

    I mean I never see anything decent in the box score from him.Im wondering if people want to see more of him because its people reaching for something,anything...

    It just seems to me that every year we have one player on our team who is a fringe NBA player and whenever we go through a bad streak of losing everyone throws all of their hopes on a guy who will never get more than 7mpg.

    But maybe im wrong,Like I said I havent been able to watch much pacers games this far so maybe this guy looks like a young Brad Miller or something,can someone please clear this up for me?.
    Last edited by Brian; 12-08-2008 at 10:02 AM.
    LoneGranger33 said
    Agreed. As the members of Guns and Roses once said, "every rose has its thorn".

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    My opinion: he's a savvy, athletic young player who has the potential to be, say, a Jeff Foster with a little better offense.

    In no way can he solve any of our problems this year or the next few.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    He's looked good and everyone knows I like hustle players like him - but I think right now if he were to play more minutes than a few per game he would be exposed pretty badly

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    My opinion: he's a savvy, athletic young player who has the potential to be, say, a Jeff Foster with a little better offense.

    In no way can he solve any of our problems this year or the next few.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
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    He's looked good and everyone knows I like hustle players like him - but I think right now if he were to play more minutes than a few per game he would be exposed pretty badly
    I tend to agree with Buck's view here. I broadly agree with MFan's view, but I take issue with "savvy" as a description. I believe his biggest weakness is that he has to think too much. It's as if he understands the concepts of basketball, but their natural application escapes him, at the moment. You can almost see the wheels turning, and as a result, he's a beat or two behind the game.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    I agree with McKeyFan. On offense, McRoberts is very scrappy, very athletic. He'll scramble for lose balls and find the open man. However, from the looks of things he hasn't quite grasped JOB's defensive schemes yet. I'd rank him as a better Baston with the potential to be a much better Jeff Foster when given time to develop.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    McRoberts has done exceptionally well in his playing, with the exception of his foul trouble. The game always seems to turn around in our favor when he is on the floor.

    One thing I'd like to see from him is for his footing to get a little more solid when he is guarding the post.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Anyone remember Cliff Levingston's role with the Bulls during their first 2 championship years?

    McRoberts may develop into more, but for now, that type of role is what I see for him.

    Levingston's role was to come into the game and change the momentum. He was a momentum changer. His role was to come into the game, play scrappy defense, rebound and get into the heads of the opponent. He couldn't do it for extended minutes, but for 10-12 minutes per game, he was in there doing whatever he could to put the momentum in the Bulls favor. It seemed like whenever the Bulls were down 6-8 points and needed to go on a defense fueled run, Levingston was in the game. Game 4 against the Pistons in the 1990-1991 ECF was Levingston at his best: 10 pts, 8 rbs, 2 stl, 2 blk in 22 min.

    The other role that I think he can fill is guarding some of the more athletic big men.

    But, for now, I think "momentum changer" fits him best. He came into the Lakers game and changed the momentum. Even though he missed that putback dunk, it was fearless, assertive and had no sign of "being on his heels" like some players do when the opposing team is going on a run.
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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    edit - I swear I didn't read JCouts comment before posting. See bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by McKeyFan View Post
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    My opinion: he's a savvy, athletic young player who has the potential to be, say, a Jeff Foster with a little better offense.

    In no way can he solve any of our problems this year or the next few.
    I don't know if I'd call him savvy, but he is productively aggressive much like Foster is, but with more physicality. He bangs people around and is very disruptive. He is a far superior to Jeff when it comes to handling the ball and has brought up his own rebound several times this season.

    He is smoother on offense than Jeff and you could certainly see him taught to be at least as effective as Dale Davis was on offense, capable of having a go-to post score that would force teams to play him at times.

    His issue is that his aggressiveness often equals out of control play and he disrupts his own team as much as the opponent at times. Plus it leads him into a lot of fouls that he could avoid if he toned it down or learned how to turn it on and off.

    To me he makes a perfect progression from Jeff, not unlike Jeff's rebounding focus and defense helped ease the transition from Dale (paired with JO's own contributions of course).

    The main reason I want him to play is that he shakes things up and gives other teams fits like most energy specialists due. If you need to break a slump or sway momentum he's the kind of catalyst to do that. Use him 10 a game in a pair of 5 minute bursts and I think he helps the team quite a bit, while saving the energy of the other bigs for finishing well.
    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 12-08-2008 at 03:09 PM.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    I hadn't thought about all these aspects of savvy. I was mainly remembering a handful of really crafty, almost no-look passes that he's done. At least he seems to be "savvy" in that regard.
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    “People talk about how quiet he [McKey] is, but he’s really been helpful. He gives a lot of insight to players in how to guard certain teams and what their weaknesses are. The whole team listens to him, and it makes my job a lot easier. Having players like him is what pro basketball is all about for me.” —Larry Brown

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    I look at McRoberts the same way I look at Diener.....he's an decent Bench Player that can come in, provide a lot of energy to help change the pace so that the primary rotational players can get some rest, fill a particular role for 10-15 minutes but isn't really good enough to Start or be included in the regular rotation to take significant minutes away from the Big Men in front of him unless one of them gets injured.

    This doesn't mean that I don't think that he shouldn't get minutes in the regular PF/C rotation....it just means that I think that he should be used as "Jeff Foster"-lite to give Rasho/Foster/Murphy some rest.
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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
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    I see alot of hype about Josh McRoberts,and I was wondering...why?.
    He's 6'10" and probably the most athletic player on the Pacers. He is our best ball-handling big, passes the ball well (he would be the best passing big on a few NBA teams), and has a decent jumpshot. He plays with a great deal of energy and enthusiasm and has no aversion to defense. In addition, he's a local kid who's smart and is a good character guy.

    That's why you see the hype.

    One thing that I find quite interesting is that McRoberts has been able to quiet down a lot of the naysayers on this board. When we got him from Portland there was a lot of "McRoberts sucks, he'll be out of the league in 2 years, I hope he never plays a minute this season, etc." talk. Since we've seen him play, the vast majority of that talk has dissapeared and people generally seem to have a positive opinion of him.
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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    McRoberts is a better player than I expected. I agree with Mellifluous and would add that McRoberts has good instincts and court awareness.

    Also, he is not soft...or more accurately, he is not afraid to mix it up and jump into a crowd. It's hard to place his ceiling because of his athleticism, but I would say he has a shot at being another David Lee.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    If you knew nothing of this team nor the NBA draft and you watched both Rush and McRoberts play with the blue & gold, could you honestly tell which one was a lottery pick and which was a second rounder?

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Right now he fills that energy guy role pretty well, although I look at that as more of his basement projection... he will at LEAST be a short spurts energy guy or momentum changer... I would like to think he has more upside than that though given the tools at his disposal. Athletic, has shown some shooting ability, great passing ability, can handle the ball a bit. Given his seemingly good attitude its not hard to believe he could improve quite a bit from where he is right now. hes pretty young and practually a rookie considering almost zero playing time last season.
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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by Quis View Post
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    If you knew nothing of this team nor the NBA draft and you watched both Rush and McRoberts play with the blue & gold, could you honestly tell which one was a lottery pick and which was a second rounder?
    It would not be obvious, but Rush looks like the more well-rounded player. However, he is nearly 2 years older than McRoberts. People need to factor in that McRoberts could be in college right now....and has not had much of a shot in the NBA. He might have been a first round pick had he stayed as long as Rush.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    I think it's the backup QB mentality. Once we really got a glimpse (as it stands now) of McBob in extended minutes, you'd realize he's a backup for a reason. He's a fun player. He's an energy player. But if we saw what the coaches saw in practice, we'd probably look at things a lot differently. McBob has to do his part to make it more difficult for the coach to keep him off the floor.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    I think it's the backup QB mentality. Once we really got a glimpse (as it stands now) of McBob in extended minutes, you'd realize he's a backup for a reason. He's a fun player. He's an energy player. But if we saw what the coaches saw in practice, we'd probably look at things a lot differently. McBob has to do his part to make it more difficult for the coach to keep him off the floor.
    That might be true. However, in the NBA, money makes a lot of the decisions. You don't play an equivalent player...or even a marginally better one...if you are forking out 5-10M/yr for one that plays the same position. That's part of McRoberts' problem. He plays behind Murphy and Foster who will always get the minutes. Maybe Josh is not as good as either, but even if he was, he would be seated on the bench...

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    That might be true. However, in the NBA, money makes a lot of the decisions. You don't play an equivalent player...or even a marginally better one...if you are forking out 5-10M/yr for one that plays the same position. That's part of McRoberts' problem. He plays behind Murphy and Foster who will always get the minutes. Maybe Josh is not as good as either, but even if he was, he would be seated on the bench...
    Do you think contract numbers weigh heaviest on a coach's mind when evaluating talent?

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by QuickRelease View Post
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    Do you think contract numbers weigh heaviest on a coach's mind when evaluating talent?
    No. Evaluating talent and determining who gets on the court are two different things in the NBA. Most assuredly, money does influence who is on the court.

    The coach must balance the need to win games (priority 1) with several factors including the bias to play the athletes for which the owner forks out the most money...when there is no true obvious alternative. Otherwise, it makes the owner look a bit foolish.

    Sometimes you hear people complain about coaches favoring veterans...and letting a promising rookie languish on the bench. Well, money may not always be behind this, but I think sometimes it is.

    Take Troy Murphy. Troy makes nearly 15 times as much money as Josh...more than anyone on the team. He may be our best big, but certainly he is not 15 times as good as McRoberts...but that's not the point. The point is, he will always get the benefit of the doubt over a rookie unless it is obvious the rookie is substantially better. Call it the contract bias. Equivalent is not enough for the new guy to get substantial minutes...

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNGold View Post
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    No. Evaluating talent and determining who gets on the court are two different things in the NBA. Most assuredly, money does influence who is on the court.

    The coach must balance the need to win games (priority 1) with several factors including the bias to play the athletes for which the owner forks out the most money...when there is no true obvious alternative. Otherwise, it makes the owner look a bit foolish.

    Sometimes you hear people complain about coaches favoring veterans...and letting a promising rookie languish on the bench. Well, money may not always be behind this, but I think sometimes it is.

    Take Troy Murphy. Troy makes nearly 15 times as much money as Josh...more than anyone on the team. He may be our best big, but certainly he is not 15 times as good as McRoberts...but that's not the point. The point is, he will always get the benefit of the doubt over a rookie unless it is obvious the rookie is substantially better. Call it the contract bias. Equivalent is not enough for the new guy to get substantial minutes...
    Good points. I just think it's more than contract what's keepin McBob on the pine.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    If you guys think this guy is even remotely capable of being anywhere close to the rebounder Jeff Foster is...you're nuts.

    Jeff averages 13.4 boards per 40 minutes and is 6th all time in offensive rebound rate (since the stat began being kept in 1970). Any comparison of their rebounding chops is a joke. And a lazy one based on proximity and familiarity at that.
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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite MAN_force View Post
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    Right now he fills that energy guy role pretty well, although I look at that as more of his basement projection... he will at LEAST be a short spurts energy guy or momentum changer... I would like to think he has more upside than that though given the tools at his disposal. Athletic, has shown some shooting ability, great passing ability, can handle the ball a bit. Given his seemingly good attitude its not hard to believe he could improve quite a bit from where he is right now. hes pretty young and practually a rookie considering almost zero playing time last season.
    McRoberts needs time. However where he ends up as a player really depends on him.
    Does he have the mental make-up and DESIRE to be a starter in the NBA. I think he has the
    physical tools to be solid with 2-3 years experience under his belt.
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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    If you guys think this guy is even remotely capable of being anywhere close to the rebounder Jeff Foster is...you're nuts.
    I don't think anyone's saying the dude rebounds like Foster, but that he's an "energy player" like Foster.
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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    FWIW....Murphy has .336 boards per minute played thru 19 games. McBob has .295 per minute played. Foster has .246 boards per minute played this year thru 19 games. That's 1,2 and 3 on the team.


    Yes, there's a big difference in minutes. And to some extent, I think the increased emphasis on Foster's offense has reduced his rebounding results. Last year Foster was at .354 per minute for the season. Murphy was at .258/min.

    Oh. McBob has .045 blocks/min thru 19. Granger has .043/min.

    Mind you, that's 44 minutes total for McB (2 blocks).... 647 for Danny (28 blocks). 583 for Murph. 435 for Jeff.

    Not a sufficient sample of minutes for a good judgement on McBob, but maybe a good reason to give him more minutes.
    Last edited by kester99; 12-09-2008 at 12:04 AM.

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    Default Re: Question about Josh McRoberts

    Quote Originally Posted by JayRedd View Post
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    If you guys think this guy is even remotely capable of being anywhere close to the rebounder Jeff Foster is...you're nuts.

    Jeff averages 13.4 boards per 40 minutes and is 6th all time in offensive rebound rate (since the stat began being kept in 1970). Any comparison of their rebounding chops is a joke. And a lazy one based on proximity and familiarity at that.


    true, you cannot compare someone who gets 34 minutes per game , with someone who gets 8 to 10 minutes every 3 to 5 games played

    lol


    Just for an experiment, I would like to have McRoberts actually playing 20 mpg every game for about 10 games .. I can guarantee you that McBob would put up the same numbers, if not better than Foster , given the same amount of minutes on the floor ..

    Maybe I am an optimist, but I think Josh is ALOT better player, and more athletic than ALOT of people give him credit for ..
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    Plumlee reminds me of a young Dale Davis. Good rebounding and he contests shots well on defense and his offensive game is very raw just like DD's was coming out of college.
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